adamgilmore Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Hi, Have had issues with the van battery going flat after about a week so bought a solar maintenance charger - this seemed to work well but for some reason the van battery is flat again. I've connected the EHU but wanted to clarify if this will charge the leisure battery and the van battery. Thanks, adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Some do, some don't. What does the manual say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamgilmore Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 Thanks Brian. I've looked through the manual a few times to try and work it out. Just went through it again in case I've missed something but it still seems a bit ambiguous. The relevant bits... Connecting the mains to the PSU * Switch off the PSU and connect EHU - done * Switch on the PSU and locate the green charger switch on the PSU and turn to the on position - done, charger button lights up This charges the leisure battery up fine. Control panel operation * "Battery select. By default, the leisure battery is selected as the power supply if no mains supply is present, or as the battery to be charged when the mains supply is available. The selected battery is indicated by an LED situated in the centre of the leisure and vehicle battery gauges". With the EHU connected, pressing the Vehicle Battery Select button does nothing. I'm guessing this is because the mains is connected and the next feature is managing the charge... Smart Charging "The system incorporates a smart charge feature, which monitors both leisure and vehicle batteries and automatically adjusts and directs the charger power (and solar power if a solar panel is installed) to maintain the leisure and vehicle batteries at optimal levels" From reading this, it feels like that the smart charging should charge both batteries when EHU connected. If this is the case, there must be a fault or I'm not doing something correctly. Would you expect the EHU to be able to charge the vehicle battery if it was flat? It's been hooked up for 24 hours and the vehicle battery is still showing a flashing red light at 10V on the control panel. I just wanted to check that it should charge both batteries before I have to take it into the dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Our Globecar only allows a low charging current to the vehicle battery, most of the charging current going to the leisure battery, but even this will show a significant charge into the vehicle battery after a few hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 adamgilmore - 2015-08-03 8:36 PM Thanks Brian. I've looked through the manual a few times to try and work it out. Just went through it again in case I've missed something but it still seems a bit ambiguous. The relevant bits... Connecting the mains to the PSU * Switch off the PSU and connect EHU - done * Switch on the PSU and locate the green charger switch on the PSU and turn to the on position - done, charger button lights up This charges the leisure battery up fine. Control panel operation * "Battery select. By default, the leisure battery is selected as the power supply if no mains supply is present, or as the battery to be charged when the mains supply is available. The selected battery is indicated by an LED situated in the centre of the leisure and vehicle battery gauges". With the EHU connected, pressing the Vehicle Battery Select button does nothing. I'm guessing this is because the mains is connected and the next feature is managing the charge... Smart Charging "The system incorporates a smart charge feature, which monitors both leisure and vehicle batteries and automatically adjusts and directs the charger power (and solar power if a solar panel is installed) to maintain the leisure and vehicle batteries at optimal levels" From reading this, it feels like that the smart charging should charge both batteries when EHU connected. If this is the case, there must be a fault or I'm not doing something correctly. Would you expect the EHU to be able to charge the vehicle battery if it was flat? It's been hooked up for 24 hours and the vehicle battery is still showing a flashing red light at 10V on the control panel. I just wanted to check that it should charge both batteries before I have to take it into the dealer. Thanks for that clarification Adam. My reading is much as I suspect yours is, which is to say that while on EHU the system should provide a charge to both batteries. I don't know what charging system Autocruise uses, and have user experience only of CBE and Schaudt units, but with these the variable (smart) output is to the habitation battery, while the starter battery gets a (dumb) trickle, or maintenance, charge. This is logical, since once parked it is usually the habitation battery that gets caned, while the starter battery has to do no more than maintain the base vehicle electronics memories, and possibly a radio pre-set memory. I assume the Autocruise system would do something similar, but with an added switch to select the starter battery to get the full charge while supplying the habitation functions. So, two possibilities suggest themselves to me. One, your van has a defective starter battery, which is possible but unusual, or two, that there is a fault in either the charger unit or its connection to the starter battery. You haven't said if the engine will start but, if that 10V on the panel is accurate, the battery is as flat as a hat and I would not expect any more than a half hearted "click" were you to try! Have you tried turning on the road lights to see if they illuminate? At 10V, they wouldn't produce much more than a glow worm emits! I don't, therefore, think the problem is you, but is either the charger/control panel, its wiring, or the battery (in fact, at 10V, it is may now be damaged by having been been run so low). There seems one further possibility, which is that you may somehow have designated the starter battery as the service battery, and been running the habitation side from it. It may be that its voltage has now fallen so low that the system can no longer "read" it. If that is the case, you will almost certainly need starting assistance to get the van going, but once the engine is running you may find that the system comes back to life. If that works, selecting the starter battery to charge may enable it to recover. However, this seems to contradict the extract from the manual which, at least to me, implies that when the starter battery is selected on the panel it, and not the habitation battery, should be the one that gets charged. If it helps, our 2013 Ducato based van has now been off EHU since 24 June. I checked the starter battery state on 15 July, when it read 12.7V (just below full charge), and again on 31 July, when it read 12.5V (just below 25% discharged). So, although a different van with a different charger unit, I would definitely not expect the starter battery on yours to go flat after only a week. Clearly something is very wrong. I'd suggest first trying the road lights to see if they come on. If they seem OK, try starting the engine. If it starts OK, I think the battery will be all right, and the fault is in the control panel or associated wiring. But, there is clearly something amiss, and I think you need to at least speak to your dealer, because they can't begin a fix until they are notified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 ...it would be useful to know which model of (Sargent?) electrics you have fitted to your Rythm. Early versions of their electrics did need the vehicle battery selecting on the panel to ensure it was charged, BUT later version (which from your wording I would assume you have) should ensure a maintenance charge is sent automatically to the battery when required (though, as Brian alludes to, this may be of a low amperage, and would thus take a long time to charge a fully-discharged battery). You seem to have two issues, one, that the vehicle battery is discharging, and two, that you cannot then recharge it with the on-board system. We may return to the former later, but there are a few things that might be relevant with the (non-) charging. 1. There will be a fuse in the charging circuit to the vehicle battery - has this been checked? (In most installations, this being blown would also ensure no 12V habitation electrics if the vehicle battery were selected as the supply at the panel (with no EHU)). 2. There are references in the Sargent documentation that the older (manually switched) versions of the electrics would not recharge the vehicle battery if it had dropped as low as 10V (the function would be inhibited). I wonder whether this is the case with the newer versions as well? Recommendation here was to use an external charger to ensure a higher starting voltage. Before returning to the (a) dealer, it may be worthwhile giving Sargent (if they are indeed the supplier of the electrics) a ring (or dropping them an eMail). They have a good reputation for responses to queries. http://sargentshop.co.uk/ (though, from the website message, holidays may intrude at the moment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I would post this on the swift-talk forum. Sargent monitor the site and jump in quickly in relation to posts which concern their ECUs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 On our Starfire the smart charger does charge both when switched on. It checks the state of both batteries about every 3hrs (I think) and then charges the one that needs it most. On the control panel above the door (shows levels etc) with the 12v turned on if you press the vehicle battery control then the charger should switch to the vehicle battery. One word of caution, we have found that when you park up and turn on the 12v it will take power from the battery that was last being charged from the EHU so check and select leisure battery if that is the case, the panel tells you which one is being used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Might be a silly question but you do have both switches in the cupboard switched on don't you ? in our last van we only switched it on when needed in our Autocruise you have to have both the green and orange switches on all the time you are hooked up, it keeps both batteries charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamgilmore Posted August 8, 2015 Author Share Posted August 8, 2015 Thanks all - just got some time to try out things today. I've jump started the van, drove for 30 mins and now the vehicle battery has enough charge to start. I've put the EHU on and selected Charger on the PSU. I'm going to keep an eye on the battery voltage level over the next few days to see if it drops. Robinhood - the battery was totally flat so I'm going to start from scratch to see if the EHU does supply a maintenance feed. Mike88 - thanks, I'll see if I've got a problem then post to the swifttalk site - have signed up. Graham - thanks, will make sure to check the battery selector on the control unit. Maggyd - on my van the PSU has only one Green Charger button + a Space Heater and Water Heater button. Do you have seperate Charger buttons for leisure and vehicle? Thanks again, adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 If you are plugging your solar maintenance charger into your cigarette socket then it won't work as the only time that socket is live is when the ignition is switched on and you wouldn't want to do that. The EHU on a Rhythm will charge both the leisure and vehicle batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamgilmore Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 The solar charger I've got (AA) plugs into the EODB socket. We spent 3 days off EHU a few weeks ago and were using the TV and lights with the solar charger connected. Both the leisure and vehicle battery stayed at what looked like full charge. Am assuming the EODB was feeding the smart charger (vehicle and leisure battery). I've got so many assumptions, I think posting to the Swift Talk group is in order :) Thanks again, adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 adamgilmore - 2015-08-08 7:04 PM Thanks all - just got some time to try out things today. I've jump started the van, drove for 30 mins and now the vehicle battery has enough charge to start. I've put the EHU on and selected Charger on the PSU. I'm going to keep an eye on the battery voltage level over the next few days to see if it drops. Robinhood - the battery was totally flat so I'm going to start from scratch to see if the EHU does supply a maintenance feed. Mike88 - thanks, I'll see if I've got a problem then post to the swifttalk site - have signed up. Graham - thanks, will make sure to check the battery selector on the control unit. Maggyd - on my van the PSU has only one Green Charger button + a Space Heater and Water Heater button. Do you have seperate Charger buttons for leisure and vehicle? Thanks again, adam Right that's me told :-D O.H has just said the switch is on the panel above door you just select which one needs charging! he thinks they must be something wrong , it should show you which battery is getting charged on that diagram of van. I seem to remember though we had a flat battery at Berwick when we first got it because he hadn't switched something on! Id study your book are ring Sargent they are very helpful. I just know when he plugs in outside I always switch two on in the cupboard the two on the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Had a look on Swift talk they are on holiday but someone should be there to help here; If anyone does require any assistance the technical support email and phone will open during normal office hours support@sargentltd.co.uk and 01482 678981 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 maggyd - 2015-08-09 2:17 PM Had a look on Swift talk they are on holiday but someone should be there to help here; If anyone does require any assistance the technical support email and phone will open during normal office hours support@sargentltd.co.uk and 01482 678981 Sargent are still monitoring the swift-talk forum despite the holiday: This is their post: "Hi all, Craig and myself are away on holiday for the next two weeks commencing 1.00pm on Friday 7th August 2015. Standing in for us is Dave C and Dan H who will be popping on Swift Talk from time to time to assist were they can. If anyone does require any assistance the technical support email and phone will open during normal office hours support@sargentltd.co.uk and 01482 678981 I trust those of you lucky people who are on holiday or are going away enjoy the break and hopefully nice weather? All the best Ian S and the team at Sargent" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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