Fiat Ducato Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I am trying to remove the rusted Stainless steel screws that hold the edge trim that goes all around the motorhome that houses the Herzim strip.most of them are so rusted where the old pvc herzim strip as weathered and shrunk, that the heads are unrecognizable, and been stainless steel been an hard material, they are impossible to get out. So far I have tried spraying them with WD40, and managed to get a few out with a small flat screwdriver, I bought so Easy out screw extractors, came with good feedback, you drill with one end them flip and screw the other end and remove the screw, they got hot and burned out the drill end. Tried normal small titanium drill bits to drill a pilot hole, again they burned out. Tried banging them with a screwdriver and hammer, tried using an elastic band over the head to get a better grip Nothing as worked, I did lose my temper on what bit of it and force the trim off, bending and damaging it beyond repair. Not a great idea as now sourcing a replacement is proving very difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Been there, I feel your pain. (Not with a Herzim strip, no idea what that is, but with many other projects that just did not go like they should have). Hope you get it sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I think the screws will be the hard self tapping type. Try removing the PVC around the heads so that they stand proud , then grip them with the tips of a mole wrench on as tight as possible , then twist them out. Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKen1 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Try using the finest angle grinder cutting disc you can get and cut a slot in them ,then use a normal spade screwdriver .I would soak them before hand with penetrating oil. Been there done that ..good luck Alternatively just grind the heads off to remove the strip then grind the rest of the screw flush with the bodywork, cover it with sealing gunk and reposition all the fixing hole on your new strip. Brian K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Could you not just grind the heads off and leave the stubs in the bodywork - redrill the strip to refit using screws in new locations? Another tip borrowed from the boating world is to heat the screwdriver until cherry red and then hold it into the screw to heat it up - helps break any bonds but you do of course need the screw head to be functional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Welcome to my 'day job', try removing 4000 screws from a 70y.o. Lockheed Electra L10! As above unlikely to be stainless, more like hardened. Depending on condition and type of head there are several methods to remove them. If there is enough head to fit a screwdriver bit then, wd might help, but a sharp tap(or two) with a hammer will probably do more good, make sure the 'slot' is as clean as possible, only use good quality bits, diamond coated ones will give extra grip, it often helps to (try to) tighten first, you cannot be 'limp wristed' about the job, it should feel like you are putting at least as much pressure into the screw as turning it. Drilling! sometimes works, but you need colbolt drills and a slow speed with Rocol or similar, a battery drill is usually better than a mains drill due to speeds needed. You can sometimes cut a slot with a thin cutting disc on a dremel. The last resorts are as above, get the trim off and with a good quality pair of mole grips undo the screw, or grind off the head then take of trim and undo screw with mole grips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will H Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Some good answers there Paul. By far the simplest way forward is to grind the heads flat then reposition the strip when assembling to avoid the old screws. As said the screws would not have been stainless. When re assembling items that are on the outside of any bodywork. Always dip the screw and shank into a hard grease before assembly. It will save someone following lots of aggravation. Rust on screws grows like the spikes on a hedgehog and penetrate outwards into whatever they are fixed into often making them impossible to remove. As suggested heating can break the sealing structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiat Ducato Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 Thank you all so much for some excellent comments and some great advice, took some good ideas on board and will try. I have tried most things, think my only option now is to use my small angle grinder and carefully grind the heads off to release the alloy trim and runner seal, then remove the rest of the screw once trim as been removed with mole grips, clamped on and twist. Before replacing the rubber seal and trim with stainless steel screws. Many thanks Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 When I was refurbishing our old Autosleeper Talisman (1988) I had to remove all the screws that held the large side sliding window fittings and tracks, 90% of them had rusted almost through, and hardly any had any head\slots that a screwdriver could grip into, I used grips to get some out, but most I just cut off flush. Luckily the replacement tracks were not pre- drilled, so I could re- position the replacements , stainless steel phillips very cheap to buy , WHY didn't Autosleeper use S/Steel in the first place ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiat Ducato Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 Rayjsj - 2015-10-26 10:37 PM When I was refurbishing our old Autosleeper Talisman (1988) I had to remove all the screws that held the large side sliding window fittings and tracks, 90% of them had rusted almost through, and hardly any had any head\slots that a screwdriver could grip into, I used grips to get some out, but most I just cut off flush. Luckily the replacement tracks were not pre- drilled, so I could re- position the replacements , stainless steel phillips very cheap to buy , WHY didn't Autosleeper use S/Steel in the first place ? Hi Rayjsj Yes indeed why oh why didn't they use stainless steel screws, even on the rooflights, just steel, roof rack steel, cycle rack steel. Mine is a 1997 AutoRoller and taking it apart and refurbishing it due to water damage, I must say I'm not very impressed with the build construction, very bad quality. Will surely not be buying a second hand Autoroller motorhome again, we had a Euromobil on a 1998 plate before this one, and was very impressed with the quality of that one. Double floors, very good strong roof. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will H Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Fiat Ducato - 2015-10-27 8:27 AM Yes indeed why oh why didn't they use stainless steel screws, even on the rooflights, just steel, roof rack steel, cycle rack steel. Paul It was a saving of money. 'Simples' as Brian would say. Maybe they are only small screws but in their thousands it amounts to money. Stainless is not a hard material unless impurities are added which 'again' increases the cost. The heads of stainless screws can be damaged easily, another reason for not using them. Hardened steel screws will take abuse when being assembled, should the company scrap bin have quantities of damaged stainless screws in each day that's another cost to cover. The screws could be greased first but there's a 'time' element. And finally I doubt the assemblers expect their components to be removed ... so unless the first owner of any Motorhome is willing to replace all the screws nothing will change. Sorry folks ... to quote the Tay Bridge disaster in 1879. It was a saving of money. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Will H - 2015-10-27 2:40 PM Fiat Ducato - 2015-10-27 8:27 AM Yes indeed why oh why didn't they use stainless steel screws, even on the rooflights, just steel, roof rack steel, cycle rack steel. Paul It was a saving of money. 'Simples' as Brian would say. Maybe they are only small screws but in their thousands it amounts to money. Stainless is not a hard material unless impurities are added which 'again' increases the cost. The heads of stainless screws can be damaged easily, another reason for not using them. Hardened steel screws will take abuse when being assembled, should the company scrap bin have quantities of damaged stainless screws in each day that's another cost to cover. The screws could be greased first but there's a 'time' element. And finally I doubt the assemblers expect their components to be removed ... so unless the first owner of any Motorhome is willing to replace all the screws nothing will change. Sorry folks ... to quote the Tay Bridge disaster in 1879. It was a saving of money. Will Just a observation ;-) ................. A few years ago I was asked to do a job for a boat, so knowing how damp boats get, I used stainless steel staples ..............unfortunately I had to order thousands of the dam things due to wholesalers being unwilling to provide the few hundred I needed *-)............ I have tried to use them up on other jobs.......but I have noticed in any situation where the staples might be under a vertical or pushing tension, they come out 8-) .............. So I can imagine given the stresses that a camper van bodywork will be under during its lifetime, maybe a bit of rusting insitu is a desirable trait? :-S ............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 colin - 2015-10-26 9:33 AM Welcome to my 'day job', try removing 4000 screws from a 70y.o. Lockheed Electra L10! As above unlikely to be stainless, more like hardened. Depending on condition and type of head there are several methods to remove them. If there is enough head to fit a screwdriver bit then, wd might help, but a sharp tap(or two) with a hammer will probably do more good, make sure the 'slot' is as clean as possible, only use good quality bits, diamond coated ones will give extra grip, it often helps to (try to) tighten first, you cannot be 'limp wristed' about the job, it should feel like you are putting at least as much pressure into the screw as turning it. Drilling! sometimes works, but you need colbolt drills and a slow speed with Rocol or similar, a battery drill is usually better than a mains drill due to speeds needed. You can sometimes cut a slot with a thin cutting disc on a dremel. The last resorts are as above, get the trim off and with a good quality pair of mole grips undo the screw, or grind off the head then take of trim and undo screw with mole grips. That Reference bugged me so I went Searching. Ok so Now I know. It was the same model that Amelia Earheart was flying I believe when she went missing?. As For the screws grinding a slot and applying heat to the screw head, via a heavy soldering iron after the application of a "Rust buster" is where I would go. Failing all else grind off the head and reposition the new screws as advised!. BTW most "stainless" screws have a lower Torsion resistance something to bear in mind when tightening the new screws and they are "softer" making the prone to assembly damage if not done carefully. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 PeteH - 2015-10-29 8:21 PM That Reference bugged me so I went Searching. Ok so Now I know. It was the same model that Amelia Earheart was flying I believe when she went missing?. Pete Yep, that's the type, had to dismantle at Wroughton, take Fuse/CSec to our Bedfordshire base for refurb, then it was a 24hr shift delivering and taking into ScM London(had to fit the 20ft wide aircraft throu a 12ft wide door), you can now see it where we hung it in MMW gallery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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