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Euro 6 emissions compliance


Malo37

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It seems pretty clear that from 1st September 2015 (i.e. next week) it will be illegal to register new diesel cars or light vans that do not meet Euro 6 standards. How come then that I am being offered a choice of new van conversion motorhomes (light vans) by dealers that are only Euro 5 compliant?

Additionally the concept of Euro 5+ as apparently claimed by Fiat is a nonsense as no such legal classification exists.

I for one will not consider a new motorhome that is not Euro 6 compliant and suggest that anyone should adopt the same position for their own protection and future real value of their vehicle.

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Euro 6 doesn't apply to light commercials until September 2016

 

"When will Euro-6 arrive?

 

Strictly speaking, Euro-6 has already arrived. Mercedes-Benz were the first manufacturer to offer Euro-6 compliant vans with the Sprinter back in 2013, but it won’t be until September 2016 that all new vans sold must meet the new regulation.

 

John

 

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I think your information is incorrect the September 2015 is the date that vehicles submitted for type approval have to meet Euro 6, which is rather different.

 

As for Fiats 5 + there are 3 Euro 5 standards, 5, 5a & 5b, I believe Fiats Euro 5+ is 5b.

 

A vehicle that was type approved to Euro 5 in say 2011 if it is still being manufactured it is perfectly legal to register.

Also a Motorhomes emissions are not required for registration and are not shown on the V5.

 

An example, DLR's are required on vehicles type approved from Feb 2011, my car was built and registered in 2012 and does not have DRL's, but it is legal as type approval for the car was given in 2009.

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Interestingly, I was discussing with a dealer this week the possibility of placing a factory order for a new Ducato-based German-converted PVC to be delivered in the New Year. I assumed it would be Euro-6, but apparently not. Further, I was advised it would be 2017-year models before Euro-6 would be produced/available?

 

I was unsure whether that was good or bad. Each time the emissions are reduced further, there appear to be more technical problems encountered by the end-user ie the customer. Have heard first-hand accounts from a number of Euro-5 owners that have suffered difficulties. Whereas, our Euro-4 engine has never missed a beat.

 

Mike

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....I think the September deadline is the one for new Type Approvals, rather than new registrations.

 

As yet, I don't even believe any of the Sevel manufactured 'vans commonly used as base vehicles have been announced as Euro 6 versions (though there are very scant details of the 'passenger' (Combi) versions being thus equipped), so it is unlikely you will get a converted vehicle thus equipped for some time.

 

I also believe the standard cut-off date for registration of Euro 5 vehicles is September 2016, but that a VCA derogation already exists that would extend that into 2017 for multi-stage vehicles (which most motorcaravans are).

 

Hence, I would conjecture that a good few Sevel-based vans ordered now for future delivery might well arrive (even into next year) with Euro 5+ engines.

 

If the MMM take on the timings is correct:

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Motorhomes/News/Manufacturers/Fiat-emissions-ahead-of-Euro-VI-arrival/_ch1_nw4174_pg1

 

...that seems very likely to be the case.

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According to the SMMT (Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders) Euro 6 Type Approval was 1st September 2014 and implementation is 1st September 2015.

See: http://www.smmt.co.uk/industry-topics/air-quality/euro-6-mean/

You will find similar information on many other websites such as RAC and European Commission legislation.

There is no exemption for motorhomes as stated by someone in this thread.

 

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Irrespective of the obvious confusion around implementation dates it is also likely that non Euro 6 vehicles will be progressively hit by higher tax and will therefore loose value more quickly than E6 vehicles.

Several of the dealers I have spoken to recently feign ignorance of this whole matter which creates the impression that we are possibly being conned with their obvious priority to get rid of current stock.

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Malo37 - 2015-08-23 9:40 AM

 

Irrespective of the obvious confusion around implementation dates it is also likely that non Euro 6 vehicles will be progressively hit by higher tax and will therefore loose value more quickly than E6 vehicles.

Several of the dealers I have spoken to recently feign ignorance of this whole matter which creates the impression that we are possibly being conned with their obvious priority to get rid of current stock.

 

The emissions has no effect on the tax band, look at your V5 you will see there are no entries for emissions.

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Malo37 - 2015-08-23 9:34 AM

 

According to the SMMT (Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders) Euro 6 Type Approval was 1st September 2014 and implementation is 1st September 2015.

See: http://www.smmt.co.uk/industry-topics/air-quality/euro-6-mean/

You will find similar information on many other websites such as RAC and European Commission legislation.

There is no exemption for motorhomes as stated by someone in this thread.

 

That link only refers to passenger cars.

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Malo37 - 2015-08-23 9:34 AM

 

According to the SMMT (Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders) Euro 6 Type Approval was 1st September 2014 and implementation is 1st September 2015.

See: http://www.smmt.co.uk/industry-topics/air-quality/euro-6-mean/

You will find similar information on many other websites such as RAC and European Commission legislation.

There is no exemption for motorhomes as stated by someone in this thread.

 

Lenny has already put you right on the SMMT documentation.

 

(If it applied to LCVs, why do you think none of the Sevel manufacturers have Euro VI vehicles currently on the market, with 7 days to go to your stated deadline?).

 

I can assure you that the VCA has already announced an end-of-series derogation for the UK registration of multi-stage vehicles in this class that do not comply with Euro VI, that will allow registration into 2017. (this is a fairly standard arrangement to allow dealers to run-out stock, without having a hiatus on stocking due to the interim low availability of compliant vehicles for conversion).

 

 

 

I understand from the German motorhome press that similar extensions will be applied there.

 

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mikebeaches - 2015-08-23 9:01 AM

 

I was unsure whether that was good or bad. Each time the emissions are reduced further, there appear to be more technical problems encountered by the end-user ie the customer. Have heard first-hand accounts from a number of Euro-5 owners that have suffered difficulties. Whereas, our Euro-4 engine has never missed a beat.

 

 

Exactly - I too would prefer to let others be the manufacturer's test and development guinea pigs until the problems are resolved, especially for low mileage vehicles - like motorhomes!

 

I believe that it really does not pay to be first to buy any new technology that is unproven in the real world of actual owner use.

 

By the way the Wiki entry shows some different dates to the ones Lenny posted - confusing innit - although I suspect that Lenny's are correct - I think!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards

 

This is from the VCA website -

 

"Sell-Off

Directive 97/68/EC has a provision in Section 4 Article 9, commonly referred to as “Sell-Off”, which allows engine manufacturers a period of two years after the start of a new emission standard, during which the manufacturer can place engines complying with the earlier standard, onto the EU market. Please note that the provision of “Sell-off” does NOT require an application. See section 5 of the CECE guide in “Other Guidance Notes” above."

 

And trying to find the definitive dates for final registrations of any Euro level is even more confusing - so maybe it's best to just use and enjoy and let others worry about all this mumbo jumbo!!

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Tracker - 2015-08-23 10:31 AM

 

By the way the Wiki entry show different date to the ones Lenny posted - confusing innit!

 

 

...I think Lenny's extract was cut and pasted from Wiki, so I'm certainly confused :-).

 

One relevant portion of the Wiki text pertaining to the dates, however, is:

 

All dates listed in the tables refer to new type approvals. The EC Directives also specify a second date—usually one year later—which applies to first registration (entry into service) of existing, previously type-approved vehicle models.

 

The problem with interpreting the rules for motorhomes is that they are class M vehicles, largely a second-stage build on a base that would be regarded as class N. Things then get a bit "sticky", (since a pure class M build might be considered as requiring compliance now) - hence the confusion (deciding which rules to apply) and the general use of derogations.

 

 

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Guest pelmetman
lennyhb - 2015-08-23 9:01 AM

 

Type approval dates.

 

Horace is a Euro 0 :D ...........

 

Must be why I'm a UKIP supporter..... that's the kinda score I like to see (lol) ...........

 

 

 

 

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I'm with you,Pelmetman. I bought a 'new' in 2012. Euro5 compliant Fiat based motorhome. The base vehicle has been the most unreliable vehicle I have owned in over 60 years ( and I have owned some crap vehicles in that time, believe me). The problems: ALL down to 'added' emission control equipment, and an ECU that 'assumes' a certain type of use.ie high mileage, high use, high speed, driving, none of which are correct. It is in fact a low mileage, low use, moderate speed driving vehicle, AND it doesn't like it. Euro 6. No thank you, Euro 5 is bad enough.

 

 

I am sure that Nick of Euroserve, finds them Ok, but for motorhomes...... no.

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To some extent I agree, my car broke down last week took them 3 days to find a faulty connection on the tank sensor, didn't effect the fuel gauge but it turned the fuel pump off!

On the other hand had the last X250 for 6 years, current one for one year, both have run faultlessly.

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