Help and advice needed.

[Rob-TinaGabbi]

Hi!!! First off, let me aplogise if someone elso has done a similar post but I have searched and found nothing. Im in my early 30's and last year I was really ill and should be dead. As you may have realised im not! yipee! Anyway, its given me and my family a whole new look on life and realise just how short life is. So......bye bye normal life..........we are off. The plane is to buy a second hand but not too old motorhome, I reckon about 30 foot. And to have it ready changed, altered or whatever to suit what we need by the middle of next year. Then it will be a few months in England to check everything and us is ok. Then its Europe for good! woohoo! Problem is it seems there is so so much to consider. So below im going to list just a tiny percentage of questions that are flying through our heads.........I would be so grateful of any help!! 1. Any idea on what age van I can go back to to make it as reasonable priced as possible yet still having features that are a must these days? 2. What features would experienced users recommend as a must have? This for me is probably the most important question. 3. Petrol, diesel or LPG? 4. Has anyone fitted out a camper themselves? 5. We are quite sociable, are there places to meet up for like minded people over europe? 6. We are going to take our 12 year old daughter Gabbi out of school for this new life. We will teach her ourselves. Has anyone had experience of this? 7. Is there any good web sites of stories of people who live full time from a camper? 8. How can you use the internet while travelling? I have tons and tons more questions but will leave it at that for now..... Thanks for reading! Rob, Tina and Gabbi

[mom]

Just to start the ball rolling on a couple of these....

1&2... the features that are a "must" are completely subjective.  I know some who feel a fixed bed is a must, others that require a shower and bathroom, and others that see these as a waste of space.  Will you typically stop in one site for long periods of time or will you always be on the move?  My needs are easy... a rollout bed, a communal porta potti, a cooker and a fridge.  The rest is optional.  But others will think very differently.

2. Turbodiesel.

6. This is becoming more common in North America, called home schooling.  I have no experience of it in this country, but I do know, from like minded friends in Toronto, that it requires a great deal of discipline.  When I questioned them on the obvious issues of children missing "the playground experience", they firmly believed it was not an issue so long as other avenues for friendships and social activities were explored... often with other home schooled kids.

8. This has been covered a bit in other threads on this forum, but options include internet cafes, wifi hotspots, especially in some North Eastern European countries, Vodaphone 3g/gprs PCMCIA cards, normal cell phones (via infrered or bluetooth).  I think you would struggle to find a perfect low-cost solution while remaining mobile.  This may be a problem with home schooling.

[tonyishuk]

If you scoure the Yahoo groups there are several Motorhome groups, covering partiming and full timing. One very active group is http://www.motorhome-list.org.uk/ which has useful info and connects with http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/motorhome-list/ All free to subscribe, but have to create a Yahoo account. If you cannot find info here, you will proabably find it there ;-) Rgds

[Brian Kirby]

Boring, I know, but first work out, well in advance, how you're going to pay for it all.  Motorhomes aren't cheap:  then you have to insure, tax and service them, and fit the odd spare part as they wear out.  In the end, they become unreliable and the whole lot has to be replaced.  More cost. 

You'll be lucky to beat 25mpg, so fuel will cost you a lot as well. 

You can't freecamp all across Europe, though in some parts you can, so you'll have to use some campsites or stopovers.  These also cost money. 

These costs are inescapable and not within your control: others, such as food, you may be able to minimise to some extent by frugal buying.  However, living costs are much the same as UK in most of Europe, so there'll still be a weekly bill.

How will you eat?  If you intend relying on the 'van cooker, you'll almost certainly need an oven and a reasonable sized fridge.  That's a consideration when choosing a 'van.  If you'll be eating out all the time, you'll just spend a large fortune.

Then, what are you actually going to do?  Sit in the sun all day?  You'll never keep it up, sooner or later boredom will set in.  So, if you're planning on visiting lots of places, whether theme parks or historic monuments, you'll need yet more money.

What equipment you'll need will depend on you, on where you go, and when.  Spain all year: you'll get used to the heat so aircon won't be such a priority, and you can always move to somewhere a bit cooler.  Northern Europe in winter: you'll need a fully winterised 'van, a larger than average heater and a bulk gas tank, or you'll risk hypothermia.

You need a plan.  What to see, how long to spend seeing it, and when to go.  Then you can begin researching 'vans and equipment.  How will you get to all these places?  You'll have difficulty driving a 30' van to many, so will you take cycles, a scooter, or tow a car?  Another factor when choosing the 'van.  Will it take the necessary extra load.

If I'm honest, and a bit blunt, I think you may be trying to run before you can walk.  The walking is the research and thinking you need to do before you even begin to consider what 'van to get and what to put in it.  If you do your homework, you'll answer most of your questions as you go along.

So, two recommendations to start you off.  Take a subscription to MMM, and buy a book called "Go Motorhoming Europe".  Go to www.go-motorhoming.co.uk for the book.  Then read, read, read and think, think, think.

You'll get there, but don't rush it!  It'll all work so much better if you take the time to work out the options and possibilities first.  Otherwise I fear you'll spend a load of money and end up disappointed, and possibly with a poorly educated daughter.  How about a boarding school while you and Tina go off?  At least that way her education won't suffer, and she can always join you for holidays so the bits of the mind that are broadened by travel will also get exercised!

Good luck.

[colin]

I always say if you are going to buy a motorhome rent one first to see if its for you, especialy so if you intead living in one. This will also give you an idea of what to look for in layout. I lived for a while in a touring caravan, fine for me but it's not for everyone

[Guest peter]

What a brilliant reply by Brian Kirby. He has obviously given a lot of thought to it and when you read it, it makes you think.

[mom]

I agree, Brian's post helps to surface the problems and issues that underpin this kind of adventure. 

Let us also remember, that if you have energy and imagination on your side, then many hardships can be overcome in the pursuit of your heart!  Finding the way between "go slowly and plan" and "life's too short to waste time with the small things" can be a daunting and dangerous path.  I fall in the Brian camp, planning, testing, making sound, knowledgable and balanced decisions.  My wife plays in another sandpit, believing that energy and good intentions will get us through all hardships.  And the bank manager ejudicates!
I guess what I am saying is that you should take note of everything that is said, but know that a great story comes from the heart and not the mind!

Don't be put off from your dream, but as the Royalists would say, "mind as you go!"

[Dave Newell]

What do you consider a reasonable price to pay for your 30' motorhome? I know of a 1998 Damon Intruder 34' american at £32,000 or for about half that you might get an older European motorhome of larger proportions. The Yank will do about 10MPG on diesel, the European version should be nearer 20MPG. If you could be a little more specific in some of the details (like price) it would make it easier to offer constructive comments. D.

[david lloyd]

Brian says: "Boring, I know, but first work out, well in advance, how you're going to pay for it all. Motorhomes aren't cheap: then you have to insure, tax and service them, and fit the odd spare part as they wear out. " You should also remember that, unless you register (tax and insure etc) your new motorhome in one of the european countriesd you intend to 'live' in, you will need to be back in the UK every year to test the vehicle. In fact, I believe you are only allowed to temporarily import a vehicle for six months before registering it with that country. Either way, there will be cost incurred in ferries etc. This all sounds a bit negative but I donm't think anyone on this site intends that - just make sure you plan everything, know what you are doing and try to get it right before you start. Under these conditions I, for one, would wish you and your family a long and happy future doing something many of us would dreaam to do 'some day'. Best regards, david

[Vixter]

Hello Rob and Tina, You have come to the right place for advise and Brian seems to have summed up virtually everything. So to move on - this time of year is probably the worst time to hire a motor home. Not many places open long dark nights and poor weather. So its an ideal time to see the down side of full timing, if you can handle that , then there is a good chance you will make it. Look to hire on the continent for about three weeks - you may even get a discount at this time and try and live in as you would for real. Keep a record of what you spend- you wil be surprised how much more you spend as you cannot take advantage of BOGOF's in supermarkets since the fridge space is small and virtually no freezer. You wil find that consequently you are shopping more frequently. Next issue how to get to the shops? upsticks and drive - walk - cycle (need bike) - taxi? These are all the little things that eat into the dream but dont let them put you off, try the hire first and then report back .We will be very interested in what you have discovered. Vixter & VoH

[Mel E]

As Brian says, you need a plan. Yes, you can convert a van yourself. But it's a lot to face up to if you've never even owned a motorhome. I'd find a friendly converter who will work with you on the job. And get John Wickersham's book 'The Motorhome Manual' which will help a lot. Dave is right that big US RVs are cheap for what you get, but they are also limiting in where you can go just because of their sheer size. Home teaching is now very popular in the UK and there are thousands doing it. A Google search should find some organisations that will help/support you. And, in my view, PROVIDED you carve out time for it EVERY DAY and do it properly, the schooling will probably be at least as good as you'd get in a 35+ class. You also need a financial plan. What is your expenditure likely to be? How will you cover it with income? Yes, you can get temp jobs abroad, especially in summer, but it helps if you speak the language. You need to include this as part of your research. So get a nice A4 ring binder and some dividers, put some blank papaer in and start, at the front, listing all the things you need to do and research. Then start filling it up. Have fun.

[Bill]

[QUOTE]colin - 2006-11-09 8:35 PM I always say if you are going to buy a motorhome rent one first to see if its for you [/QUOTE] I agree wholeheartedly with "try-before-you-buy", but the trouble with renting as a means to do so is that it shields you from many of the things you most need to know. If anything goes wrong with a rental 'van you just throw it back to the renter - and you never get to find out that good caravan mechanics are as rare as hens' teeth, extremely expensive, and have long waiting lists.

[Clive]

Lots of good advice above. Go for it, Several of us including me and had the experience you mention but the problem is that after a while the "new awakening" fades a bit and its easy to drift back to your previous perspective on life. I did a home conversion on a coach back in 1985. At that time the coach was 13 years old when I got her. Plenty of space, furniture out of MFI (solid pine, never chipboard) and fittings from Beaulieu Boat Jumble. We ran her for 8 years all over Europe including some of the worst roads we have ever seen in Portugal. We sold her to some youngsters because I was the insurance, no one else would provide a breakdown service for Europe I could afford for a 7.5 tonner. Before that I converted a Bedford CF van and a VW transporter. If you have the wide span of skills to do things like this yourself then Go for it. If not don,t. There is also the question of resale value, especially if starting with a new base vehicle as a non proprietory conversion will not command as much of a premium as a known brand on the second hand market. If you plan to keep it for many years then this is a small consideration. If you are knowledgable and only lack the stamina for DIY then most motorhomes do little mileage, for example our 9 year old Merc Scout based Autotrail Scout has done 35K. Just about run in. We are not unique (in this respect at least!) There are a miriad of bargains to be had if you are shrewd. Try before you buy. Rent one for a few weeks if you have never had a motorhome before - just to be sure. Make sure that whatever you get that all ocupants have a small place that is their own. Good luck, send us a post card. Clive

[thesaint]

I am sure everyone has provided you with "good sensible advice" however some times in life you just need to go with your instincts! Having just returned from travelling around Europe (West and East) for 12mths. My wife and I (33 & 40) had no previous experience of owning a motorhome. We both gave up well paid jobs and just went for it !!! We had a fantastic time with no problems whatsoever in a 27ft Compass Castaway with moped and 2 cycles kept safely in the rear garage. We have kept a diary http://journals.aol.co.uk/lynsaint3/TheSaintsdoEurope campsite critique and a budget covering all are costs. (we would be happy to share any of this information if useful?) :-D

[Mel B]

Another slant on this, before even going out and looking at motorhomes, write down what you do every day at home, such as get up, breakfast, shop, wash, wash up, do the washing, etc, etc. Then work out how these will relate once you're full-timing in a motorhome. Some will be simple, others not so. Then, rate them as to how important they are and what facilities you need to do them - eg if you like to cook extensie meals you'll probably want a good sized kitchen, oven, fridge etc. If you shower every day then you'll want a good sized bathroom area with a separate shower compartment otherwise you'll get fed up of having to mop it out all the time. It should give you a good idea on what is important to you - ie do you want a large kitchen area, lounge, fixed beds. ;-)

[Rob-TinaGabbi]

Well thanks for all the replies firstly!! It seems every time a question is ansewered 3 more pop into my head. To try and answer a few points that have come up...... The money thing! We are thinking of 20 - 25k to buy the thing and a further 5 - 10k to fit out to our spec (im a qualified joiner (aint done it for 10 years, but hey, you never forget!) and Tina is an interior designer so we will do as much of the work as we can ourselves. Thats why we are not looking to go away for at least 6 months. This will leave us with at least the same amount of money again as a reserve/emergency fund. We will also have a decent weekly income while away as I am a company director who doesn't really need to do anything to earn the wage. From experience will 700 per week be enough to live on and fuel etc? Im hoping so!! I can see the good points of renting a vehcle but also dont think this is a line we would go down. a, because its something we are deffinately going to do. Its our dream and goal. and b, if we rent I know it wont be in a van that we have designed ourself so it wont be our ideal van. The point about schooling..........I rellish the thought of being able to teach gabbi myself............everything about normal schooling today frustrates me. I know for a fact I can do a better job! We also dont want to plan the actual journey too much. That is 90% of the excitement for us that we will just be heading of. Somewhere!!! Research........and walking before running. This next six months will be our walking stages. Making sure we can get things as right as we can.. Today we have been driving round showrooms looking at various models to see what features we like. We have seen loads we like but not one yet that we would want to live in were everything is perfect for us. Maybe perfect is not possible? But I think it is. Anyway, thanks for all the input and please please keep it coming! I will now spend some time reading thesaint's blog! Thanks again

[mom]

[QUOTE]Mel B - 2006-11-11 4:25 PM Another slant on this, before even going out and looking at motorhomes, write down what you do every day at home, such as get up, breakfast, shop, wash, wash up, do the washing, etc, etc. Then work out how these will relate once you're full-timing in a motorhome. Some will be simple, others not so......  [/QUOTE]

This is a great approach.  My wife and I have done similar excercises.  I might just throw "inclement weather" into the mix as well.  When considering your day, imagine also that it is pouring rain or snowing or boiling hot outside, for days on end, relentlessly, and see how this might effect your living standard and the dynamics of movement.  Not meant as a means to put you off, rather to see it as another delightful challenge.

Also, when you start all this, which I guess is now, keep a comprensive journal (might also be a good excercise for Gabbi).  Make sure thoughts and feelings are prominent, additional to costs, experiences, places visitied etc.  In twenty years time, when you have been there and done all that, and lost the innocence of the time past, it will be a great family read.  A reminder of the excitement of the time. 

I am jealous!

[Kell]

Hi Rob Tina & Gabbi my motorhome is a home built project of mine. I consider that the cost can easily be 50% that of buying a factory built van but you obviously need to factor in the time it will take for the build. Another book of great value should you consider this route is a Haynes manual by John wickersham 'build your own motorcaravan' there is also a club and website for 'selfbuilders' called the SBMCC (self build motor caravanners club) and is well worth a look. Good luck. John

[Rob-TinaGabbi]

yeah...........we like the write things you do at home plan! Looks like we gonna need a bigger van!! :-D Also the jounrnal for gabbi has gone down well........keeping her too it will be another matter, but im gonna be her teacher so there.....ha ha!! We are off hunting for ideas this weekend around morohome dealers. Can anyone recommend any places in the yorkshire area. Wehave listed a few out of magazines but reccomendations are always good. Also does anyone know of any dealers who might occasioaly come across written off vans? Maybe stolen and vandalised etc?

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]Rob-Tina&Gabbi - 2006-11-17 5:34 PM yeah...........we like the write things you do at home plan! Looks like we gonna need a bigger van!! :-D Also the jounrnal for gabbi has gone down well........keeping her too it will be another matter, but im gonna be her teacher so there.....ha ha!! We are off hunting for ideas this weekend around morohome dealers. Can anyone recommend any places in the yorkshire area. Wehave listed a few out of magazines but reccomendations are always good. Also does anyone know of any dealers who might occasioaly come across written off vans? Maybe stolen and vandalised etc?[/QUOTE]

I suppose I'll get into trouble for this but, reading your post I wondered: were you thinking of teaching Gabbi English?  :-)

[Mel B]

Hi Don't forget to take a digital camera with you when looking at vans - you can easily take a quick picture to remind you of a good idea etc that you saw which you can include in your own van.

[Stew]

Have a look at www.magnummotorhomes co.uk it is a great place to buy all sorts of bits for your motorhome. Well worth a look, its based at Grimsby. Good luck :->

[Rob-TinaGabbi]

I take it Brian’s comment was tongue in cheek. But it does make a point. My English can be perfect, but the English I have needed to use through life does not need to be. We want to teach Gabbi what is useful for life not what schools teach her. She is not an academic person. So although she will be taught maths and English and basic science we will mostly concentrate on what she is good at and enjoys. I remember getting so frustrated at school learning logarithms and the such, thinking when will I ever use these unless I decide to be an astronaut. They didn't even teach us basic accounting procedures such as VAT and income tax etc. I was correct. I have still never used them or many other things. Madness. Anyway, we went to a motorhome place. It seems the biggest problem for us is that however big the vans are they do not seem to design them with 2 bedrooms. We will give the big bedroom which is normally at the back to Gabbi. But we would not want to have to pull out tables and make a bed every night for us. Does anyone know of any vans with 2 bedrooms? Or does anyone know if it’s possible to move the major stuff around if refitting a van such as bathroom, kitchen? I could do this if it was in a house but can the plumbing etc be moved in a motorhome? Has anyone had experience of this?

[dogmad]

I just wanted to say good luck to the 3 of you, I hope you find what you're looking/hoping for. I can't offer any advice, sorry, as we've only just got our 1st motorhome which has really stretched our finances but as you'd appreciate - life's too short. Best of luck with the home schooling too, I'm sure you're doing the right thing. Happy travelling.

[skottle]

Hi, Firstly good luck with your venture. We have an A class motorhome which whilst not having two seperate rooms has a fixed double bed at the rear and a full size pull down bed at the front. There is still space to sit while these are in use. We have just started home-schooling our youngest daughter, so not in a position to give any advice but could maybe bounce questions and share any info we have gained so far.