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130 or 150 bhp?


candapack

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TrevR - 2015-10-15 11:39 AM

 

Charles - 2015-10-14 7:11 PM

 

So does anyone know what torque the 2.2 Ford Puma is in the Peugeot Boxer?

 

All I know is it's 130BHP and definitely a Puma as it's marked on the engine mounting bracket.

 

Charles

 

According to this web site it seems that torque for the 2.2 130bhp is 320 Nm (Boxer 3 Euro 5)

 

http://www.chipexpress.com/products/3574/

 

 

Thanks Trev, same as the Fiat then.

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Hi

In response to Brock, I was only getting 24.4 MPG prior to the re-map. To be fair I hadn't done any 'long' runs only plenty of short journeys mainly covering rural roads. Whilst still maintaining a similar pattern of journeys my MPG has gone up to 29.6MPG. Some of this could be down to the engine running in or me getting more used to the new motorhome. I used Quantrum for the re-map after reading a recent article in the MMM.

Dave

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bolero boy - 2015-10-15 11:35 AM

 

Billggski - 2015-10-15 10:48 AM

 

Locally a remap is £200 plus VAT, I assume the £900 it's the difference on a new vehicle, the best remaps includes a before and after rolling road print out?

 

does the Fiat 150 engine not have variable vane turbo technology?.....ie the turbo is different as well as any 'mapping' changes?

 

any purely 'mapped' changes are electronics only, rather than a physical change, too.....?

 

Yes, that's what I meant, £200 for an ecu remap, £900 for the 150 engine on a new Moho. It is different.

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A remap will take a 2.3 engine from 129PS to 170PS and 320Nm to 405Nm for £295, plus an improvement in MPG.

 

It doesn't seem to have any drawbacks as quite a few companies that run large fleets do it as normal practice.

 

A kit system seems the best way to go as you can remove it when you sell the van and then put it on the new one, it only takes a few minutes and if it's a different engine it can be sent off to be upgraded, usually free of charge.

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I had 130 in the last van and have a 150 in current van, well worth the extra.

Generally the 130 was fine, but the on place it did struggle was on mountain hairpins, if it slowed to a point where you lost turbo boost the engine almost dies and makes it difficut to get going again half way round a 1 in 3 hairpin. The 150 with the variable vane turbo and max torque at low revs it copes much better.

When I buy the next van it will definitely be a 150 would like a 3lt but hard to justify the cost.

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On pages 8 and 9 of this document

 

https://www.fiatcamper.com/site/documents/ing_int_ducatocamper_.pdf

 

power/torque curves are shown for the 4 motors one might anticipate finding in motorhomes based on the latest Fiat Ducato. (The 2.0litre 115 Multijet powerplant would only be fitted to LHD vehicles).

 

In 2011 - when Euro 5 engines became available for Ducato - the German motothome magazine ProMobil carried out a comparative test using four 7-metre-long TEC Rotec manual transmission low-profile motorhomes identical in specification other than their motor. Each vehicle was ballasted to 3500kg and dynamometer power/torque measurements were taken, together with on-road measurements of acceleration, maximum speed, fuel consumption and noise. Regarding the 130 and 150 Multijet motors, the conclusion was that the former was OK for PVCs and lightish coachbuilts and the latter was perfect for all types of motorhome.

 

There should be little doubt that, if one followed ProMobil’s testing philosophy and drove a motorhome with the 130 Multijet motor and another with the 150 Multijet motor on an exact like-for-like vehicle-specification and back-to-back basis, the difference in performance should be noticeable.

 

Whether that difference merits paying the price-increase demanded by motorhome manufacturers for ‘upgrading’ from the 130-MJ to the 150-MJ is really unquantifiable - you’ll either go for the 150-MJ option and hang the expense (as I did) or you won’t. I thought I’d like the extra performance, but I treat my motorhome as a big expensive toy and could justify the extra cost as a result even though I was confident the 130-MJ motor would have been ‘adequate’. An upgrade from the 130-MJ to the 3.0litre 180-MJ motor was not an option for the motorhome I was buying, so I could not be tempted and (truth to tell) I’m sure I could not have justified to myself that paying the really large price-increase involved in opting for the bigger motor would have been worthwhile.

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candapack - 2015-10-14 7:24 AM

 

New Fiat based coach built. Max weight 3650kg. Will not be towing.

Standard model has the 2300, 130 bhp unit.

My question is, is that good enough, or is it worth spending £900 on the 150 upgrade?

If you think you will be running at between 3,500kg and 3,650kg, then I think you may find you regret not going for the 150hp version, if that is your decision. I'm sure the 130 will do the job, but the 150 will do it better.

 

Ours is plated at 3,700 kg, and runs at about 3,500 +/- and has the 150hp engine. It has so far done 15,000 miles, and the engine is just coming "on song", and I'm glad I got the 150 for its hill climbing capability - albeit some of the "hills" have been the Alps, where the climb goes on rather longer than is the case in UK! :-D

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I have never had an 150bhp van, although have tried one, but cannot see the point unless you have a really heavy van. I reckon to do more mountain passes than most and our old 2008, 100bhp, 3500kg van never had any problems even with a 100kg scooter on a rack. The suggestion that a 130 bhp van had problems with hairpins I would suggest is more down to poor driving than a lack of power. The difference between my old 100bhp van and the 130bhp van is not really that great and both worked fine so would see no great difference between 130bhp to 150bhp. Not sure how others use their vans but we are rarely in a hurry to get anywhere and even if we are fail to see an extra 20bhp would make any difference at all.
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As mikebeaches posted on page one of this string, the figures for the 130 and the 150 are as follows:

130 MultiJet II Euro 5+

Displacement: 2287 cm3

Power: 130 HP

Max Torque: 320 Nm at 1800 rpm

 

 

150 MultiJet II Euro 5+

Displacement: 2287 cm3

Power: 148 HP

Max Torque: 350 Nm at 1500 rpm

 

It isn't just the 20 extra gee-gees that make the difference, Henry, it is those in conjunction with the 30 extra Nm torque at 300 less rpm and, if I remember correctly, a flatter torque curve to boot. Next time you try a 150, try to get it one that is fully laden, and fully run-in, rather than empty and (presumably) new. I'm not claiming it is spectacularly different, just that for a laden 3,650kg van, it is likely to give a more relaxed and enjoyable drive.

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Brian Kirby - 2015-10-16 9:10 PM

 

As mikebeaches posted on page one of this string, the figures for the 130 and the 150 are as follows:

130 MultiJet II Euro 5+

Displacement: 2287 cm3

Power: 130 HP

Max Torque: 320 Nm at 1800 rpm

 

 

150 MultiJet II Euro 5+

Displacement: 2287 cm3

Power: 148 HP

Max Torque: 350 Nm at 1500 rpm

 

It isn't just the 20 extra gee-gees that make the difference, Henry, it is those in conjunction with the 30 extra Nm torque at 300 less rpm and, if I remember correctly, a flatter torque curve to boot. Next time you try a 150, try to get it one that is fully laden, and fully run-in, rather than empty and (presumably) new. I'm not claiming it is spectacularly different, just that for a laden 3,650kg van, it is likely to give a more relaxed and enjoyable drive.

 

Once again, the info gleaned on this forum is very useful. In this case, I have now done the deal on a 130 HP engine. For a couple of reasons (cost and timescale). I'm very happy with that. I reckon that less than 5% of driving time will be spent negotiating steep hills, which I am very used to with all manner of vehicles.

For those interested, I am posting a new thread relating to towing weights, where I am very confused.

Cheers.

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Brian Kirby - 2015-10-16 9:10 PM

 

As mikebeaches posted on page one of this string, the figures for the 130 and the 150 are as follows:

130 MultiJet II Euro 5+

Displacement: 2287 cm3

Power: 130 HP

Max Torque: 320 Nm at 1800 rpm

 

 

150 MultiJet II Euro 5+

Displacement: 2287 cm3

Power: 148 HP

Max Torque: 350 Nm at 1500 rpm

 

It isn't just the 20 extra gee-gees that make the difference, Henry, it is those in conjunction with the 30 extra Nm torque at 300 less rpm and, if I remember correctly, a flatter torque curve to boot. Next time you try a 150, try to get it one that is fully laden, and fully run-in, rather than empty and (presumably) new. I'm not claiming it is spectacularly different, just that for a laden 3,650kg van, it is likely to give a more relaxed and enjoyable drive.

While I cannot argue with your figures Brian I still fail to see the point. The difference in both hp and torque is to small and can easily be overcome with a slight change in driving, which I assume we all do anyway when changing from our cars to van. Still it is everyone's own choice whether to waste their money or not and having done just that no one is ever going to admit it. (lol)

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I'm always amazed when on some of the alpine roads you see a large truck coming towards you and wonder how did he make it up here.

 

A 7.5 tonne with only 160bhp or a 15 tonne with 240bhp all on a 6 speed box with a bit lower ratios than your average van, these are just your normal rigid delivery trucks, with supplies.

 

Bet they would like the power of a 130bhp motorhome

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Agaric - 2015-10-17 3:46 PM

 

I'm always amazed when on some of the alpine roads you see a large truck coming towards you and wonder how did he make it up here.

 

A 7.5 tonne with only 160bhp or a 15 tonne with 240bhp all on a 6 speed box with a bit lower ratios than your average van, these are just your normal rigid delivery trucks, with supplies.

 

Bet they would like the power of a 130bhp motorhome

 

...yes, but as Brian points out above, in these circumstances torque will matter more.

 

A modern 156bhp Merc Truck might well have at least 650Nm available from as low as 1200rpm.

 

..bet many motorhome owners would like the torque of a 156bhp truck....;-)

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I found a detailed and extensive review of the Fiat Ducato on the Daily Telegraph's Honest John website, in which I read with interest what it says about the 2.3L 130 Euro 5 engine (and the others).

 

http://vans.honestjohn.co.uk/van-top-10s/top-10-most-economical-large-vans/

 

Six pages of information:

 

http://vans.honestjohn.co.uk/van-reviews/fiat/ducato-2006/

 

http://vans.honestjohn.co.uk/van-reviews/fiat/ducato-2006/?section=driving

 

http://vans.honestjohn.co.uk/van-reviews/fiat/ducato-2006/?section=using

 

http://vans.honestjohn.co.uk/van-reviews/fiat/ducato-2006/?section=history

 

http://vans.honestjohn.co.uk/van-reviews/fiat/ducato-2006/?section=good

 

http://vans.honestjohn.co.uk/van-reviews/fiat/ducato-2006/?section=specs

 

It contains masses of facts and figures across the range of Ducato vans available in the UK. However, I'm not absolutely certain every item of data is 100% correct, especially as it appears the original article was written years ago, and then has been continuously updated (but how accurately?). At least it has up-to-date images to illustrate the feature... ;-)

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