Medication.....How long are you out of the UK?

[Bulletguy]

 

OK i've raised this issue in the past but now taken it a stage further by contacting my MP who put the matter before the Health Secretary. I've now had a reply, which i'm not happy with and intend to respond but need to know some 'info' from others in the same position.

 

The question is only relevant to those with pre-existing medical conditions requiring regular medication.

 

What i want to know is if you travel outside the UK above three months, does your GP issue you with a prescription to cover the length of period you are away for? If so, have you experienced any problem in obtaining it or has your GP simply asked how long you need it to cover?

 

 

[candapack]

I'm unlikely to be away for more than 3 months at a time, so just make sure with repeat prescription juggling that I have enough HBP pills before I go.

 

But, I have wondered how easy or otherwise it would be to have a UK issued prescription filled by a pharmacist on the Continent. Would it be different in EU/non EU countries?

Would be interested to hear from folk who have done just that.

[Bulletguy]

 

A UK prescription can't be used at Pharmacies outside the UK, but even if it could, that still wouldn't help me with the problems i'm having. Given that many motorhome folk are retirees and in the 'older' bracket, i suspect a fair few to be on medication and i want to hear their experiences if out of the UK for 3 months or more.

[sshortcircuit]

Unlikely to be out more than three months and at present doctor gives prescription no problem. I understand most medications can be purchased over the counter so would not see and problems in obtaining.

Are you suggesting an endless supply of medication?

[Tiggy]

Got a good doctor, he gave me 9 months prescription for a trip round Aus, about 1/2 my luggage was pills on the way out, he even gave me a letter explaining why I had so much medication with me. Some of the locum doctors that they use stick by the rules and refuse to give me large quantities but my normal GP is great.

[davec]

I am going to Europe for 4 months starting November and returning in march . My GP has just issued me with 4 months supply. I have heard of other people where there GP will only issue 3 months supply. I think it just depends on your GP. B-)

[ian81]

I believe there are reciprocal arrangements in the EU. We have managed to get a French prescription filled in the UK and our French pharamacist tells me he will honour a non French prescription. In both cases as long as they can understand what is required and dosage.

 

We have purchased prescription drugs without any difficulties by just showing the box in Spain.

Out of the EU the issue is more likely that some drugs are not stocked locally, but generally they are happy to help. (Turkey, Georgia)

[PJay]

I take enough meds for 3 months.(which is the our limit in time) As has been said UK prescriptions cannot be dispensed outside UK. You should be able to get what you need abroad, but will have to pay, and can be very expensive ( I was quoted 94 Euros for some pills , which I get free in UK) not sure if you can recover the cost on your insurance Officially GP.s should only subscribe for 2 months at a time, but some will give more. We both have medication, and have to take a large box full with us I always take a copy of prescription with us, just in case we have a problem

Make sure your house/travel ins allows for long times away from home.

PJay

[Bulletguy]

sshortcircuit - 2015-10-24 8:16 AM

 

Are you suggesting an endless supply of medication?

No.

 

Tiggy - 2015-10-24 9:59 AM

 

Got a good doctor, he gave me 9 months prescription for a trip round Aus, about 1/2 my luggage was pills on the way out, he even gave me a letter explaining why I had so much medication with me. Some of the locum doctors that they use stick by the rules and refuse to give me large quantities but my normal GP is great.

Incredible......i find this simply staggering. Read below and you will see why but your reply is exactly the type i'm looking for. I only wish i could say the same about my GP who isn't a locum either.

 

davec - 2015-10-24 10:02 AM

 

I am going to Europe for 4 months starting November and returning in march . My GP has just issued me with 4 months supply. I have heard of other people where there GP will only issue 3 months supply. I think it just depends on your GP. B-)

In a nutshell your post pretty much best sums up my problem.

 

The NHS 'rule' on medication is 2 month supply but GP's tend to 'allow a little leeway' as mine put it, and will issue me with 3 months.......but that's yer lot, be bloody grateful, don't dare ask for more because you aren't getting it.

 

This has severely restricted my travel so i decided to contact my MP to see if he could help as i knew there were people experiencing the absolute opposite to me (poster Tiggy being just one example). In other words, the 'rules' are being bent.

 

I could photocopy the reply my MP had back from Jeremy Hunts office but it's quite lengthy and i'm not sure it would be right to do so in a forum though anyone who wants to check out what i'm saying is welcome to pm me for a copy. Here is the important part quoted verbatim;

 

"As a general rule, patients travelling abroad for short periods may receive treatment under the NHS for pre-existing medical conditions.....We do not normally specify the period for which prescriptions may be issued as that decision is best made by the patients GP. When doctors prescribe drugs they are clinically and legally responsible for any results of that decision to prescribe. In view of this, it would not be considered good clinical practice for a doctor to prescribe large amounts of drugs to a patient going abroad for an extended period of time whose progress that GP is not able to monitor.

 

Furthermore, a four month supply would not be permitted, as under the NHS (General Medical Services Contracts) Regulations 2004, where a person for whose treatment a doctor is responsible leaves the UK, with the intention of being away for a period of at least three months, that person is removed from the doctor's list and as a consequence, cease to be eligible for NHS treatment."

 

Now, my medication is neither dangerous nor addictive. I know of one person, a diabetic on insulin who is given her supply as a 6 month lot in one go.....not 6x1 monthly....six months at once. As she told me, insulin is dangerous and if you don't know what you're doing, just one week supply is enough to kill.

 

A friend of mine is on a right cocktail of drugs for cancer and heart problems plus he also has a pacemaker now. They spend 4-5 months of the year over winter in Spain every year. His GP simply tells them, 'let me know when you are leaving and i'll have the prescription ready'.......job done. But he lives 15 miles from me so it's not as though i could go to his GP.

 

I'm under the impression, and posts such as yours and Tiggy's further convinces me of this, that despite Jeremy Hunts office wagging the finger and quoting the NHS Regulations 2004, there is no consistency with adherence to 'the rules'. In short.....the Dept of Health are saying that your GP's are acting illegally.

 

[starvin marvin]

Fortunately I don't have this problem, however when I'm illl abroad I just go to a doctor and speak to them. Simples.

 

This happened in Spain when I saw a doctor re chilblains she told me with a perfectly straight face that she found these occur to people who eat too much salad, and that I should eat more red meat and drink more red wine. Now that's what you call a prescription.

[Brian Kirby]

Doctors are professionals, and have to make, and stand by, their own judgements. They are also individuals, so will have differing approaches to rules. I think this is all you are seeing.

 

If you push too hard, to the extent that the DoH begins to think widespread liberties are being taken, the result is liable to be a crackdown on prescribing that will remove the element of leniency some doctors are currently prepared to apply to the rules. Others will then suffer.

 

If your doctor will prescribe three months at a time, and you are on repeat prescriptions, submit a three month repeat prescription request a month or so before you travel, get the medication, then submit the resulting repeat prescription request closer to the time you will leave, and you should end up with about five months supply. In short, use the three month repeats to build up a stock.

 

The doctor may check to see when your previous prescription was issued, but most are very busy so the probable outcome will be that s/he will not. Even if s/he does spot what you have done s/he will probably ring you, or ask you to ring back, to check. You can then explain that the three months alone will not be sufficient for the duration of your trip, so you put in for a further supply to ensure you had some medication in hand, in case of a delayed return. You should then end up with two overlapping repeat prescription request forms, allowing you to do this in future, with no-one admitting to anything more serious than responding to your prescription requests, so nothing incriminating is said.

 

That avoids breaking the rules, even if it involves a bit of "constructive blind-man's-buff"! Don't kick the pricks - bend them! :-D

[Bulletguy]

starvin marvin - 2015-10-24 5:38 PM

 

Fortunately I don't have this problem, however when I'm illl abroad I just go to a doctor and speak to them. Simples.

 

This happened in Spain when I saw a doctor re chilblains she told me with a perfectly straight face that she found these occur to people who eat too much salad, and that I should eat more red meat and drink more red wine. Now that's what you call a prescription.

Not quite what the thread is about actually!

 

If chilblains was all i had to worry about i wouldn't be contacting my MP!

[Bulletguy]

Brian Kirby - 2015-10-24 6:02 PM

 

Doctors are professionals, and have to make, and stand by, their own judgements. They are also individuals, so will have differing approaches to rules. I think this is all you are seeing.

 

If you push too hard, to the extent that the DoH begins to think widespread liberties are being taken, the result is liable to be a crackdown on prescribing that will remove the element of leniency some doctors are currently prepared to apply to the rules. Others will then suffer.

I know that. But it's blatantly obvious that 'widespread liberties' is exactly that......widespread.

 

Forgive me if sounding a tad bitter but i've gone through virtually my entire life with this medication, 58 years to be precise. So now, in my twilight years after working continually for 45 years paying taxes into the system, i find my little bit of pleasure being severely curtailed, i think anyone would feel the same....especially knowing that others are given carte blanche facility by their GP.

 

If your doctor will prescribe three months at a time, and you are on repeat prescriptions, submit a three month repeat prescription request a month or so before you travel, get the medication, then submit the resulting repeat prescription request closer to the time you will leave, and you should end up with about five months supply. In short, use the three month repeats to build up a stock.

 

The doctor may check to see when your previous prescription was issued, but most are very busy so the probable outcome will be that s/he will not. Even if s/he does spot what you have done s/he will probably ring you, or ask you to ring back, to check. You can then explain that the three months alone will not be sufficient for the duration of your trip, so you put in for a further supply to ensure you had some medication in hand, in case of a delayed return. You should then end up with two overlapping repeat prescription request forms, allowing you to do this in future, with no-one admitting to anything more serious than responding to your prescription requests, so nothing incriminating is said.

 

That avoids breaking the rules, even if it involves a bit of "constructive blind-man's-buff"! Don't kick the pricks - bend them! :-D

No chance. Not with mine. The surgery is small though doubt thats much to do with it, but both the GP and the surgery know exactly when my last issue was. I have 6 x 1 monthlies but they are recorded. I've tried obtaining an 'over lap' prescription before but within minutes they tell me "but you already have a months supply left so you can't have another until that's spent". They access their database.

 

My problems began when a new Pharmacist took over and refused to issue a block amount without the prescription stating so. The previous Pharmacist simply gave me what i needed to cover me. She's now moved to another Pharmacy and i can't find out out where. If i knew, i could go to her and she'd give me 4 or 5 months. I wouldn't have this problem if she was still there.

[Brian Kirby]

If I understand correctly, you get 6 months at a time? Won't the GP take into account what you alrdey have and prescribe the balance to bring you back to a full six months just before you leave, or do you want to go for more than 6 months? If the GP is prescribing 6 months that is already double the normal limit, so why would issuing a top up for 4 or 5 months only, be a problem? Seems a bit "picky" to me. Have you tried asking for a smaller quantity, or is it an over-zealous receptionist just imposing her own rules?

[Bulletguy]

Brian Kirby - 2015-10-24 7:41 PM

 

If I understand correctly, you get 6 months at a time?

 

No.....i'm on 6 x one monthly prescriptions issued by the GP in a batch. The Pharmacist then dispenses (eg), November, then i go again to him for December supply, then again for January and so on. He cannot and will not dispense more than ONE month at a time.

 

To go away the GP must give ONE single prescription to cover the entire period. So 3 months which is the legal max, would be one prescription......but as you've seen from other postings, the 'rules' are obviously being bent. My GP won't do this. His max is 3 month. Tiggys GP is giving her 9 months and Davec's 4 months. Can you see now why 1) there is no consistency and 2) the reason i'm bitter?

 

There is another reason Pharmacists don't like ONE single prescriptions. They get paid per prescription so can make more money from 6 x 1 monthlies than they could off a ONE SINGLE prescription 6 month supply.

 

[tugga]

We don't go for as long as you but we do usually need 3 prescriptions at a time for our main summer holiday. Our GP gives us 6 prescriptions that we have to give to the chemist, we are not able to keep them ourselves. When we go away, we just ask for 3 month supply to cover our holiday and the chemist gives us the pills. We are lucky that we live in a very small town and our chemist - Pete knows most of his patients and is flexible, but I do give them notice that we are wanting 3 next time the month before. If we have a locum chemist because Pete is not around, we possibly could encounter a problem, but I would stand and argue the point.

 

This is probably like the hospital Postcode Lottery, it depends where you live as to the service you get. :-S

[sshortcircuit]

I would assume that solution is that prescription should only be issued for three months with no exceptions? I would have thought in this electronic age quite easy to enforce.

[jupe]

Yes we go away for between 4 - 6mths at a time. I am T2 diabetic but use insulin now along with all my other pills. My GP practice only gives me a 2 month prescription each time BUT I can then just request another prescription without seeing my GP(it takes over a month to get an appointment anyway!!!) - so what's the problem about giving me a 4 month prescription to start with! Last year I left a repeat request with my son, so after we'd been away for a couple of months he took it in to the GP's practice, the prescription was signed off and filled by the pharmacy. My son then sent my medication out to me at the campsite in Spain where we were staying in order to receive my meds by post. This worked but at the time I didn't need anymore insulin. However a couple of months later, worrying I might run out I asked in a pharmacy and they gave me exactly the same type I use - I did have to pay but it was only E50 which was enough for 3mths!!! The medication my husband needs is easily bought at a very cheap price in Spain. We have always found pharmacies in mainland Europe to be very helpful, one year I forgot to pack my glucose testing kit, a French pharmacy happily gave me another one for free .

Jupe

[Bulletguy]

tugga - 2015-10-24 8:18 PM

 

We don't go for as long as you but we do usually need 3 prescriptions at a time for our main summer holiday. Our GP gives us 6 prescriptions that we have to give to the chemist, we are not able to keep them ourselves. When we go away, we just ask for 3 month supply to cover our holiday and the chemist gives us the pills.

 

We are lucky that we live in a very small town and our chemist - Pete knows most of his patients and is flexible, but I do give them notice that we are wanting 3 next time the month before. If we have a locum chemist because Pete is not around, we possibly could encounter a problem, but I would stand and argue the point.

 

This is probably like the hospital Postcode Lottery, it depends where you live as to the service you get. :-S

 

The emboldened is how my previous Pharmacist used to operate. They aren't supposed to as they are actually breaking the law in doing so which yours is unless it's one single prescription for 3 months.

 

I don't even live in a small town.....i live in a village. Short of moving altogether (and even that wouldn't guarantee a solution) i can't see any other way than to fight with what bits of ammunition i have left which isn't much. I'm angry/bitter for the reasons which can easily be seen from other posts where their GP's are not just lenient, but, according to the Dept of Health, would be deemed as acting illegally.

 

[Cliffy]

 

 

 

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1755.aspx

 

This makes it clear that it depends on the GP. As usual it sounds very open to interpretation until someone goes to the high court for a definitive answer.

 

 

[Bulletguy]

Cliffy - 2015-10-24 10:09 PM

 

 

 

 

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1755.aspx

 

This makes it clear that it depends on the GP. As usual it sounds very open to interpretation until someone goes to the high court for a definitive answer.

 

 

Except what that is NOT stating is possibly the most important as quoted in my third post, taken from the letter i received from the Dept of Health;

 

Furthermore, a four month supply would not be permitted, as under the NHS (General Medical Services Contracts) Regulations 2004, where a person for whose treatment a doctor is responsible leaves the UK, with the intention of being away for a period of at least three months, that person is removed from the doctor's list and as a consequence, cease to be eligible for NHS treatment."

 

According to that Regulation, not only is a 4 month supply of medication "not permitted", but remain absent from the UK over three months and "you will be removed from your GP's list and no longer eligible for NHS treatment."

 

Now we all know this is absolute b**lox.

 

How many Brit retirees 'winter' in Spain year in year out?

 

And who could forget the infamous King family who used the NHS to perform major brain surgery to their son, only for Mr King and his wife to 'abduct' their son from the clutches of the Hospital and flee to their home in Spain.......where (according to his Spanish lawyer) they've been resident for six years. So how did he obtain NHS care....and why when the s**t hit the fan, did Jeremy Hunt of all people, step in and offer them second opinions from their choice of Oncologists?

[Klyne]

I thought the rule about leave of absence from the UK and having to reapply to the NHS only applied to the under 65's (which of course you may be) I thought there was a second rule that allowed people over 65 to be away from the UK for six months without needing to reapply?

 

Have you actually sat down and discussed this with your doctor? If you can order your medication online without actually seeing the doctor, for example from abroad, you could perhaps point out the absurdity of that situation! Are any of your medications unlikely to be available over the counter if you produce the second copy of your prescription? Would the doctor give you a private prescription? At the end of the day you have to decide whether it is worth souring your relationship with your doctor if you persist in what you see as an injustice.

 

I can understand your frustration that some people seem to be able to get prescriptions to cover longer stays abroad despite them apparently being against the rules but if you take your campaign too far we could end up with an equality of misery rather than an equality of opportunity.

 

David

[Cliffy]

EligibilityNHSPrescriptionsGUI201504V2.0FINAL

Bulletguy - 2015-10-24 11:17 PM

 

Cliffy - 2015-10-24 10:09 PM

 

 

 

 

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1755.aspx

 

This makes it clear that it depends on the GP. As usual it sounds very open to interpretation until someone goes to the high court for a definitive answer.

 

 

Except what that is NOT stating is possibly the most important as quoted in my third post, taken from the letter i received from the Dept of Health;

 

Furthermore, a four month supply would not be permitted, as under the NHS (General Medical Services Contracts) Regulations 2004, where a person for whose treatment a doctor is responsible leaves the UK, with the intention of being away for a period of at least three months, that person is removed from the doctor's list and as a consequence, cease to be eligible for NHS treatment."

 

According to that Regulation, not only is a 4 month supply of medication "not permitted", but remain absent from the UK over three months and "you will be removed from your GP's list and no longer eligible for NHS treatment."

 

Now we all know this is absolute b**lox.

 

How many Brit retirees 'winter' in Spain year in year out?

 

And who could forget the infamous King family who used the NHS to perform major brain surgery to their son, only for Mr King and his wife to 'abduct' their son from the clutches of the Hospital and flee to their home in Spain.......where (according to his Spanish lawyer) they've been resident for six years. So how did he obtain NHS care....and why when the s**t hit the fan, did Jeremy Hunt of all people, step in and offer them second opinions from their choice of Oncologists?

 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=nhs+prescription+rules&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CCsQFjAEahUKEwj95sWCqNzIAhXBXRoKHYynCYU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmidessexccg.nhs.uk%2Fyour-nhs%2Fmedicines-management%2Fprescribing-policy-statements%2Fdoc_download%2F356-eligibility-for-nhs-prescriptions-and-living-abroad-april-2015&usg=AFQjCNGu2x0ABS6CzR-SYF7sLv9iU93HFw&sig2=AK3EMplmU6bcvv_NtZThwg

This probably confirms your point, even if you don't live in Essex.

 

[Bulletguy]

Klyne - 2015-10-25 12:22 AM

 

I thought the rule about leave of absence from the UK and having to reapply to the NHS only applied to the under 65's (which of course you may be) I thought there was a second rule that allowed people over 65 to be away from the UK for six months without needing to reapply?

 

I am over 65 but no it's not age related at all.......it's what they term as a 'residency' issue. Bloody bonkers but bear with me and will try and explain further.

 

Have you actually sat down and discussed this with your doctor? If you can order your medication online without actually seeing the doctor, for example from abroad, you could perhaps point out the absurdity of that situation! Are any of your medications unlikely to be available over the counter if you produce the second copy of your prescription? Would the doctor give you a private prescription? At the end of the day you have to decide whether it is worth souring your relationship with your doctor if you persist in what you see as an injustice.

 

Tried discussing earlier this year prior to going away but was getting nowhere....plus running out of time and patience! He's as stubborn as hell and won't budge an inch. He didn't help much by cocking up my prescription three times before eventually getting it right, but not before it had caused a row between me, the Pharmacist and Surgery until in the end one of the Pharmacists stepped in and offered to go and see my GP himself to tell him what he needed before he could dispense.

 

Yes i checked out the internet on purchasing online and i found a supplier in the US who markets the main drug i need (the other two aren't important and can cope without for short periods). I agree, it IS absurd! But that is one of the points i'm going to make in my reply back to my MP.

 

Though the surgery is small there are 4 or 5 regular GP's that run it so have thought about asking to see one of the others and begging for a little bit more leniency in what i see as quite punitive and unfair measures. After all.....being realistic, i don't know how much longer i'm going to be driving around Europe. At the moment i still enjoy it but i'm sensible enough to know there's going to come a time when physically it's probably not going to be much fun. I've battled with osteoarthritis for the past six years and that only gets worse each year.

 

I asked about a private prescription but he refused that! They've pretty much got me jumping through hoops and bloody hurdles!

 

 

I can understand your frustration that some people seem to be able to get prescriptions to cover longer stays abroad despite them apparently being against the rules but if you take your campaign too far we could end up with an equality of misery rather than an equality of opportunity.

 

Thanks David. Whilst i realise it may seem as though i'm expecting sympathy, i'm not. I posted this to garner more 'info' from others in similar positions (regular prescribed meds who exit UK for any length of time) to see what sort of responses came back, and i have to admit, it's pretty much as i expected. Individual GP's are obviously 'bending the rules' and ignoring the NHS Regulations Act. There is no consistency anywhere at all in this. Whilst some, like myself, are being refused point blank any more than a max of 3 month supply of 'meds', others are getting however long they want.

 

So.......to the 'residency' bit. This is a completely bonkers piece of legislation which makes no sense to me whatsoever. The Dept of Health state that if you are out of the UK longer than three months then you cease to be eligible for NHS treatment and will be removed from a GP's list. You are viewed as 'non-resident'. That you still have a property and pay damn taxes here doesn't seem to matter! Yes i recognise the main reason why it's been introduced. To put a stop to 'health tourism'. That's admirable......but it ain't working, re the Kings case as a prime example of that. And that family really do make my blood boil! There's plenty more 'at it' like them too.

 

I take on board your final comment and it is equality on opportunity i want. I'd like the same equal opportunity of others but that's not happening and cannot possibly be right? As i mentioned, a friend of mine has the complete opposite experience to me where his GP freely prescribes as much medication as he needs for whatever length of time with no fuss or bother.......but he lives 15 miles from me so i an entirely different area. And that's where it gets daft. If i moved to live in his area, i wouldn't be writing this now!

 

 

Cliffy - 2015-10-25 12:55 AM

 

This probably confirms your point, even if you don't live in Essex.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=nhs+prescription+rules&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CCsQFjAEahUKEwj95sWCqNzIAhXBXRoKHYynCYU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmidessexccg.nhs.uk%2Fyour-nhs%2Fmedicines-management%2Fprescribing-policy-statements%2Fdoc_download%2F356-eligibility-for-nhs-prescriptions-and-living-abroad-april-2015&usg=AFQjCNGu2x0ABS6CzR-SYF7sLv9iU93HFw&sig2=AK3EMplmU6bcvv_NtZThwg

 

Yes it's not only a postcode lottery where parents resort to 'conning' the local authorities so they can get their kids into a better school.......Government have now created a Health lottery where if you live in certain areas you get however much 'meds' you want, whilst others have the 3 month 'rule' waved in their face and end up jumping through bloody hoops to "prove" they aren't migrating to reside in other countries!

 

UK is becoming a Totalitarian state. *-)

[pepe63xnotuse]

BG..

Sorry, but It's starting to sound as if it's about being "envious" of what some others may/may not get as anything else...

 

Would you be happier if the NHS 2 month "rule" you mentioned was strictly enforced for everyone...? :-S

 

(..if you're going to be looking at what others in different area may be getting , then if it wasn't prescriptions, it'd be hospital waiting times... better social care provision ete etc, there'll always be something....)

 

Maybe focus more on the fact that you are lucky enough to be in position: and fit enough, to be off touring for 3 months at a time.. :-)

When renewing your prescription at 3 months,I'm assuming that you need to attend for a consultation?..if not, is there nobody who could collect it and just forward it on to a given point for?...

(..if a van needs a spare part from the UK, it seems that folk don't think twice about getting them sent on...)