Mistyscamp Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Hope someone can help, when we run water through the taps all is fine but then when we turn the tap off the pump will run for a few seconds, this is happening every minute. I have cleaned the filter but do not know what else to try before ai give in and buy a new pump. The pump is a shuffle diaphragm pump model 2095 423 343. Help please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Do you mean Shurflo pump? What van is it? How old is it? From what you say it sounds either like air is getting in to the system and the most likely place is one of the connections, or water is seeping out of one of the high pressure joints. Try to trace the the pipework through and ensure it is all bone dry to be sure it is not a high pressure or water leak issue. An air leak will probably leave no water trail as it would be on the suction low pressure side (from tank to pump) rather than the high pressure side (from pump to tap) so check and tighten all the jubilee and pipe and tap clamps and joints and particularly check the filter bowl on the pump itself. If the filter bowl is of the clear plastic screw on type take great care not to overtighten it as they can break quite easily. Next on the list are the non return valves or the diaphragm in the pump itself but that means stripping and cleaning the pump and if you are going to that trouble I would be inclined to get a pump repair kit first. They are not usually hard to source and a Google search should find you a choice of suppliers. These pumps are remarkably durable but the valves and diaphragm can give problems as they age so it should not be too hard to resolve. As a temporary cure just turn the 12 volt supply to the pump off when not in use to prevent excess wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxli Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Hi Does the pump run occasionally for a second when water is not being used? This happened to me and I eventually found that the tap in the WC / Shower was leaking (weeping) under the basin. The water was finding it's way out throught the floor, so we didn't notice until we parked on a steep hill!!!!! Tap replaced and problem solved. Worth checking as previously suggested. Hate to think of the possible long term damage had we not found it. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Could be the adjustable pressure switch set too high so over pressurising the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I would advise against adjusting the pressure switch at this stage until all other possibilities have been resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 ..worth also checking that the boiler drain/dump valve is seating properly, and isn't weeping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistyscamp Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 Thank you all for your answers. Yes it is a shuffle pump and I have checked all joints and leaks from taps and none present. So I think my next step has to be to check the diaphragm. Let's hope this solves my problem, I will let you know. Kind regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 We had the same problem with our Pilote, after checking everything I could think of, it turned out to be the dump valve from the water heater. Being busy with other things we resorted to turning the 12 volts supply off when the pump wasn't being used, intending to change it when I had more time. I subsequently had to drive the van down to our new home in France, and the problem appears to have resolved itself. I shall keep my fingers crossed. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Mistyscamp - 2015-09-29 8:12 PM Thank you all for your answers. Yes it is a shuffle pump and I have checked all joints and leaks from taps and none present. So I think my next step has to be to check the diaphragm. Let's hope this solves my problem, I will let you know. Kind regards If you are sure there are no water leaks, the next step should be to adjust the pump’s pressure-switch. Generic SHURflo guidance is here http://www.holdsworth.vwt4camper.info/SHURfloWaterPumpInstallationAndOperationManualT4WM.pdf If adjusting the switch fails to address the running-on problem and the pump is elderly, it might be better to replace the pump rather than attempt to repair it. However, if you want to try a repair, parts are readily available (supplier example here) http://www.asap-supplies.com/marine/shurflo-pump-valve-kits/shurflo-utility-pump-valve-kit-509959 It needs saying though, that if you fail to accurately diagnose the cause of the running-on, you could end up spending as much on spare parts as buying a complete new pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninian Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Hi, You may also have a high resistance across the switch that stops the pump and it's not breaking the circuit properly all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I don't often disagree with Derek, but I do feel that if the pressure switch was OK before the problem started then adjusting it will not cure the fault properly. It may help in the short term but I have yet to experience any Shurflo pump adjusting it's own pressure to cause a fault, however Derek's experience of these pumps might be different to my own? I do agree though that if the pump is elderly replacing it with a new one might well be more beneficial than fiddling around with spare parts or a service kit, and it should be easier too. Just make sure there are no air or water leaks before and after fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Tracker In 2013 Mistycamp’s motorhome was a 2003 Auto-Trail Tracker EKS purchased by her in 2011 and I’m assuming this is still the case. SHURflo’s troubleshooting advice in the link I provided offers several ‘running-on’ possibilities and incorrect pressure-switch operation/adjustment is last on the list. There’s also a “Switch Shut-Off” section that should help to determine whether adjustment is likely to help and - if this seems to be the case - how to make an adjustment. If Mistyscamp follows SHURflo’s troubleshooting advice regarding things that can be checked external to the pump (eg. water leaks) and nothing is found, before contemplating dismantling the pump or purchasing spare parts on a guesswork basis, surely the sensible thing to do would be to follow SHURflo’s guidance and try adjusting the pressure-switch. It may well be the case that the pressure-switch is functioning perfectly and that the reason for the running-on is elsewhere, but suggesting that SHURflo’s advice regarding pressure-switch adjustment should be ignored (which is what you appear to be doing) seems counter-productive to me. Assuming that access to the pump is OK, adjustment of the switch is not difficult. If adjustment does not cure the problem, then at least it will have been tried. And if adjustment only cures the problem temporarily, at least that will be better than nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Derek. I understand where you are coming from with this but I still feel that if the pressure was OK previously and it has not been adjusted in any way then there must be a problem elsewhere and adjusting the pressure might cure the problem but only by masking the real issue and I stand by my reasoning that personally I would not fiddle with the pressure without some kind of proof - like pressure testing the water flow - that it needs alteration. Not based on Shurflo's hopefully expertise in their own products for sure, but based on experience and what I rightly or wrongly see as common sense in not trying to cure one fault by introducing another so we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Mistyscamp - 2015-09-29 8:12 PM ... and I have checked all joints and leaks from taps and none present... Kind regards Hi But it's not just the "from taps" bit that needs checking, you'd need to check every joint in the system.. ..and without dismantling furniture and stripping apart the loo/shower room, I can't see how you'd get to do that anyway... Have you *checked or tried operating, the boiler dump valve a few times?.. ( *slide a newspaper under the van, where the valve tube exits and see if it shows signs of weeping). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Far and away the most common cause of pump running on in my experience is air in the system and whilst water will not compress, air will causing the pump to run on for a few seconds before stopping. It's a classic symptom! Firstly ensure all taps and the shower head are running clear and hiccup free with no trace of any air in the system. If that does not help try draining the tank and refilling and purging the air again. If there are no water leaks I would suspect that there is air getting in between the tank and the pump diaphragm and these air leaks being on the suction side can often not show any trace of water which makes them very hard to find. I would pay particular attention to the pipework from the water pickup inside the tank to the input side of the pump and filter and if that proves sound check the pump valves for dirt or or poor sealing then the pump diaphragm for holes. It may well yet come down to a faulty pump but as it is only a few years old and Shurflo pumps in my experience are extremely well made and reliable I would on the balance of probabilities as I see it suspect the pipework rather than the pump at this stage if for no other reason than I for one would be rather miffed if I bought a new pump and it didn't cure the problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Tracker - 2015-10-02 6:36 PM Derek. I understand where you are coming from with this but I still feel that if the pressure was OK previously and it has not been adjusted in any way then there must be a problem elsewhere and adjusting the pressure might cure the problem but only by masking the real issue and I stand by my reasoning that personally I would not fiddle with the pressure without some kind of proof - like pressure testing the water flow - that it needs alteration. Not based on Shurflo's hopefully expertise in their own products for sure, but based on experience and what I rightly or wrongly see as common sense in not trying to cure one fault by introducing another so we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. SHURflo’s troubleshooting guidance for a “Pump will not shut-off/runs when tap is closed” situation suggests six potential causes. These include things that can be checked fairly easily (like water leaks and low battery voltage), things that will require mechanical attention to the pump, and adjusting the pressure-switch. The problem Janet (Mistyscamp) describes “...when we run water through the taps all is fine but then when we turn the tap off the pump will run for a few seconds, this is happening every minute." would certainly occur if there were a significant water leak on the pump’s outlet side, but there’s apparently no evidence of such a leak. The reason that the pump cycles repeatedly after the taps are closed is because the pump’s pressure-switch either detects a genuine loss in pressure on the pump’s outlet side (ie. there’s a major water leak) or there’s something wrong with the pump. Janet was considering checking the condition of the pump’s diaphragm, but (assuming there is actually no water leak) the prime suspect should be the pressure-switch. The latter can be adjusted experimentally (as SHURflo advises) but even if that fails to cure the problem the pressure-switch remains the prime suspect. It’s undoubtedly the case that something is causing this problem and (given Janet’s description) it’s more likely to be the pressure-switch having become faulty than the diaphragm being the cause. If Janet chooses to ignore Shurflo’s advice about adjusting the pressure-switch that’s up to her, but that would be my next-step choice rather than dismantling the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-10-03 10:07 AM If Janet chooses to ignore Shurflo’s advice about adjusting the pressure-switch that’s up to her, but that would be my next-step choice rather than dismantling the pump. You may be right but I still find it hard to understand why, if the pump was working OK one day and now suddenly it is not, the pressure adjustment would be at fault - unless it has adjusted itself? Therefore if it were mine the last thing I would do is fiddle about with the pressure adjustment, if for no other reason than in over 50 years of dealing with practically every known water problem in motorhomes at one time or another I have never needed to adjust a pressure switch nor have I ever known one adjust itself. So I still suspect an air or water leak to be the culprit and failing that a leaky pump valve or diaphragm. But I could just as easily be wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 An air leak would have to occur on the SHURflo pump’s inlet side (ie. between the pump and the water intake in the fresh-water tank) and MIGHT produce the problem Janet has described if sufficient air accumulated in a water-boiler’s tank. But I don’t see that as a realistic possibility and, in any case, a significant ‘upstream’ air leak would result in noticeable symptoms such as difficulty priming the water system and serious spitting at taps as the water + air mixture was expelled. Janet makes no mention of such symptoms and, in fact, says “...when we run water through the taps all is fine...” An upstream air leak may also result in some water leakage from, say, a hose joint or a cracked filter bowl, but a sufficiently serious leakage in the system ‘downstream of the pump (ie. on its outlet side) to produce the repeated cycling Janet refers to is going to cause a lot of pressurised water being lost from the system. As pepe63 says, it’s no good just visually checking internal hose/tap joints for leakage if the water is spurting out through a drain-valve - one needs to look carefully under the vehicle to see if water is pouring out there. Let’s assume that Janet has made all the basic checks that can be done without dismantling the pump and found nothing unusual. The remaining choices involve trying the pressure-switch adjustment as suggested by SHURflo that can (quite likely) be done without removing the pump, or to remove the pump and bench-test it to establish what’s wrong. The latter investigation might prove that a valve has become faulty, or that there’s some debris in the pump, or that the pressure-switch has developed a fault. There’s no particular reason to expect a SHURflo pump’s pressure-switch in perfect working order to need adjustment or that the switch can spontaneously alter its setting, but these switches are not immortal and they can become faulty. A GOOGLE-search will easily confirm this and plainly SHURflo recognise this as the company markets a front-housing/switch repair ‘kit’ for these pumps. What this boils down to is that - if Janet can’t find any water leaks - she either tries adjusting the pressure-switch or removes and dismantles the pump. If adjusting the switch doesn’t help, then she will have to remove/dismantle/repair the pump or just decide to replace it. But experimenting with adjusting the pressure-switch won’t do any harm and just might do some good. I‘m pretty risk averse when it comes to advising on DIY, but I wouldn’t hesitate to try adjusting the switch myself because I believe it MIGHT address the problem and, even if switch-adjustment did nothing positive, it could still be helpful in deciding where else in the pump the problem lay and whether or not to opt for repair or straight replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Mistyscamp - 2015-09-28 8:32 PM Hope someone can help, when we run water through the taps all is fine but then when we turn the tap off the pump will run for a few seconds, this is happening every minute. I have cleaned the filter but do not know what else to try before ai give in and buy a new pump. The pump is a shuffle diaphragm pump model 2095 423 343. Help please. The only time that this has happened to me, it turned out to be a leak somwhere in the system, and the pump was doing exactly whaat it is meant to do : maintain the pressure at the pump. Look for leaks, at joints,or from connections to water heater or dump valves. Ray 'Shuffle' is what 'Tablet and Smartphone' spell checkers correct 'Shurflo' to.....not so 'Smart'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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