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yoko8pups

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But if you have Gaslow cylinders why not just have the external filler? Even on vans where the gas cupboard is accessed from (say) inside the rear doors an external filler on the gas locker door is much easier to fill through I would have thought.

 

David

 

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If we are talking for refillable bottles, then I should *imagine (*as we don't have refillables), that the gun and hose assembly risks putting stress onto the filler/fittings on the cylinder...?

 

Personally I'd prefer a securely mounted, remote filler point.

 

..but if we're talking of filling up "exchange only" bottles (which don't have 80% cut off safety valves, to prevent overfilling)then don't do it's illegal and dangerous! :-S

 

(sorry Rich, crossed posts)

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JudgeMental - 2015-07-01 2:00 PM

 

Maybe I assumed wrongly it was a non refillable...

 

I'm not sure Eddie..... that's why I added my last "don't do it" bit...

 

Yoko'...you had been enquiring about "Portuguese bottles " and "BP light" bottles...hopefully this adaptor(or similar) wasn't going to be cobbled up to them? :-S

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pepe63 - 2015-07-01 1:55 PM

 

If we are talking for refillable bottles, then I should *imagine (*as we don't have refillables), that the gun and hose assembly risks putting stress onto the filler/fittings on the cylinder...?

 

Personally I'd prefer a securely mounted, remote filler point.

 

..but if we're talking of filling up "exchange only" bottles (which don't have 80% cut off safety valves, to prevent overfilling)then don't do it's illegal and dangerous! :-S

 

(sorry Rich, crossed posts)

 

Good point. Only a fool would try to refill an exchange bottle, but the world is full of fools hell bent on saving every penny whilst risking their own and the safety of others!

 

The pump hose is shown as connected to the Gaslow bottle inlet so on that basis it would not fit on the outlet of an exchange bottle as the two very sensibly are different fittings and a different filler inlet hose is needed to the outlet pigtail as the two are not interchangeable.

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Yes,I realise that they are different Rich..but the likes of ebay used to be awash with "adapters" to fill "exchange" bottles....

(hence my later, "...hopefully this adaptor(or similar) wasn't going to be cobbled up to them? " line...).

 

Recent threads have shown how much faffing about some will go to, just to solve a problem that, for want of a few extra quid, needn't be there in the first place.. ;-)

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pepe63 - 2015-07-01 2:25 PM

Recent threads have shown how much faffing about some will go to, just to solve a problem that, for want of a few extra quid, needn't be there in the first place.. ;-)

 

There are thousands of people in all walks of life with nothing better to do than to provide a solution for a problem that does not exist in the hope of making their fortune.

 

Then they have to work much harder just to devise the problem that they think their solution will solve (lol)

 

Just watch Dragons Den for some outstanding examples of ludicrous - and just a few that are sheer genius!

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yoko8pups - 2015-07-01 7:50 PM

 

Thanks all, I just assumed it was made by gaslow as everything else this firm, Yorkshire Caravans, were selling were Gaslow Bottles and the part was numbered.

 

The part may well have been made by (or more likely supplied to and packaged by) Gaslow but best advice these days seems to be not to fill a gas bottle directly from an lpg pump and I am told that most filling stations will throw a wobbly if they catch you doing it that way instead of via a fixed and secure remote filler inlet point.

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Good point. Only a fool would try to refill an exchange bottle, but the world is full of fools hell bent on saving every penny whilst risking their own and the safety of others!

 

The world is also full of fools who do not understand the filling process resulting in exagerated posts. Illegal it is to refill an exchange bottle, but following a very simply process, not much different to filling a refillable system, there are no more additional dangers.

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RogerC - 2015-07-02 12:13 AM

 

Don't see the reasoning behind it myself.  Surely one of the main reasons for fitting a Gaslow system is to 'stop' the need to lug heavy bottles around?  

 

caravanners, who wish to make use of cheaper LPG sources can use a cyclinder called Safefill which is a direct fill refillable bottle....there is even a website with filling points that are happy to allow the filling of these....

 

they are very popular and stock of them is really low....

 

it looks to me as though, by using this adaptor, a caravanner might purchase a Gaslow cylinder and use it as as 'safefill' one....

 

caravanners do not want a fixed system in their caravans as pulling up,to the LPG pum while towing can be a bit hairy....so they are often happy to sling the tank in the back of the car and drive to an LPG pump...

 

I cant comment on the integrity of this adaptor but I can see the market....its not for motorhomers.

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sshortcircuit - 2015-07-02 12:44 AM

 

The world is also full of fools who do not understand the filling process resulting in exagerated posts. Illegal it is to refill an exchange bottle, but following a very simply process, not much different to filling a refillable system, there are no more additional dangers.

 

Disagree...without the 80% cut off valve of a "refillable", there is the very real-world risk of over filling..

 

Filling a totally empty exchange bottle may be one thing but in reality, once they have an "adaptor", the temptation will be for folk to "top up" their partially used one ( After all,why would they wait 'til they've run out, when they feel they can "fill up" at any time?)...and as for MHs, as more than likely it'd still be strapped in their gas locker (and therefore, it wouldn't have been weighed),they'd have absolutely no idea of how much gas they should be putting in...

 

So there ARE obviously additional dangers..

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pepe63 - 2015-07-02 8:25 AM

 

sshortcircuit - 2015-07-02 12:44 AM

 

The world is also full of fools who do not understand the filling process resulting in exagerated posts. Illegal it is to refill an exchange bottle, but following a very simply process, not much different to filling a refillable system, there are no more additional dangers.

 

Disagree...without the 80% cut off valve of a "refillable", there is the very real-world risk of over filling..

 

Filling a totally empty exchange bottle may be one thing but in reality, once they have an "adaptor", the temptation will be for folk to "top up" a partially used (why would they wait 'til they've run out, when they feel they can "fill up" at any time?)...and as for MHs,more than likely it'd still be strapped in their gas locker,(and therefore, wouldn't have been weighed),they'd have absolutely no idea of how much gas they should really be putting in...

 

So there ARE obviously additional dangers..

 

I have read in the "real-world" of faulty 80% cut off valves failing and the user oblivious to the consequences continuing to fill until the pump stops, at 100% fill, now that is dangerous so there ARE dangers. The delivery valve on the refillable system should be closed when refilling otherwise excessive pressures can be put on the regulator. How many on refill do not close this valve, a danger not associated with filling an exchange bottle?

I will agree those that top up haphazardly do present a risk and are stupid however filling an "empty" cylinder, following a slow moving pump meter is not difficult and stoping prior to the required level is not difficult as a known quantity of gas is used.

I am not advocated the filling of exchange bottles but showing there could be more dangers associated with a refillable system

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A "Direct Fill” adapter has been marketed by Gaslow for quite some time (see link)

 

http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/cyujrhdmmu67.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/cyujrhdmmu67/Categories/Cylinders/Buy_Now

 

It can be purchased alone (quoted price £17.87) or as part of a Gaslow R67-bottle Direct Fill Cylinder Kit. In the latter case the bottle + adapter will cost about £5 more than the cost of just the bottle. (Example - R67 11kg bottle = £165.00, R67 11kg bottle Direct Fill Cylinder Kit = £169.99). The price of a Gaslow Remote Filler Kit is quoted as "from £79.95”

 

Although it’s been easy enough to obtain adapters that permit filling of canisters with the UK-standard POL female outlet (eg. standard Calor UK propane bottles) these won’t fit on the type of male filler-inlet used on user-refillable bottles like the Gaslow-marketed products.

 

Although a remote filler inlet is certainly least ‘controversial’ when it comes to in-situ refilling of a motorhome’s refillable gas-bottle, fitting the inlet will normally involve leading the filler hose out of the vehicle’s gas-locker. This may not be simple to achieve and a good many motorcaravanners have chosen to install the filler inlet on a bracket within the locker itself. Even this stategy may be challenging, though, if space within the locker is tight.

 

For motorhomes, the Direct Fill Adapter should perhaps be considered an alternative to installing a remote filler inlet within the locker. In both cases the locker’s door will need to be opened to carry out bottle-refilling, but the adapter takes up little space, requires no effort to install, is a lot cheaper than a remote filler kit and the refilling procedure is no different.

 

Plainly (as pepe63 suggests) the autogas gun and hose assembly will ‘hang’ on the Gaslow bottle’s filler-inlet during refilling, but the inlet is pretty substantial. I’ve chosen to install a Gaslow R67 11kg bottle Direct Fill Cylinder Kit in my Rapido motorhome and I can’t say ‘stressing’ of the filler-inlet during refilling concerns me. However, I did find that the adapter needs to be screwed VERY tightly on to the bottle’s filler-inlet (the joint is metal-to-metal) to avoid leakage during refilling.

 

The Gaslow adapter itself has an outer UK-norm bayonet section that can be unscrewed and be replaced by a screw-in ‘foreign’ autogas-gun adapter, or the bayonet section can be left in place and the ‘foreign' autogas-gun adapter screwed into the bayonet section’s internally threaded end.

 

Details of Gaslow Direct Fill Cylinders and advice/caveats on refilling them are here

 

http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/cyujrhdmmu67.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/cyujrhdmmu67/Categories/Cylinders

 

An alternative ‘direct fill’ canister (made by the Polish company GZWM) that includes several filling adapters is advertised here

 

http://www.lpgshop.co.uk/refillable-gas-bottle-for-motorhomes/

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I know there is a group looking now at refillable LPG systems with a view to setting some basic standards for safety, installation etc. as, stance as it may seem, there are not too many enforceable regulations at present. it would be interesting to hear what Chrus Wise of Autigas 2000 has to say on this inject as I believe he is also on this group.

 

David

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I'm grateful to hear everyones opinions. I have lived part of the year in Portugal for 20 years and traveled extensively, my problem is that I have never seen a caravan or motorhome dealer here. I bought my motorhome in England and have a perfectly safe UK bottle in there at the moment. That will last until I go back in September/October as we won't need heating. I think I have made up my mind to wait until I go back, take an empty one of my light BP bottles and ask Highbridge motors (my nearest dealer) for their advice. I would like to use a light bottle for weight reasons but I am also very cautious so not about to do anything in a hurry. I'll just keep reading the posts so I can make an informed decision.
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sshortcircuit - 2015-07-02 8:42 AM

 

I will agree those that top up haphazardly do present a risk and are stupid however filling an "empty" cylinder, following a slow moving pump meter is not difficult and stoping prior to the required level is not difficult as a known quantity of gas is used.

 

 

But that's the point SS', some folk WILL "top up haphazardly"...

 

Regs / rules / laws etc are, amongst other reasons, there to save us from the "Stupids" of this world ..(and the stupider folk are, they less likely there are to realise it! :-S )

 

..and with that in mind, when it comes to an open forum, I'd rather err on the side of caution, and say it's a no-no, rather that state that "there are no additional dangers"?...

 

I wouldn't trust some folk to put air in their tyres!.. :-S

 

Sorry Yoko' I crossed your post

Are these of any interest?

http://www.autogas.co.uk/alugas-cylinders.htm

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And I think you should bear in mind that those with automatic cut offs should also not top up haphazardly as systems do go faulty and to rely solely on the equipment shutting off is foolhardy. You should be able to assess your requirements for an empty cylinder and therefore appreciate when it should cut-off. Those that top up whenever they can, even if the do not need to, well, they would never no and could overfill which means there are dangers.
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yoko8pups - 2015-07-02 11:10 AM

 

I'm grateful to hear everyones opinions. I have lived part of the year in Portugal for 20 years and traveled extensively, my problem is that I have never seen a caravan or motorhome dealer here. I bought my motorhome in England and have a perfectly safe UK bottle in there at the moment. That will last until I go back in September/October as we won't need heating. I think I have made up my mind to wait until I go back, take an empty one of my light BP bottles and ask Highbridge motors (my nearest dealer) for their advice. I would like to use a light bottle for weight reasons but I am also very cautious so not about to do anything in a hurry. I'll just keep reading the posts so I can make an informed decision.

 

Very sensible yoko, also, the company Pepe has provided a link to for Alugas (light weight) cylinders happens, I believe, to be the same Autogas 2000 that Chris Wise runs who I mentioned earlier. He is very knowledgeable and helpful so it may be worth your while seeking his advice on the various options/pitfalls.

 

David

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yoko8pups - 2015-07-02 11:10 AM

 

I'm grateful to hear everyones opinions. I have lived part of the year in Portugal for 20 years and traveled extensively, my problem is that I have never seen a caravan or motorhome dealer here. I bought my motorhome in England and have a perfectly safe UK bottle in there at the moment. That will last until I go back in September/October as we won't need heating. I think I have made up my mind to wait until I go back, take an empty one of my light BP bottles and ask Highbridge motors (my nearest dealer) for their advice. I would like to use a light bottle for weight reasons but I am also very cautious so not about to do anything in a hurry. I'll just keep reading the posts so I can make an informed decision.

 

There is no obvious reason to believe that the UK gas-bottle you currently use in your Hymer motorhome is any more safe than the “Gas Light” bottle you use domestically in Portugal, or (looking through the other end of the telescope) that a Portugal-marketed “Gas Light” bottle can be considered ‘safe’ when used domestically, but somehow ‘unsafe’ when used in a leisure vehicle.

 

The burning question (and one that I believe no forum member is in a position to answer) is whether the “Gas Light” bottle you use domestically in Portugal differs from the “Gas Light” bottle available in the UK.

 

The UK “Gas Light” bottle contains propane and has an outlet that accepts either a 27mm clip-on propane regulator or a 27mm clip-on ‘full pressure’ connector. You have not said whether the gas in your Portugese “Gas Light” bottles is propane or butane, nor what type of outlet the Portugese “Gas Light” bottle has. If the Portugese “Gas Light” bottle contains butane, a butane regulator should be used. If it does not have the type of outlet that accepts the 27mm clip-on regulator/connector used with UK “Gas Light” bottles, a different type of regulator/connector will be required. On-line comments suggest that “Gas Light” bottles are marketed in Portugal containing butane, and that Portugese gas-bottles generally may use the 27mm clip-on arrangement or the ‘jumbo’ regulator/connector used in Spain. You have the Portugese “Gas Light” bottles: surely you must know what gas is in them and what type of outlet they have?

 

GOOGLE indicates that there are caravan/motorhome businesses in Portugal - just not that many.

 

http://www.campervanlife.com/locations/europe/portugal/camping-shops

 

Any of these should be able to help regarding using your Portugese “Gas Light” bottles in your motorhome and, because they are likely to be familiar with that gas container, ought to be in a better position than Highbridge to advise. Highbridge could undoubtedly tell you how a UK-marketed “Gas Light” bottle can be used in your motorhome, could tell you from where any bits needed could be obtained and could carry out the necessary work - but that’s easy. Whether Highbridge could advise on using your Portugese “Gas Light” bottles is another matter.

 

It seems to me that using your Portugese “Gas Light” bottles in your motorhome is a separate issue to deciding whether or not to fit a user-refillable gas-bottle system. It OUGHT to be simple and safe to utilise your “Gas Light” bottles in your Hymer and cost little effort and money to achieve this. But you MIGHT only be able to exchange your Portugese bottles within Portugal.

 

Fitting any user-refillable gas-bottle system would cost considerably more, but you should then be able to refill the system at any outlet selling ‘autogas’ in any country you happen to be travelling in. If you wanted a lightweight user-refillable bottle that’s easy to fit, you might consider the “Safefill” bottle (mentioned above)

 

http://www.safefill.co.uk/our-cylinders.html

 

which now appears to involve the same container as the “Gas Light” one, but with a special outlet valve and the capability to accept (expensive) specialized refilling adapters. Previous (2012) discussion here:

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/safefill-Refillabe-gas-bottles/29480/#M339750

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