What is more practical?

[Lizzie]

In terms of running costs - To buy an older more expensive used van eg Rapido/hymer or a newer cheaper van? What goes wrong with a ten year old van that you don't have to worry about in a newer model. Is it all a matter of luck? We have been drawn to Rapidos and Hymers but dont have any knowledge of what cpgoes wrong with motorhomes.

[Billggski]

I think the main problem is damp, not mechanics or fittings.

[Guest mikethe bike]

I would rather buy a better brand/quality used than a new one at the same price. I would however draw the line at 10 Yrs difference in age. More like 3 or 4 and you should get a very good quality make without the initial depreciation and VAT. But it must be in very good condition with lowish mileage and it might also have a lot of expensive extras that would also add cost to a new van.

I also have the same approach to cars. Let someone else take the initial big hit.

But I would always plump for Quality Continental vans for better winterising and build quality. But that's my personal preference, others may/will disagree of course.

[mikebeaches]

I suspect you'll find a diverse range of responses to that question, with some fairly entrenched views one way or the other.

 

Our first van was a six year old Rapido, and a very fine motorhome it was.

 

But, we decided to replace it with a brand new Chausson Flash van, a so called budget model (not that it was exactly cheap). We've had it for five years now and thinking seriously about our next new van.

 

We didn't have any serious problems with the six-year old van, though it must be said we didn't do a huge mileage in it either. The rear brake assemblies and shoes had to be completely replaced after we'd had it six months, even though it had come with a 12-month MOT and a dealers 12 month insurance backed warranty. We only manged to get the warranty to cover part of the repair coast. All in all not too serious and not too expensive, but perhaps typical of the sort of thing that might occur.

 

I guess one of the big things with an older coach built van is the possibility of water ingress, which if not detected early can be very expensive to fix. Perhaps Rapido and Hymer should both have a good build quality in the first place, but it could still happen.

 

So why go for a new van. Firstly, the much more modern and car-like driving experience of a new van. Travelling across the continent and down through Spain and onto the Algarve, for example, you want something really comfortable to drive. On our new van the steering and brakes were a revelation after driving the older model, and so much more relaxing as a result.

 

Secondly the reassurance of a manufacturer's full warranty. And in the case of the Chausson a five-year water ingress guarantee. Thirdly, we expected a new vehicle to be more reliable, which was important to us, driving long distances abroad. Thankfully, so it's proved to be in our case. Fourthly, the interior design is more modern and so on. And finally, we know the absolute full history of the vehicle and how it has been looked after.

 

So, as I said, for us we're now planning on buying another new van.

 

But no doubt there will be plenty of others that will hold the opposite view.

 

Good luck whatever you decide and hope you find a suitable motorhome to meet your needs.

 

Mike

[Lizzie]

We wouldnt be able to buy a new but did see a really nice 2005 Rapido and it got me thinking that The price of this was high but it did seem good a quality finish. We have seen vans which were a few years younger for much the same cost.

[Abcheetham]

We have a 2009 Hymer Exsis which we have owned for 16 months now. It's been trouble free and is still immaculate inside and out. 20,000 miles on a Ford Transit turbo diesel has proved to be perfectly reliable and Hymers build quality reputation has proved to be true. I don't see the point in buying a new one when you can save tens of thousands and have the same experience albeit with a few miles on.

[Charles]

We thought the old ones were very expensive, especially in the dealerships. A ten year old van sometimes would be 27k.. our brand new one was only 36k, with 3 year warranty & ten years body warranty.. It's a no brainer unless you find a sensible private seller.

[Brock]

The best van is whatever meets your needs when you buy.

 

Old vans wear out but in the case of Hymer, those are likely to be the accessories which are fitted to most vans. The true Hymer bit will last for a long time as evidenced by the number still going strong. The Fiat part will show its age but that would be the same with any old vans, not just Hymer. Hymer have a good track record of not leaking.

 

Newer vans will offer the latest in vehicle design and that is something seriously worth considering such as better crash protection, air bags, driving aids, more environmentally friendly engine.

 

Better to work out what exactly it is you want from a motorhome and then buy the newest you can that gives you that. But make sure you work it out correctly!

[Rayjsj]

Brock - 2015-08-17 9:44 AM

 

The best van is whatever meets your needs when you buy.

 

Old vans wear out but in the case of Hymer, those are likely to be the accessories which are fitted to most vans. The true Hymer bit will last for a long time as evidenced by the number still going strong. The Fiat part will show its age but that would be the same with any old vans, not just Hymer. Hymer have a good track record of not leaking.

 

Newer vans will offer the latest in vehicle design and that is something seriously worth considering such as better crash protection, air bags, driving aids, more environmentally friendly engine.

 

Better to work out what exactly it is you want from a motorhome and then buy the newest you can that gives you that. But make sure you work it out correctly!

 

'More Environmentally friendly Engine' DOES NOT EQUATE to a more reliable Engine, indeed in our experience of a 2012 'new' Euro 5 Fiat Ducato, it has been a reliability nightmare of DPF sensors, EGR sensors, Limp Mode, Etc., Our Previous X244 cabbed Autocruise, never missed a beat.

Well overrated, and the electronics are simply not fit for purpose. Give me back my Euro 4.

[Rayjsj]

Double post.

[Guest Joe90]

I have a ten year old Rapido, 7087F, you should be able to pick one up for around 20K, a new one, not sure, but I guess getting on 50k, so being simplistic 30k left in your pocket for spares and such like is quite a few bob, and our van is virtually as good as new, brilliant build quality, and just run in with 48000, on the clock, and no CAT, EGR, and the other things to worry about on the more modern Fiats,

 

blimey, I'm starting to sound like Pelmetman ;-)

[Brian Kirby]

Lizzie - 2015-08-16 8:47 PM

 

In terms of running costs - To buy an older more expensive used van eg Rapido/hymer or a newer cheaper van? What goes wrong with a ten year old van that you don't have to worry about in a newer model. Is it all a matter of luck? We have been drawn to Rapidos and Hymers but dont have any knowledge of what cpgoes wrong with motorhomes.

It breaks down into two parts. The base vehicle, and the conversion.

 

The biggest problem with the conversion part is water ingress, as said above. You can reduce this risk by prioritizing the brands that have a good reputation in this area, but should not take the view that brand X won't leak. It just means brand X is less likely to leak than brand Y, so you still need to look hard at overall condition, and try to get a close look at all the joints on the roof, including the joints between overcab fairing, walls, rooflights and anything like satellite dishes, solar panels, etc that may have been added later. Look for evidence of regular damp checks, and look to see what the checks show. Be a bit wary of vans with no damp check evidence to view. Both Rapido and Hymer have good reputations for staying dry, and also for being quite well assembled overall, but there will always be the odd one. Whatever the brand, the older the van the higher the risk, as sealants do age and become prone to failing. Almost everything else in the van is proprietary equipment bought in from a quite limited range of manufacturers, so will be more or less identical whatever brand of van you look at. Most of this stuff ages with use, so if a van looks to have been heavily used, or shows signs of careless use, you should expect these items to be more prone to breakdown or fail than in a less obviously used van. The two really big expenses should they fail, are the fridge and the heater. However, albeit the cost can be high, all can be repaired or replaced. So, your main enemy will be the damage caused by water ingress because it can progress so far before being picked up.

 

Mechanically, I think it fair to say if you stay under the 10 year old barrier, there should be little to worry you. The main items that fail are the usual clutches and brakes, and low mileage is no guarantee that these will be in good condition. Most motorhomes do very low mileages compared to the vans they are based upon, and some can be found at 10 years old with less then 30,000 or so recorded miles. This means the van will have been standing for long periods, so brakes will be liable to heavy corrosion, clutches and gear change linkages may well also be suffering from lack of use, brake fluid may well just have sat without being changed. Detailed maintenance records are highly desirable, accompanied by relevant bills, so that you can see what was done and when. Look closely at the condition of the engine bay, especially for signs of corrosion and indications of water ingress here. All SEVEL based vans have suffered from water getting into this area. Look also at the top of the engine for signs of rusting on the cylinder head. Surface rust would be normal, but anything that looks like heavy corrosion would be a cause of concern. There have been various attempts to resolve the water ingress problem and a number of owners have had these applied or have added their own, but there will always be the odd van where the problem has not been recognised or has been neglected. Test drive any van before buying, and if the registration year indicates an early X250 van, try to reverse it up a hill somewhere as there was a problem on a number of vans with severe vibration while reversing. Again, various remedies were put in place by Fiat etc, and the evidence should be among the paperwork. This problem is quite a story and I'd suggest you use the forum search facility entering as the keyword clutch judder. Later modifications more or less cured the problem in production. The 3.0 litre engine was not, generally, affected.

 

Tyres should be checked for age and condition, with anything over 7 years old (some will say 5 years), even if in apparently good condition, due for replacement. If there is a spare wheel, factor in its tyre for replacement as well, as it is age, not wear, that is the consideration.

 

There is some degree of risk in any second hand vehicle, so don't sink all your money into the van, because the older it is the higher the likelihood that something will fail. Keep some of your budget as a disaster fund, and then if nothing happens you've still got the money to spend as you choose.

 

My opinion is that it if confronted with two vans of equal age, mileage, and visible condition, but one of a well reputed brand and the other not, the one of reputable brand will be the better buy, subject to the price differential not being excessive. OTOH, if confronted by two similar vans of the same price, and the better reputed van is no more than a couple of years or so older, it will probably also be the better buy. The problem is, such coincidences are very rare, and you can only buy what is on offer at the time! The internet makes getting price comparisons for roughly similar vehicles fairly easy, so the final recommendation has to be to do your homework very carefully, and not to be afraid of asking on here for other people's experience of the make/model that interests you. Good luck.

[Brock]

Agree with you Ray that just being a higher Euro rating doesn't necessarily equate to better reliability.

 

I'm just coming up to 14,000 miles in my Euro 5 and it hasn't missed a beat. We're just a mile or so away from the motorway which means our van spends the first/last 20 mile or so running at over 50mph or 2000rpm which helps. I've never had any DPF warning lights on. My other 4 Fiats have been just as reliable.

[Fellbound]

I suspect a few other factors come into play, here, as well as those already mentioned, some of which are difficult to assess in advance of purchase. I guess you can buy an older van which will provide very reliable service for many more years - or it may turn out to have loads of problems, although paying for a qualified person to undertake a pre-purchase inspection would minimise, but not eradicate, the risk of that. New vans might be perfect, but they might not and it's clear that many do have problems, and some dealers seem better than others at remedying these, even though there is a warranty. If you are not good at things practical and things mechanical (I'm hopeless) then a new one with a long warranty might be more attractive.

 

The second factor is whether you are driven solely by what is economically rational! I doubt that financially it pays to buy a brand new MH, just as with a car, as the immediate depreciation is so horrific. Having said this, I have just done that very thing! I suspect it was the smell of newness and all the shininess that made my eyes glaze over and mushed my brains, and thus there disappeared a big chunk of my pension lump sum. It could be one of the most expensive mistakes of my life, but hey ho, no point keeping it in the bank for it simply to disappear on care home fees in a few years time.

 

As an aside, I saw a couple of disparaging references recently on internet forums saying people who purchase new MHs are just showing off etc. I think that says more about the posters than the purchasers and, anyway, if no-one bought new there would be no supply of second hand vans and no MH industry.

 

Finally, I set out to buy a second hand one before I was lured into my moment of madness, and I have to say I was amazed at just how expensive they were if they were less than about five years old - so I assume that after the first couple of years depreciation isn't as bad as it is for cars. Anyway, I'm off now to get in the cab on the drive and have another sniff of that lovely smell in advance of our first proper outing later this week..... :-D

[Rayjsj]

Brock - 2015-08-17 4:06 PM

 

Agree with you Ray that just being a higher Euro rating doesn't necessarily equate to better reliability.

 

I'm just coming up to 14,000 miles in my Euro 5 and it hasn't missed a beat. We're just a mile or so away from the motorway which means our van spends the first/last 20 mile or so running at over 50mph or 2000rpm which helps. I've never had any DPF warning lights on. My other 4 Fiats have been just as reliable.

unfortunately we live 70 miles away from the nearest Motorway, and 30 miles away from the nearest 'good dual carriageway' so our van spends a lot of it's life 'ticking over' at single carriageway speeds. Seems like modern vehicles cannot handle these conditions. Ray

[Guest Joe90]

Brock says his van is coming up to 14000 miles and hasn't missed a beat, good luck to him, but I'd be far more impressed hearing it had done 140,000 miles with the same good news, ;-)

[Colin Leake]

We had a Rapido from new which we kept for five vertually trouble free years. Wonderful build quality but looking at their new ones I get the impression they are not quite as well built. We changed to a new PVC late last year one year earlier than we would normally change specifically to avoid Euro 6 with all its potential problems.

[Rayjsj]

Joe90 - 2015-08-17 7:08 PM

 

Brock says his van is coming up to 14000 miles and hasn't missed a beat, good luck to him, but I'd be far more impressed hearing it had done 140,000 miles with the same good news, ;-)

. Very few motorhomes will reach 140.000 in their lifetimes, so, why are they so unreliable for the few miles they cover ? And 'low use' should be accounted for, blaming it as the cause of unreliability, is a 'Cop out'. For poor design.

[Lizzie]

Many thanks for some very detailed and helpful replies. All food for thought ...

[Billggski]

I don't think they are unreliable, Nick at Euroserve will have some comments about the astronomical mileages his Fiats have done.

Like all motor forums, folk contribute when they have a problem, not when things are going fine.

[Guest Joe90]

Rayjsj - 2015-08-17 7:59 PM

 

Joe90 - 2015-08-17 7:08 PM

 

Brock says his van is coming up to 14000 miles and hasn't missed a beat, good luck to him, but I'd be far more impressed hearing it had done 140,000 miles with the same good news, ;-)

. Very few motorhomes will reach 140.000 in their lifetimes, so, why are they so unreliable for the few miles they cover ? And 'low use' should be accounted for, blaming it as the cause of unreliability, is a 'Cop out'. For poor design.

 

I wasn't blaming low use for unreliability, I was merely expressing the view that someone thinks managing a mere 14000 miles without problem is hardly anything to crow about,

 

with modern engineering we should all fully expect mileages greatly in excess of that without major problems, whether we personally do that or not being besides the point ;-)

[George Collings]

Just been away for a over a week in our 1997 VW Lt Auto-Sleepers Medallion with 80.000 miles on the clock. Its worth perhaps 9-11 thousand pounds.

 

Covered about 600 motorway miles at a steady 70mph passing scores of much more modern motorcaravans pootling along in the inside lane at around 60mph. No doubt sooting up their exhaust systems and presumably saving about 10% on fuel used but loosing many times what I am in depreciation.

 

And I shall be off to France for another couple of thousand in a week or so.

 

Now if that does not raise a few hackles nothing will.

Goodnight.

[Muswell]

George Collings - 2015-08-17 11:22 PM

 

 

Covered about 600 motorway miles at a steady 70mph passing scores of much more modern motorcaravans pootling along in the inside lane at around 60mph. No doubt sooting up their exhaust systems and presumably saving about 10% on fuel used

 

Save 3p a mile at 3000 pootlemiles a year and you save £90. A bit over an an hour workshop time +VAT

[Pc Plod]

I have a chausson flash 10 just 2 years old which has all the bling and gismos you could desire but the lack of quality is now apparent. If buying again i would go for a second hand older quality van regardless of a high mileage.If service records back up the mileage then for me it would be a no brainer. Given another 2 years i think that my all bling motorhome will have fallen to bits without some major repairs.

[George Collings]

Muswell, Balance the fuel cost against driving time or for me my own workshop time. At my age i grab every second as I must have used a high percentage of my allocation.