Steve928 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I just wondering if anyone had come up with a foolproof, or nearly foolproof, method of determining whether a French 'C' road is going to be a cruising super-highway or a singletrack nightmare? We tend to plan journeys using the AA's atlases, avoid their white roads, and have had some success with using MAPS.ME's open street map data to check on road widths by seeing when they appear/disappear at certain zoom levels, but still get caught out occasionally. More than occasionally really. Are the Camper satnavs any better in this respect than our standard Nuvi model? Has anyone found a nice online database where you can put in a road number and get its width? :-D Nothing too bad occurred in our first trip this year but last year we ended almost stuck up a real shocker of a diminishing road. Any ways and means out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 The short answer is that any C road is liable to be fairly narrow, and highly unlikely to be "cruising superhighway". These are the communal roads maintained locally, and can, as you say, be single track only. The best source of road width information for French roads that I have found is Michelin maps, and the 1:200,000 scale road atlas (spiral bound best) provides graphic road width information in terms of "dual carriageway", "four lanes" (not stated, but usually no central reservation, so limited to max 90kph), "2 wide lanes", "2 lanes", and "1 lane". Generally, but not in all regions, the "D" roads should be fine. If you know the type of terrain involved, the fairly simple rule of thumb is the hillier it looks, the narrower the roads are likely to be. But I guess you will already have noticed that! :-) AFAIK, no sat-navs give road width guidance, because it has not, hitherto, been electronically mapped. There are really only two providers of electronic mapping, Navteq (now "here maps", owned by Nokia) and TeleAtlas (owned by TomTom). Their mapping underlies almost all the commercially available sat-navs: Garmin using "here". So, the best the "truck" type sat-navs can achieve is to avoid legal width (+ weight etc) restrictions, which are mapped. However, there being miles and miles of narrow roads with no width restrictions, that is not a great deal of help. Their ploy generally seems to be to prioritise major roads to avoid restrictions, and only to use other roads on the final approach to a destination. This can result in perfectly suitable minor roads being avoided, resulting in circuitous routes, but seems the best fail-safe that can presently be offered. I find selecting the "quickest" routing option, and de-selecting toll roads, generally results in a reasonable route. However, when confronted with a closed road or diversion, and so deviating from the device's selected route, they do tend to get in a flap, and may send you down any available cart track to get you back to where it thinks you should be by the shortest available means! This situation spells danger! :-D As you have a Garmin device, have you downloaded either MapSource or BaseCamp from their website? This will allow you to view the mapping on a PC (or a Mac with BaseCamp) so that you can see the detail on a larger screen, and also to play with routing on the computer. What is perhaps more helpful, is that with any screen view you can switch directly to Google Earth at the same location, and so generally into Google Streets, to get a feel for any road that looks dubious. Can be very helpful. Be warned, though, that the routing logic of either program may not match that used by the device itself, resulting in different routes being selected "in the field". I therefore find it of more use to avoid what looks dodgy, than to confirm where the device will, actually, take one. It is also possible, having used either program to plot a route, to transfer that route to the device. However, my experience of this has not persuaded me that it is worthwhile. Too many waypoints on any route can result in great confusion when you meet the inevitable "Route barree" or "Deviation", as the device seeks to navigate back to any now inaccessible waypoint/s until you can pull over and delete it/them from the route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 If the truth is known we have all been there and done that, I now simply look at the road and if I don't like the look of it I drive on and the sat nav works out another route. Often the new route uses the major road and all the sat nav was trying to do was save a couple of metres by cutting the corner. It is useful to have the navigator checking as you drive along but if she has gone to sleep your on your own. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 We too have been through vineyards and down dead ends courtesy of TomTom and the easiest way to alleviate the problem is either by having a smaller van or not using they roads at all! What sometimes starts off as a reasonable width road can degenerate into a not much more than a cart track after a km or two - complete with narrow and/or low bridges - but reversing back a km or so along a narrow twisty road is all part of the fun of being on holiday innit!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Dwight Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Get yourself a good Michelin road atlas. I always say if a farmer and his tractor and trailer can get down it so can I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I think you mean "D" roads, C roads are just plain scarey. We run Autoroute alongside he satnav, the map scaling on Autoroute gives a good idea of road widths it's the most foolproof method we have come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 David Dwight - 2015-06-12 9:45 PM Get yourself a good Michelin road atlas. I always say if a farmer and his tractor and trailer can get down it so can I. I bet you wouldn't say that when the farmer & tractor are are coming straight at you and there is either a ditch or tall hedge on both sides of the 9 ft wide road. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Tracker - 2015-06-12 7:29 PM We too have been through vineyards and down dead ends courtesy of TomTom and the easiest way to alleviate the problem is either by having a smaller van or not using they roads at all! What sometimes starts off as a reasonable width road can degenerate into a not much more than a cart track after a km or two - complete with narrow and/or low bridges - but reversing back a km or so along a narrow twisty road is all part of the fun of being on holiday innit!! I once had to reverse 5 miles back down a road on South Uist, because a bunch of Fly fishermen with what seemed to be 2 Range Rovers each, had completely blocked the 'Turning Place' that I knew existed at the end of a 'long and winding road' I had been down before. The view at the end was breathtaking, But 5 miles of reversing is 'heart stoppingly' tense. But what can you do (apart from ram them into the bog ?) That was in the Starlet 2, wouldnt fancy the same in my Autotrail. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 lennyhb - 2015-06-12 9:55 PM David Dwight - 2015-06-12 9:45 PM Get yourself a good Michelin road atlas. I always say if a farmer and his tractor and trailer can get down it so can I. I bet you wouldn't say that when the farmer & tractor are are coming straight at you and there is either a ditch or tall hedge on both sides of the 9 ft wide road. :D Thats exactly what happened to Andy Stothert, when reversing uphill in his 'not long released' X250 based Nu Venture camper, after vibrating for Gt Britain the gearbox imploded, 'Just a trait of the vehicle' or Driver error ! The reverse gear IS STILL too high for normal reversing (IMO). even after all their 'Fixes'. So, don't get caught having to reverse uphill for too far at least. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean.clarke Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I use Google street view as a double check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 In France or any other Country for that matter I just follow Tom Tom, set to avoid Toll Roads , fastest route , Tom Tom takes me through some beautiful French Countryside and down roads little more than Lanes, my van is 7.5 metres and I have not had any problems, and I do have a reverse gear should I need it, why worry, just go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 http://s358.photobucket.com/user/vindiboy1/media/Granna%20%20Sweden/SDC10057_zps9dbtoxqn.jpg.html Tom Tom took us of road here hee hee loved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Thanks all and yes as Lenny points out I meant 'D' roads. I do indeed use Basecamp and often use Goggle maps & Streetview before we leave home but don't have a mobile contract that allows me to use the latter underway. Generally we leave home having done a lot of research, with pictures of likely aires, enough POIs to sink a ship with favourites marked on Maps.Me on the ipad all around our intended route, but often of course you end up just making it up as you go along. I've been doing a bit of research on the various mapsets available for Garmin devices and though I haven't reached any particular conclusion it may be of interest nevertheless. All the following are rendered in Basecamp on the PC but can be used with pretty much any Garmin device. My Nuvi 2595 renders them in almost exactly the same detail. The first image is from the standard City Navigator mapset installed on most Nuvis etc. We arrived in this village intending to continue south through the hills on the D122 but chickened-out when this mapset showed it as a more minor road than the road from the north that we had arrived on, which was narrow enough. In the second image the OpenStreetMaps mapset (the same as used in Maps.Me and many other free apps) shows it as the same size/classification of road. The third image is perhaps the best mapset available for rural touring in France, Garmin's Topo V3 Pro, which includes much more detail of villages, land use, contours and relief etc. It's fully routable just like City Navigator but doesn't get updated so should only be used out in the sticks. It's from 2012. Again, not much help in determining the road size though. And finally the road itself. Would have been alright if a little tight. No doubt I'd have met this truck with his big wing mirrors :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Whilst I can fully understand the reasoning of those who like to pre plan their trips, we take a very different and simplified approach to all this pre trip research and techo stuff. We don't do any planning other than starting with a general area in mind and we just go where we feel like going when the mood takes us just using our own judgement before turning down what looks like it could be an iffy road - and even that does not stop us trying it if it looks inviting enough! For us not knowing is all part of the sense of fun and adventure that a motorhome gives us and TomTom is a valued friend and navigation aid to be followed when it suits us and not when it doesn't. Having visited so many vineyards, cliffs, rivers and beaches in so many isolated locations over the years we feel a bit cheated if we don't have at least one challenging mini adventure on each holiday trip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 hallii - 2015-06-12 4:26 PM If the truth is known we have all been there and done that, I now simply look at the road and if I don't like the look of it I drive on and the sat nav works out another route. Often the new route uses the major road and all the sat nav was trying to do was save a couple of metres by cutting the corner. It is useful to have the navigator checking as you drive along but if she has gone to sleep your on your own. H Yes to both comments...! I am very wary especially when the SatNav (TomTom) wants me to go across a field! There is nothing more useful than a high degree of common sense, and preparation. we still use paper mapping, and always, especially when as now in France, and follow road signs carefully, as they are a far better guide than some of the 'shortcuts' the TT wants to go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 hallii - 2015-06-12 4:26 PM If the truth is known we have all been there and done that, I now simply look at the road and if I don't like the look of it I drive on and the sat nav works out another route. Often the new route uses the major road and all the sat nav was trying to do was save a couple of metres by cutting the corner. It is useful to have the navigator checking as you drive along but if she has gone to sleep your on your own. H Yes to both comments...! I am very wary especially when the SatNav (TomTom) wants me to go across a field! There is nothing more useful than a high degree of common sense, and preparation. we still use paper mapping, and always, especially when as now in France, and follow road signs carefully, as they are a far better guide than some of the 'shortcuts' the TT wants to go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan k Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 In the last few days we've traversed part of Northern France around Verdun visiting some of the sites on the Champs du Bataile, I thought some of the roads to the forts were a bit iffy for us. if we met anything. Fortunately the full size coaches were in the Bus Park at the fort and we managed to get past the minibus that we met. Later we headed across to Vertus nr Epernay to pick up some of M Collard's excellent Blanc de Blanc champagne, we met when we stopped there about 10 years ago on his French Passion site. Tom Tom led us on a beautiful route across country, we met the real rural France again, Tiny seemingly deserted villages, nobody about in the village every body seemed to be in the fields. Small towns where one still drove through rather than around the interminable roundabouts and bypass, and we stopped at boulangeries and small alimentations. Then after Vertus we again headed across country to St Quentain for the night across some great countryside. It was touring as we remembered from 20 years ago. We have always ignored directions when the road looks too silly to start with and sometimes had to turn around in a field gate when the road has got too much grass in the middle but its not very often in all the years we've been travelling cheers alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Dwight Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Yes been there done it, the tractor and trailer plus the combine harvester, also the herd of cows. But never had a problem reversing, this is the fourth variant of Fiat we have had and not yet had a problem with the reverse gears in 15years of Motorhoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyg3nwl Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Just use a combination of michelin book map and whatever the satnag suggests for main routeing, and then common sense..if it looks possible go for it, and hope you get lucky.. a couple of years ago, we were looking for aire at Aurillac, only to find it was occupied by the market, so followed a minor road for a couple of mile and found a sign fo picnic area..looked possible so tried it..BIG MISTAKE..thought we could make a multy shunt about face...BIGGER MISTAKE.. GOT jammed and couldnet go forward or back..wheelspin forward and grounded on high bank in reverse. off loaded bikes, dumped water to reduce weight, then salvation arrived..a french registered 4 by 4.. towropes deployed and we were pulled sideways over grassy bank and escaped moral, don be so b....y stupid,, if it looks just possible, make sure you towrope is in full working and say a few suitable words to Him who watches from on high.. or in other words engage brain and dont argue with co pilot. great fun trying to explain our predicament in a foreign language. Tonyg3nwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 When doing the 110 point turn in a narrow road its best to always keep the driven wheels on the hard surface. I nearly said blacktop but if its a real back road it can be a lot of other colours including green. Ps. Never mind the grass in the middle its the trees you have to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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