Mel E Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 There was a post sometime ago from soemone with a Renault Master based coachhbuilt that he was told was plated at 3850 but actually came with a plate showing only 3500 MAM/GVW/MPTLM. Checks with Renault revealed that they do not plate a Master to more than 3500 Kgs. HOWEVER, I have just checked ours and find that the axle limits are: Front - 1850 Rear - 2060 a total of 3910 leaving lots of flexibility above the 3500. For anyone interested, this means it should be possible to up-plate the Master to 3850 without modification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 IMHO limits on each axle do not imply a greater overall load capacity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Hi Mel, The post was from me and ours is plated at 3500 but registered with DVLA as 3850kg. Finally Chausson have admitted its wrong and they are sending the new plate. (Goodness knows when that will arrive though as Chausson are not the best after sales company) Our Master is plated front as 1870 and rear 2060. We took it to local weighbridge and front was 1600 and rear 2040 with total being 3640kg. This was myself only driving it on without my husband, or packed with food or clothing. It was full of diesel and about a third full of water. The van is obviously a 3850 weight and this can be uprated easily. I am in contact with a second Renault Master Chausson Allegro owner and his is plated for 38500kg. It can be done Mel Christine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Very worrying figures as any load you put in will have some amount going on back axle, and anything behind back axle will of course put greater load on back axle than its actual weight. This must make it almost impossible to legaly use van for its intended purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Mel, The individual axle weights on our Sprinter based Scout are similar to yours but the vehicle remains plated at 3500 overall. Is it not possible that the limit is set for either / both of matching licensing regulations or braking efficiency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Just done a 'back of a fag pack' calculation, and if you have LWB then a 80kg person sitting in front seat puts 15kg of load on back axle, as you have only 20kg to spare doesn't leave a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Ord Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 This thread shows the reason manufacturers fit Michelin camping tyres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted November 1, 2006 Author Share Posted November 1, 2006 Colin, I have been advised by a company that works solely on replating vehicles - and is recommended by the DforT - that they can normally replate up to the sum of the axle weights. I stress the 'normally', but I see no reason why the Master should be an exception. Their main business is with heavy goods vehicles, bnut they also have quite extensive experience of motorhomes and I know several dozen MMM readers have used the information provided in one of my articles about 18 months ago to replate - both up and down - using this company. Of course, you cannot use this new MAM to its full as to do so would involve incredibly difficult balancing between the axles and even then you would probably exceed onbe or other as you burned fuel. But it does give a lot more flexibility as the case of the Master limits illustrates. Bill, I really don't see what Michelin Camping tyres have to do with it? Can you explain, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted November 1, 2006 Author Share Posted November 1, 2006 Chris, Even replating your Chausson will not solve your problem. As Colin points out, you have no chance of remaining legal on the rear axle with almost any additional load. You will have to travel without any fresh or waste water. I'm not familiar with the specific model, but I can't see how the rear axle is so heavily loaded - is it a garage model with lead weights in the garage? Clive, Your guess is right: the 3500 limit has more to do with driver licensing rules than anything else. As far as braking efficiency and other safety aspects are concerned, the firm that provides the upgraded plates obviously takes this into account in the calculations they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Mel, the van was fully laden in the underbed locker of a fixed bed. It had 2 gas bottles, 2 batteries, spare wheel, tools, 4 chairs, table, wine (of course) cleaning fluids etc etc plus we have a bike rack and we left the 2 bikes loaded on the back to really make sure it was almost full. Any other items such as food and some more clothing will go to the front of the vehicle so we did weigh it fairly full other than my hubby not being in the front with me. Obviously we are aware of limits and will not drive with full tanks unless we really have to as the tank holds 100litres and usually find 40-50 is sufficient. Mel, the last postings I did on this were under topic "poor service from dealership" which I think I will change to "poor service from manufacturer" as my dealer no longer deals with Chausson. The comment of "no back up" may have something to do with it. Many people think its the dealer but I have contact with several people including Derek Uzell who can back me up about the poor customer service from Chausson. Renault on the other hand have been brilliant as they have now given me a 3 year warranty in writing so all that is sorted and the Master is brilliant and so too is the van. I will try to find out for you what the correct weights will be on the 3850kg plate from someone I know who has the Master plated at 3850kg. Chris Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Try contacting the guy that imports Autostars (The Camper House in Oxford). He can get the Autostar Renault Masters plated up to 3900k. As far as I am aware, it doesn't require any modifcations, just the cost of the replating, the suspension and the standard 16" wheels and XC tyres are suitable. I am thinking of doing this with my Master to give me a bit more leeway. Also, if you look at the Dethleffs review in last months MMM (October, I think) you will see that is plated at 3900k and it has the same platform cab, wheelbase and tyres as my Weinsburg which is plated at 3500k. HTH ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 [QUOTE]chris - 2006-11-01 12:08 PM ............Mel, the last postings I did on this were under topic "poor service from dealership" which I think I will change to "poor service from manufacturer" as my dealer no longer deals with Chausson. The comment of "no back up" may have something to do with it. Many people think its the dealer but I have contact with several people including Derek Uzell who can back me up about the poor customer service from Chausson. Renault on the other hand have been brilliant as they have now given me a 3 year warranty in writing so all that is sorted and the Master is brilliant and so too is the van. I will try to find out for you what the correct weights will be on the 3850kg plate from someone I know who has the Master plated at 3850kg. Chris Chris[/QUOTE] Hi chris Glad you have finally got some progress and a happy outcome from Renault and you are still enjoying your Master........our Sun Ti is proving to be everything we wanted too. Best regards, david Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Madge Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 [QUOTE]robin - 2006-11-01 1:57 PM Try contacting the guy that imports Autostars (The Camper House in Oxford). He can get the Autostar Renault Masters plated up to 3900k. As far as I am aware, it doesn't require any modifcations, just the cost of the replating, the suspension and the standard 16" wheels and XC tyres are suitable. I am thinking of doing this with my Master to give me a bit more leeway. Also, if you look at the Dethleffs review in last months MMM (October, I think) you will see that is plated at 3900k and it has the same platform cab, wheelbase and tyres as my Weinsburg which is plated at 3500k. HTH ;-)[/QUOTE] The Autostar dealer is Martyn Cole The Camper House, P.O. Box Oxford 432, Oxford, OX2 9WJ.(importer) 01865 427900 Fax 01865 427576 Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted November 4, 2006 Author Share Posted November 4, 2006 Chris, I now understand your rear axle weight problem. The biggest move you could make would be to move both batteries to the front (?in the seat boxes?) as that would make the biggest difference in one fell swoop. As you are, even putting food, etc., in is going to increase the back axle load, as will anythin added to the vehicle behind the front axle, and up-plating will not solve that. But it's really good to read that other Masters have been upplated. This seems to me to have been a really useful thread with several very positive bits of info - just what the forum is meant to be about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Mel, Have received the info from a fellow Renault Master owner. His plating reads:- GBM 3900 GTM 5500 AXLE 1 1870 AXLE2 2060 Hope this helps Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 [QUOTE]chris - 2006-11-12 9:30 PM Mel, Have received the info from a fellow Renault Master owner. His plating reads:- GBM 3900 GTM 5500 AXLE 1 1870 AXLE2 2060 Hope this helps Chris[/QUOTE] Hello again ChrisSome progress for you, then. That's good. Do send an e-mail to Michelin (or whoever's) technical with the proposed revised axle loads and details of the sizes, ratings and types of your tyres. I expect these will be Michelin XC Camping but of course, may not. The important thing will be to get their assurance that the tyres will be suitable for the new axle loadings, and to get their recommended tyre pressures for those loads.You are already very close to the limit at the rear so, as Mel says, anything you can do to bring weight forward will be advantageous to loading overall, and will probably improve the ride and stability of the van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Thanks Brian Have already contacted michelin with our weighting after the weighbridge and they gave me new tyre pressures to use with our Michelin Camping tyres so that has been sorted. As you say we are near the mark but have removed and replaced 2 heavier chairs for new ones and realise that we have to be careful. Unfortunately our biggest storage area is under the longitudinal bed so we tended to put things in there a lot. We have a manufactures purpose made battery holding area under this bed for the battery and we therefor put the second battery next to it as all the connections are there. Will now be reshuffling things to the front and will pay another visit to weighbridge in the future to check things over. Thanks Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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