Using 2 bays to park

[Will86]

Talking to a Town Council Warden this week. He says the law is one bay one vehicle one ticket. Buying 2 tickets is unlawful. BUT ... he says there's a High Court case pending at this moment that's making a ruling one way or 'tother.

 

He also said that buying 2 tickets to extend the time is also unlawful. I did that recently as the machine I used miss-functioned. I wrote on the ticket that the machine was at fault. I queried this with the parking patrol who were not interested.

 

So I presume there are adjustments that can be accepted.

[Brock]

Many car parks tell you to buy a ticket for every bay you use is two tickets for two bays.

 

I have not know anyone buy two tickets to extend their stay.

[sheer lunar-see]

NEVER have the problem over here in France, very rare that you even have to pay for parking, let alone two tickets for a campervan, so when they charge 10euros for a space on a aire including electric and water, who cares, sounds cheap don't it !!!! How much do you pay for your 2 tickets just for the day? no overnighting. Then there's your road tax, how much is that now? Zero, over here.

[starvin marvin]

Tesco and Saino's could make some money if they charged for folks taking two spaces!!

[zombies]

sheer lunar-see - 2015-07-16 9:37 PM

 

NEVER have the problem over here in France, very rare that you even have to pay for parking, let alone two tickets for a campervan, so when they charge 10euros for a space on a aire including electric and water, who cares, sounds cheap don't it !!!! How much do you pay for your 2 tickets just for the day? no overnighting. Then there's your road tax, how much is that now? Zero, over here.

 

Hmm, I don't think free parking and no road tax is a reason for living in France.

 

Cars are more expensive and there's is a co2 tax when bought

toll roads.

 

Plus n minuses everywhere

[LordThornber]

Adjustments, yes Will.

 

Went to a machin, it was faulty so I wrote as such in large print on paper and stuffed it in the windscreen. I included my mobile number too.

 

On return a warden was just arriving at my car, well done Sir he said, not in any way patronising either. Thanks for using your common sense and bringing the fault to our attention.

 

Oh for that attitude more often 8-)

 

Martyn

[candapack]

LordThornber - 2015-07-17 9:31 AM

 

Adjustments, yes Will.

 

Went to a machin, it was faulty so I wrote as such in large print on paper and stuffed it in the windscreen. I included my mobile number too.

 

On return a warden was just arriving at my car, well done Sir he said, not in any way patronising either. Thanks for using your common sense and bringing the fault to our attention.

 

Oh for that attitude more often 8-)

 

Martyn

 

I did that self same thing once, but my warden said I should have found another machine. >:-(

[Derek Uzzell]

A cursory GOOGLE-search

 

https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=motorhome+two+bays

 

indicates that it’s common enough practice for town councils to specify a ‘one ticket per bay used’ parking policy for vehicles that are too long to fit into a single bay or are towing a trailer.

 

The idea that buying two tickets if two (presumably end-to-end) bays are to be occupied by a longish vehicle can be considered generally ‘unlawful’ is plainly nonsense when councils are specifying that this should be done. However, if a car park’s regulations stipulate that a vehicle must fit into a single bay and a motorhome owner chooses park in two bays and buys two tickets on the assumption that doing so is universally acceptable, it’s easy to see that this might result in legal wrangling.

[derek500]

As with yellow lines etc. is it wheels or overhang that need to fit in the bay?

[colin]

derek500 - 2015-07-18 9:09 AM

 

As with yellow lines etc. is it wheels or overhang that need to fit in the bay?

 

On the NI website and the parking attendant I spoke to in Devon say it's the wheels, since then I've parked at several places just managing to get the wheels in one bay and had no problems although it does leave any bay behind almost unusable except by maybe a smart car.

[Barryrj]

Hi court case! The world's gone mad. Not much common sense about especially from the 'authorities'. Could be depressing if you let it get to you.

[breakaleg]

I parked the van in Bridgnorth once and asked the attendant,she said that as long as the wheels were in the marked bay you were parked correctly.

But most car parks have a weight limit sometimes in hundredweight and others a maximum of one and a half ton, but never been booked in my 3.5 ton van. yet.

but there must be a lot of cars heavier than one and a half ton , isn't there?

Pete

[Guest Joe90]

The problem seems to be there is no universal rule, I enquired about parking my van directly with the council parking control on the Isle of White when we briefly considered going there to visit friends, they were adamant that the entire vehicle had to be within one bay with zero overhang into the next, both in car parks, and on street parking, otherwise a fixed penalty could be issued.

 

Personally I can't be arsed to keep trying to establish what every single councils policy is, and just reinforces the ridiculous hoops one has to go through in the UK with a Motorhome, and one of the main reasons we don't bother full stop.

 

I well remember one poster that had a fixed penalty issued for overhanging the bay, he had taken a picture of the "offence" and posted it on here, or maybe another forum, his was the only vehicle in the car park.

[George Collings]

If you ever get a ticket for being over the 1500kg weight limit. Take pics of all the 4X4 vehicles with their VRMs and ask if they have been ticketed. Authorities must must not discriminate.

[derek500]

colin - 2015-07-18 9:26 AM

 

derek500 - 2015-07-18 9:09 AM

 

As with yellow lines etc. is it wheels or overhang that need to fit in the bay?

 

On the NI website and the parking attendant I spoke to in Devon say it's the wheels, since then I've parked at several places just managing to get the wheels in one bay and had no problems although it does leave any bay behind almost unusable except by maybe a smart car.

 

We were in Appledore (Devon) a few weeks ago and the car park rules said the whole vehicle including the overhang must be within the bay.

 

The car park was almost empty, but our 6m panel van didn't fit. The wheels did.

 

I telephoned the council, explained our predicament and they took our registration number and said thry would phone the car park operatives to tell them not to ticket us.

 

Madness!!

[colin]

breakaleg - 2015-07-18 12:27 PM

 

I parked the van in Bridgnorth once and asked the attendant,she said that as long as the wheels were in the marked bay you were parked correctly.

But most car parks have a weight limit sometimes in hundredweight and others a maximum of one and a half ton, but never been booked in my 3.5 ton van. yet.

but there must be a lot of cars heavier than one and a half ton , isn't there?

Pete

 

This I believe to be the load capacity of the van, i.e. a 30cwt van is a 3.5t van, but you would need to check with the council, and good luck with that as in my experience whomever you speak to is likely to just give their opinion without having a clue as to what they are talking about.

[George Collings]

The old 30 cwt was unladen weight and roughly equivalent to a 3.5 ton maximum permitted total gross vehicle.

As there is no legal requirement for the ULW to appear on the registration document of a motorcaravan its impossible for a LA to prove its over the 30cwt rule if that the one signed. The onus of proof lies with the prosecution and supplying the ULW is not compulsory.

[Keith T]

sheer lunar-see - 2015-07-16 9:37 PM

 

NEVER have the problem over here in France, very rare that you even have to pay for parking, let alone two tickets for a campervan, so when they charge 10euros for a space on a aire including electric and water, who cares, sounds cheap don't it !!!! How much do you pay for your 2 tickets just for the day? no overnighting. Then there's your road tax, how much is that now? Zero, over here.

 

yes, agreed, no problems in France, In fact why not follow the French MH drivers, and do what they do in many hypermarkets, by taking 4 spaces, or even parking across the lines rather than in them!! Oddly though some Hypermarkets now have height barriers which precludes MHs from even getting in.....and certainly many of the fuel stations there are not the easiest for MHs.

[Guest Peter James]

Joe90 - 2015-07-18 2:10 PM

 

The problem seems to be there is no universal rule, I enquired about parking my van directly with the council parking control on the Isle of White when we briefly considered going there to visit friends, they were adamant that the entire vehicle had to be within one bay with zero overhang into the next, both in car parks, and on street parking, otherwise a fixed penalty could be issued.

 

Personally I can't be arsed to keep trying to establish what every single councils policy is, .

 

I think thats one of the results of the British Governments policy of devolving powers to local authorities, who are only accountable to local people. As well as being a Nimby's charter to ensure no housing, roads etc gets built, it encourages a policy of fleecing visitors with parking charges etc to reduce the council tax for locals.

[Guest Peter James]

starvin marvin - 2015-07-16 10:08 PM

 

Tesco and Saino's could make some money if they charged for folks taking two spaces!!

 

But car parking charges would discourage people from shopping at their store, the reason they built the car park.

[Guest Peter James]

Keith T - 2015-07-19 11:14 AM

 

sheer lunar-see - 2015-07-16 9:37 PM

 

NEVER have the problem over here in France, very rare that you even have to pay for parking, let alone two tickets for a campervan, so when they charge 10euros for a space on a aire including electric and water, who cares, sounds cheap don't it !!!! How much do you pay for your 2 tickets just for the day? no overnighting. Then there's your road tax, how much is that now? Zero, over here.

 

yes, agreed, no problems in France, In fact why not follow the French MH drivers, and do what they do in many hypermarkets, by taking 4 spaces, or even parking across the lines rather than in them!! Oddly though some Hypermarkets now have height barriers which precludes MHs from even getting in.....and certainly many of the fuel stations there are not the easiest for MHs.

 

Local Authorities in France provide better car parking, so French supermarkets don't suffer the same problems of their car parks being full of people who have parked and gone elsewhere, leaving no spaces for their customers.

[terry1956]

sheer lunar-see - 2015-07-16 9:37 PM

 

NEVER have the problem over here in France, very rare that you even have to pay for parking, let alone two tickets for a campervan, so when they charge 10euros for a space on a aire including electric and water, who cares, sounds cheap don't it !!!! How much do you pay for your 2 tickets just for the day? no overnighting. Then there's your road tax, how much is that now? Zero, over here.

 

having lived in France for a number of years you can stuff it. The French hate work, lie about most things re work and yes transport is cheaper for sure, but get your house priced and see the drop. makes the price of parking in the UK cheap.

[Billggski]

I picked this up from an RAC discussion site.

My MH can fit its wheels into a normal parking space, and I try to find a space where I can put the rear overhang over the grass verge.

 

Minimal overhang beyond the markings

 

The appellant, issued with a PCN for being parked outside a parking bay, appealed on the ground that the contravention had not taken place. The council contested the appeal, claiming that the PCN had been correctly issued and submitting photographs of the vehicle taken at the time.

 

The Adjudicator found that, while in principle any amount of a vehicle overhanging a bay would justify the issue of a PCN, it was subject to the de minimis rule, which states that in minimal cases, the law is not interested. In this case, he ruled that, from the council's photographs, the overhang was insufficient to amount to a contravention.

 

The appeal was allowed.

[brom]

Billggski - 2015-07-19 10:07 PM

 

I picked this up from an RAC discussion site.

My MH can fit its wheels into a normal parking space, and I try to find a space where I can put the rear overhang over the grass verge.

 

Minimal overhang beyond the markings

 

The appellant, issued with a PCN for being parked outside a parking bay, appealed on the ground that the contravention had not taken place. The council contested the appeal, claiming that the PCN had been correctly issued and submitting photographs of the vehicle taken at the time.

 

The Adjudicator found that, while in principle any amount of a vehicle overhanging a bay would justify the issue of a PCN, it was subject to the de minimis rule, which states that in minimal cases, the law is not interested. In this case, he ruled that, from the council's photographs, the overhang was insufficient to amount to a contravention.

 

The appeal was allowed.

[brom]

Sorry, don't know where my post went!

 

I wanted to say that, if you had 'chapter and verse' for the Adjudicator's decision - a case name and reference - it could be useful as a persuasive submission in future, similar cases. I doubt whether the Adjudicator would consider himself bound by the precedent, as each case would be dealt with on its facts, but the 'De Minimis' rule could certainly apply, and reference to a particular case - if a case report were available - would be very helpful.