Lizzie Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 We looked at an Auto-trail with fixed bed 2011 yesterday and were surprised at how rickety some of the doors , fittings etc were. Having mainly looked at German/French vans (because of our preferred layout the condition was a surprise as this one is much newer than most vans we have been in but the condition less good. Is this usual? Or just that the last owner didn't look after it? Or that more modern vans are less well made than the 2002-2007 vans we have mainly looked at? Just interested really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Lizzie - 2015-09-27 7:46 PM modern vans are less well made than the 2002-2007 vans we have mainly looked at? YES !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Tracker - 2015-09-27 7:50 PM Lizzie - 2015-09-27 7:46 PM modern vans are less well made than the 2002-2007 vans we have mainly looked at? YES !! Objection M'Lud, unsubstantiated opinion! :-D All vans? On what grounds? I rather suspect a heavy handed previous owner, and lack of a screwdriver being periodically applied to the hinge screws. Some minor maintenance on such items is essential, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Brian Kirby - 2015-09-27 9:25 PM Tracker - 2015-09-27 7:50 PM Lizzie - 2015-09-27 7:46 PM modern vans are less well made than the 2002-2007 vans we have mainly looked at? YES !! Objection M'Lud, unsubstantiated opinion! :-D All vans? On what grounds? . Personal observations, yer onner, as well as some personal experience of several makes as they have 'developed' over the years as converters struggle to compensate for base vehicles getting heavier with more kit by making their conversions 'lighter' to try to retain payload. And 'lighter' is just a euphemism for 'flimsier' innit! Just a personal opinion of course and I await, and would be overjoyed at, the proof that I am wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Brian Kirby - 2015-09-27 9:25 PM rather suspect a heavy handed previous owner, and lack of a screwdriver being periodically applied to the hinge screws. Some minor maintenance on such items is essential, IMO. Doesn't that say it all? In 16 years I have never had to do that...but then quality of construction was important to me when I bought. The last time I looked around I thought a lot of the build quality was hopeless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pampam Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Weve had three autotrails one of which was a brand new apache which we thought iferior to the older cheyanne we had previously altho the cheyanne was a frontier model and the apache wasnt , the upholstery in the apache was v cheap looking and was like sitting on styrofoam (probably for the weight ) the doors had naff handles that didnt stay locked when travelling, the underseating slats were always coming apart , this is just my own personal experience and im sure plenty of people would prefer the newer lightweight style :) pp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dora_ex Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 We bought an new Excel Auto-trail 5 years ago. It was in their words a "budget" version. We have now spent over 750 nights in the van, travelled 52,000 miles and for us the quality is more than fine. At the time the budget van we bought was over £7k cheaper than any other manufacturer for a similar van. Yes we have to do maintenance jobs, if not am sure many bits of it would have dropped off all over the country. Cupboards shut and stay shut (and they don't have catches like the quality vans), window blinds all working, no leaks, even the flimsy shutter door on the bathroom remains on its runners - despite its best efforts not to we find a yearly adjustment and its fine again. Its been well used and certainly has a lived in look about it - we too have seen many a van several years older than ours that looks in loads better condition, never know thought how much they cost new, how often they have been used and how well looked after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 It's not just AutoTrail. Our first motorhome was a Rapido with wonderful build quality including solid maple wood cabinat doors. When the time came to replace it the quality was not in the same class possibly to combat problems with the weak pound. We bought an AutoTrail which with,the exception of,the rubbishy so,called intertainment system proved to be very well built. We now have an AutoSleeper PVC which after spending over 120 nights already in it this year is proving to be very well built. Mind you its not all,been plain sailing we have needed to,have a new circuit board in the heating system and a new windscreen to replace one broken by a stone neither of which had anything to do,with the build quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I think this is best reflected in what i read about older model Hymer vans actually commanding higher price tags than later model Hymers due solely to better build quality of the older vans. As for the need to take a screwdriver now 'n then to tighten up door screws.....blimey Brian if that isn't down to shoddy build quality then i don't know what is!! When someone has shelled out a £50k+ wedge i believe they deserve much better that that! New vans look nice and shiny....just like any new car, but is it really that much better than the 'old' one you've just p/xd in? Often not and once that shine has begun to fade, so has the dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Bulletguy - 2015-09-28 7:46 PM I think this is best reflected in what i read about older model Hymer vans actually commanding higher price tags than later model Hymers due solely to better build quality of the older vans. As for the need to take a screwdriver now 'n then to tighten up door screws.....blimey Brian if that isn't down to shoddy build quality then i don't know what is!! When someone has shelled out a £50k+ wedge i believe they deserve much better that that! New vans look nice and shiny....just like any new car, but is it really that much better than the 'old' one you've just p/xd in? Often not and once that shine has begun to fade, so has the dream. But don't forget these state of the art new vans are much cleaner for the environment, and more economical ;-) .......... Just ask the software (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Maybe the next designer touch should be a screwdriver with the Hymer logo on it :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 It's quite interesting that in 2015,, and driving about in some pretty high tech machines, we still want the inside to look like it's made of wood. Until a few years ago, solid wood was still used but now, for weight considerations, it seems to be mostly veneer over sturdy cardboard ;-) I wonder if we could get used to living in a plastic box that looked plastic, and would that give us better MH's? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 candapack - 2015-09-28 8:38 PM I wonder if we could get used to living in a plastic box that looked plastic, Aah, you mean like a Romahome? White plastic (well fibreglass) insides. Looked a little too 'Sterile' for me, but a very nice idea. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakofox Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 dora_ex - 2015-09-28 6:09 PM We bought an new Excel Auto-trail 5 years ago. It was in their words a "budget" version. We have now spent over 750 nights in the van, travelled 52,000 miles and for us the quality is more than fine. At the time the budget van we bought was over £7k cheaper than any other manufacturer for a similar van. Yes we have to do maintenance jobs, if not am sure many bits of it would have dropped off all over the country. Cupboards shut and stay shut (and they don't have catches like the quality vans), window blinds all working, no leaks, even the flimsy shutter door on the bathroom remains on its runners - despite its best efforts not to we find a yearly adjustment and its fine again. Its been well used and certainly has a lived in look about it - we too have seen many a van several years older than ours that looks in loads better condition, never know thought how much they cost new, how often they have been used and how well looked after. We bought a 2011 Excel this year, love it. It is good to hear from another owner that you are happy with yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakofox Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 dora_ex - 2015-09-28 9:13 PM We bought a 2011 Excel this year, love it. It is good to hear from another owner that you are happy with yours. its often feels a very un-trendy vehicle to own! but we love it, its done us brilliant service and when we had a couple of teething problems when we purchased it Auto-trail were wonderful. Hope you have many years of good touring in yours We never feel untrendy, just a bit small , 6mtr long, compared to others with their three axles and towing cars, but it is just right for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 candapack - 2015-09-28 8:38 PM It's quite interesting that in 2015,, and driving about in some pretty high tech machines, we still want the inside to look like it's made of wood. Until a few years ago, solid wood was still used but now, for weight considerations, it seems to be mostly veneer over sturdy cardboard ;-) I wonder if we could get used to living in a plastic box that looked plastic, and would that give us better MH's? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? I suppose when we have plastic furniture in our homes it will be ok to have plastic furniture in our motorhomes. Can't see it happening any time soon. My van is all lightweight plywood furniture and it's really sturdy and well made. I'm surprised really as it's only an Elddis B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeco Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 It is interesting to read the various comments about the lightweight nature of the current build MHs. In my opinion the use of light ply enables the designers to develop interesting interiors. EG most of the Australian built MHs & caravans build using the boring (IMHO) square shaped cupboards compared to the nice curved shapes often seen on British/Euro vehicles. That was in fact one of the reasons for selecting an AT over a locally built coachbuilt. We demand all the comforts of home such as aircon, full size fridge, full size stove, tanks for new & old water all of which consume payload. Modern technology enables us to build planes from synthetic materials so why not MHs. So long as the build quality is in keeping with the price you pay then to me it is fine. If you buy the most expensive unit then you should not expect to find bits falling off however if you buy budget you may be perfectly happy to make a few adjustments once a year as was stated earlier. On a price point AT probably fits high second quartile (in marketing speak) in this part of the world. The only minor issues I have experienced have been screws coming loose in the thin ply on a couple of brackets or hinges. I have replaced the screws with fasteners made specifically for fibre board and they have worked much better than the standard style Pk screws. I can live with flimsy bathroom walls/doors so long as the external wall is well insulated from hot & cold as is needed. Overall I see the light weight design as a positive. Built quality is however I think a separate issue that is tied to the culture of the individual converter. Cheers Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 hi all, Most leisure vehicles are nice to look at and by and large do their job,but in my opinion one thing they definitely are NOT is Value For Money. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Tracker - 2015-09-27 10:12 PM Brian Kirby - 2015-09-27 9:25 PM Tracker - 2015-09-27 7:50 PM Lizzie - 2015-09-27 7:46 PM modern vans are less well made than the 2002-2007 vans we have mainly looked at? YES !! Objection M'Lud, unsubstantiated opinion! :-D All vans? On what grounds? . Personal observations, yer onner, as well as some personal experience of several makes as they have 'developed' over the years as converters struggle to compensate for base vehicles getting heavier with more kit by making their conversions 'lighter' to try to retain payload. And 'lighter' is just a euphemism for 'flimsier' innit! Just a personal opinion of course and I await, and would be overjoyed at, the proof that I am wrong! Indeed! My point was that weight is no indication of quality. To take the argument to its illogical conclusion, a van made from lead would be reassuringly heavy, but could be very poorly made indeed. I assume people mean durable when they speak of quality, and durability can be achieved with light weight, albeit some of the best materials, (aluminium composites for example) are costly. What manufacturers are trying to do is find durable, lightweight, constructions that leave usable payloads on a 3.5 tonne chassis, with enough left over for all those satellite TVs, additional hab batteries, awnings, bike and scooter racks, towbars, etc. etc. that folk love to fit - which immediately reduce the payload to near zero! Yer pays yer money, but you can't have it both ways! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCC Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Curved furniture may look nice in a motorhome but it does come at a price. If you look at the new brand of budget motorhome coming from Europe you can see what can be done if you strip out all of the "extra" cost items and focus on value. Roadcar (the new budget arm of Possl and part of the Hymer group) are offering a 5.4m PVC for 30,000 euro - a bit over £22,000; and a 6m PVc for 33,000 euro which is about £24,500. Yes, they are low spec and there isn't a curve in sight but they do offer the basics. So, you pays your money and you take your choice. I'm sure the budget motorhomes would look and feel rather austere if you compare them side by side with something more upmarket and I don't know what the quality is like, but it's probably easier to make a simpler design robust than a design with more complex shapes. Personally I've always been a fan of the KISS principle. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Most manufacturers have a period when the perceived quality of build is worse than in the past. No manufacturer will continue to exist if it built a bad motorhome. Weight/payload is one of the biggest challenges for manufacturers with the base chassis becoming better specced for ease of use/safety such as twin air bags and better cage protection. This results in manufacturers having to design and build lighter vehicles than in the past so that we can add all those accessories we think we need. Innovation is necessary though sometimes it fails to deliver as evidenced by model changes each year which sees last years big selling point quietly dropped. Environmental issues and other EU legislation also create challenges with targets for the amount of materials that can be recycled at the end of the end of the product's life. Our road system is also knackered, increasing the vibration through the motorhome. My 2013 Hymer had more faults than my 2005 Hymer which had none. However, on delivery, my 2013 Hymer had none and the faults only came to light on the road - none are serious. The design, spec, safety and environmental credentials are so much better on my 2013 model making it a better motorhome overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 We have an expensive German kitchen in our house, with an expensive German cooker etc etc..........It was put in by the previous architect owner, who no doubt like many on here, was under the impression that everything German is good quality ;-) .............. Its now about 14 years old and falling apart, the plastic covered MDF is peeling off the units, the cooker is the worst we've ever owned, and the dishwasher packed up not long after we moved in *-) ........ German engineering superiority is a myth..........But their propaganda machinery IS far superior to ours >:-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Brock - 2015-09-29 10:00 AM environmental credentials are so much better on my 2013 model making it a better motorhome overall. No doubt that'll be down to the software (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I think a lot of the 'cheap and nastiness' of modern motorhomes is the drive to stay within the 3500kg imposed limit, original Autotrails were built 'to a standard' rather than 'down to a target weight' and it now shows, (I am an Autotrail owner). Most of the Continental motorhomes that boast 3500kg, have stupid load margins that cry out to be overloaded, All in all I think that 3500kg is too low a classification for a 'well built' coachbuilt motorhome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 pelmetman - 2015-09-29 11:32 AM We have an expensive German kitchen in our house, with an expensive German cooker etc etc..........It was put in by the previous architect owner, who no doubt like many on here, was under the impression that everything German is good quality ;-) .............. Its now about 14 years old and falling apart, the plastic covered MDF is peeling off the units, the cooker is the worst we've ever owned, and the dishwasher packed up not long after we moved in *-) ........ German engineering superiority is a myth..........But their propaganda machinery IS far superior to ours >:-) ........... That saga is a bit like the 2 litre VW golf I have sitting in my garage with VW emissions debacle hanging over it. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 derek pringle - 2015-09-29 9:21 AM hi all, Most leisure vehicles are nice to look at and by and large do their job,but in my opinion one thing they definitely are NOT is Value For Money. cheers derek I'd agree with that. Spend a few hours surfing on Craigslist under RV's and Campers and it's staggering what you can get in any US state for a fraction of the cost here. I suppose it's all down to volume but i agree, prices of new MH's here in UK are ridiculous and the drop in value over the first few years is reflective of over inflated retail prices. pelmetman - 2015-09-29 11:34 AM Brock - 2015-09-29 10:00 AM environmental credentials are so much better on my 2013 model making it a better motorhome overall. No doubt that'll be down to the software (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Which results in an array of red lights as the computer goes into meltdown "telling" the engine this isn't right and that isn't right, informing the owner to drive directly to the nearest main agent where they are about to relieve you of a couple of grand. *-) Rayjsj - 2015-09-29 12:33 PM I think a lot of the 'cheap and nastiness' of modern motorhomes is the drive to stay within the 3500kg imposed limit, original Autotrails were built 'to a standard' rather than 'down to a target weight' and it now shows, (I am an Autotrail owner). Most of the Continental motorhomes that boast 3500kg, have stupid load margins that cry out to be overloaded, All in all I think that 3500kg is too low a classification for a 'well built' coachbuilt motorhome. All new build cars have gone the same way too. A good 40% of a car body is now plastic and a small bump at front or rear will result in a crazy bill to put half your car back together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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