pepe63xnotuse Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 JudgeMental - 2015-07-14 9:23 AM ... When I view a house and intend to make an offer, I knock up the neighbors and introduce ourselves.. Blimey Eddie, you southerners aren't shy are you!, personally I'd probably introduce myself first.... (lol) We've moved house in the last year and decent, ample and *easy to access parking was paramount on our list of must haves (* there's little point in good parking, if it gets scuppered each time a neighbour has a visitor!). There are no covenants where we've ended up but the driveway passes right down the side of the house, so any larger vehicle can be parked well behind the building line and hidden behind large double gates/doors anyway. Off Topic; When first looking around, "house hunting" even around older areas that we thought we knew, it struck us just how "claustrophobic" some residential streets had become (...and covenants or not, sheeted up caravans and large CB motorhomes, plonked on their front gardens certainly didn't help "the look" of a street). Once, there may've been an "airy" street of 3-4 bed houses, with a driveway and maybe a carport each, but now, the carport has been turned into a garage (..which gets filled with cr*p, so the car has to now stay on the drive'), the kiddies "need" more room so, an extension gets plonked above the garage, which also gets extended forwards, to encompass a porch, thus shortening the drive'; still further. The front garden gets block paved, so an additional car can be "shoehorned" under the lounge window... ..and by which time the kids have grown up(but can't afford to leave home)so we add another couple of cars into the mix.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 timabob - 2015-07-14 9:05 AM Unfortunately many new developments still contain the "no caravans" restrictive covenants. There is of course scope to argue that motorhomes are not caught by this covenant, but it will depend upon the judge to interpret the covenant and as I've said before, there have been recent cases where the courts have decided that motorhomes are "caravans" for this purpose. Surely the sensible approach is to talk to neighbours and get their consent if you have such a covenant. If you can't get consent then off site storage must be the way to go. IMO these are important points. Timabob says new developments "still" have restrictive covenants, as though it may be a dying practise. In my experience all new developments (except for a few that are very small), have such covenants. Those I have seen are not just drafted as between the buyer and the developer, but so that each buyer covenants with the developer [RED]and all other buyers[/RED]. Where the developer is included, his involvement often terminates when the last house is sold, or when the single development entity is wound up. You cannot just get neighbours' consents to turn blind eyes to these, because anyone, wherever on the development they live, is entitled to ask for the covenant to be upheld. To get these covenants set aside you would have to get the deeds to every house altered to omit the covenant. I even saw a prohibition that included keeping such vehicles "anywhere on the premises", where the definition of "premises" included the garage - so legally, you couldn't even keep your boat or caravan etc. in your own garage! Daft, of course, and probably unworkable, but it pays to read the lot to be sure. Who wants the mess! Historic covenants are an entirely different matter, though even then not necessarily easy to have set aside. The conveyancer should go through the covenants in detail, and explain what they mean. Unfortunately, many do not. The buyer, especially a buyer wanting to park a motorhome, should read the deeds in detail, and press the conveyancer to explain anything that is unclear. Unfortunately, again, many do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrypartridge Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Judge? Court? Won't happen. Once the development has sold out the developer loses all interest in who parks what where. All me a***e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Don't forget you can get the deeds from the Land Registry. You need the full set which costs £10 and includes restrictions and covenants. We have done on about 3 occasions for properties we were interested in. The Estate Agents and vendors are sometimes a bit vague on these issues. So it has cost us £30 but it is much better to establish any issues early and much cheaper than only finding out at contract exchange. We use our van through the year for days out as well as holidays and if we can't park it on the property then we are not interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 henrypartridge - 2015-07-14 9:02 PM Judge? Court? Won't happen. Once the development has sold out the developer loses all interest in who parks what where. All me a***e You may well think that but it only takes one disgruntled neighbour out of the entire development governed by the same covenant to make it an issue. So it all comes down to 'do ya feel lucky', and speaking personally it just ain't worth the risk or the worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Does anyone know of any case that has gone to Court for a breach of a Covenant relating to any condition? If the Covenant was set by local authority that is easily enforceable but for the rest which are imposed by developers and landowners are probably very difficult, and certainly very expensive, to enforce. In my locality many properties have Covenants, in addition to banning caravans, boats and trailers, have a clause restricting the height of trees and shrubs to 6 ft so as to ensure sea views are maximised. I doubt whether a single property in my road has adhered to this Covenant despite the fact the loss of a view impacts substantially on property values. I think people are getting too worked up over Covenant conditions. It would take a person with deep pockets to challenge a breach of Covenant through legal channels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Probably many never get as far as a court case. What would you do if you received a letter from a Solicitor pointing out that you were in breach of a covenant and must therefore move the vehicle, wouldn't need more than 30 mins solicitor time so would not cost anyone very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 graham - 2015-07-16 7:55 PM Probably many never get as far as a court case. What would you do if you received a letter from a Solicitor pointing out that you were in breach of a covenant and must therefore move the vehicle, wouldn't need more than 30 mins solicitor time so would not cost anyone very much. I would seek advice from a solicitor asking about the likliehood of the matter being taken any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Mike88 - 2015-07-16 8:01 PM graham - 2015-07-16 7:55 PM Probably many never get as far as a court case. What would you do if you received a letter from a Solicitor pointing out that you were in breach of a covenant and must therefore move the vehicle, wouldn't need more than 30 mins solicitor time so would not cost anyone very much. I would seek advice from a solicitor asking about the likliehood of the matter being taken any further. Which of his answers would you prefer...? (lol) a) Highly likely (..with it's accompanying hefty legal bill)? b) Unlikely (..but only ascertained after running up a slightly less-hefty legal bill)?... c) No chance what so ever (..but resulting in p*ssed off neighbour(s)..) ? Although I suppose how serious covenants should be taken, does all depend if you're the motorhome/caravan owner or the neighbour of one....? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 pepe63 - 2015-07-16 8:29 PM Mike88 - 2015-07-16 8:01 PM graham - 2015-07-16 7:55 PM Probably many never get as far as a court case. What would you do if you received a letter from a Solicitor pointing out that you were in breach of a covenant and must therefore move the vehicle, wouldn't need more than 30 mins solicitor time so would not cost anyone very much. I would seek advice from a solicitor asking about the likliehood of the matter being taken any further. Which of his answers would you prefer...? (lol) a) Highly likely (..with it's accompanying hefty legal bill)? b) Unlikely (..but only ascertained after running up a slightly less-hefty legal bill)?... c) No chance what so ever (..but resulting in p*ssed off neighbour(s)..) ? Although I suppose how serious covenants should be taken, does all depend if you're the motorhome/caravan owner or the neighbour of one....? ;-) I was talking about Covenants in general and not specifically motorhomes. However, earlier on this thread I have said that I would not park a motorohome at home unless it could be done unobtrusively. Fortunately I have plenty of room. However, comments such as not buying a home because there is a Covenant doesn't fit well with me as many properties can accommodate a motorhome without affecting neighbouring properties even though there is a Covenant preventing such use. I have also said previously that just about every house in my road has a boat parked on their property in contravention of a Covenant as well as motorhomes yet nobody has objected as far as I know. The point I was making was that in the majority of cases Covenants are ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Squatters rights apply after 12 years undisputed occupation of land but does the same principle apply to a covenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Mike88 - 2015-07-16 9:07 PM pepe63 - 2015-07-16 8:29 PM Mike88 - 2015-07-16 8:01 PM graham - 2015-07-16 7:55 PM Probably many never get as far as a court case. What would you do if you received a letter from a Solicitor pointing out that you were in breach of a covenant and must therefore move the vehicle, wouldn't need more than 30 mins solicitor time so would not cost anyone very much. I would seek advice from a solicitor asking about the likliehood of the matter being taken any further. Which of his answers would you prefer...? (lol) a) Highly likely (..with it's accompanying hefty legal bill)? b) Unlikely (..but only ascertained after running up a slightly less-hefty legal bill)?... c) No chance what so ever (..but resulting in p*ssed off neighbour(s)..) ? Although I suppose how serious covenants should be taken, does all depend if you're the motorhome/caravan owner or the neighbour of one....? ;-) I was talking about Covenants in general and not specifically motorhomes. However, earlier on this thread I have said that I would not park a motorohome at home unless it could be done unobtrusively. Fortunately I have plenty of room. However, comments such as not buying a home because there is a Covenant doesn't fit well with me as many properties can accommodate a motorhome without affecting neighbouring properties even though there is a Covenant preventing such use. I have also said previously that just about every house in my road has a boat parked on their property in contravention of a Covenant as well as motorhomes yet nobody has objected as far as I know. The point I was making was that in the majority of cases Covenants are ignored. Sorry if my post came over as if I was having a "dig" Mike, that wasn't my intension... (..reading it back now, I can see how it could've come over that way). :$ I agree in that I don't think that I'd totally dismiss an "ideal" house purely on the grounds of a covenant, not if that house had provision to park the vehicle well out of view and especially if others in the street were already "unobtrusively" parking similar vehicles.... Having said that, I suppose it only takes one, possibly jealous, busy-body to kick up a fuss?... :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 But, as I was trying to argue earlier, it is necessary to read and understand the nature of the particular covenant, and who you covenant with, before you buy. Not all covenants are equal. It's a bit like dogs. A dog is just a dog, right? From Chihuahua to Pyrenean Mountain Dog via Mastiff? Really? Some posts are obviously based on personal experience, but perhaps of only a limited number (one?) of covenants. Using such experience as a springboard for advising others on what to do under "their" covenant, may well mislead. There is, really, no such thing as "covenants in general", they are all individual, and need to be evaluated individually. And absolutely do not rely on a conveyancer, even if employed by a firm of solicitors, to warn you about their presence or intent. Ask if they exist, get copies, read, and then ask for their meaning and possible impact for parking a motorhome to be explained. Motorhomes are large, usually white, boxes, that many people find intrusive and offencive, and if your property has covenants with teeth, and especially if the covenants are mutually binding on all residents, you only need one such resident to invoke the clause to find yourself having to put your van into storage, instead of parking it on your property. My advice to anyone would be to treat "covenants" with great caution where motorhomes are involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Brian Kirby - 2015-07-17 12:20 PM Motorhomes are large, usually white, boxes, that many people find intrusive and offencive, and if your property has covenants with teeth, and especially if the covenants are mutually binding on all residents, you only need one such resident to invoke the clause to find yourself having to put your van into storage, instead of parking it on your property. My advice to anyone would be to treat "covenants" with great caution where motorhomes are involved. Which is why I wouldn't even entertain a property with such covenants, as its probably pretty indicative of the what the neighbours will be like :D ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 No covenants down our road and I ran a business here for some 40 years with many callers everyday. It was never noisy but I did occasionally have big trucks delivering steel. If it was going to be that intrusive I would arrange delivery elsewhere and collect in small bites. To assist in getting on with the neighbours I paid for various home goodies to show I was considerate, even the law enforcement visited from the council following a complaint, he decided that the complainant was a nuisance and always complaining and I was to old to upset. I was perhaps also fortunate that this was all around the reign of Mrs Thatcher who urged everyone to do odd things in odd places. I did park a great big white M/H on the drive for 6 years but it was hidden on one side by a high hedge. I did also have several pluses, I was the eldest in the road and had lived there from new and had just been sacked from a long time employer. I'm still there and everyone is well behaved with a good mix of talent. 4 different bus routes, a rail station 2 miles, an airport 3 miles, open country 1/4 mile, south coast 23 miles. I think the moving house answer is to chose similar people to yourselves and that's where Eddie scores by talking first. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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