Tony M Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I'm thinking about placing an order for a new Globecar/ Possl in Germany for delivery in the new year. There are several coming on stream but all based on the Citroen Relay 2.2 150ps. I would have preferred the Fiat 2.3 148ps as I have always had Fiat and don't know anything about Citroen engines. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 No disrespect but why buy in Germany, unless the savings are really significant. Don't forget the electrics will not be UK style, the literature will most likely be in German and any warranty work will be harder to get done. I assume the model you are looking at is RHD or there will,be other issues to resolve before you can drive it here. Plus if you order from a dealer here you can get what you wish for. I know there are some dealers that leave a lot to be desired but for a long term purchase I would feel happier having some local backup. I do not know a lot about the various engine types but assume the Citroen engine is the same as the Peugeot one which seems to be fine but can run a bit rougher than the Fiat one. Plus of course no automatic version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Buying in Germany is probably cheaper and you get a LHD which is sensible if 90% of your driving is in Europe. I'm thinking (probably prematurely) also of a Globecar panel van conversion but want an automatic so Citroen is not an option. Which dealer is being used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony M Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 This will be my fourth import from Germany (previous ones Wingamm, Hymer and Adria) and as we travel extensively in Europe and only occasionally in UK I always prefer left hand drive. Yes, the savings really are significant especially at the moment with the exchange rate being so favourable. German dealers are extremely professional and vehicles are normally ordered in by them with top spec unlike UK dealers. Electrics not a problem as it is easy to source uk style plug sockets as straight replacements for continental ones. I tend to have a mix of both in my 'vans as we have appliances bought in Europe. For those thinking of buying abroad I would highly recommend it if you want to save a lots of cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony M Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 I'm looking at a couple of dealers at the moment. Bought the last one from Dumo but they don't seem to have what I'm looking for this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebeaches Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Although the Citroen 2.2ltr engine and chassis may be the 'default' unit, I'd be surprised if you couldn't specify a Possl / Globecar with the Fiat 2.3ltr set up - at an additional cost. And, as already mentioned in the thread, there's no automatic / semi-automatic gearbox option on the Citroen, if that is important to you? This is another reason I believe a Fiat would be available in any case - for those folk who do want an auto. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Fait Use their own engine. Citron and Peugeot use an engine jointly developed,with Ford and made in the UK in their Dagenham factory. We've had both. The Fait one is fine with its very destinctive sound. The Citron/Puegeot/Ford sounds like a tin of old nails when started from cold but the smooths out and runs very sweetly. Both seem to,be reliable and having had both I'd be hard put to pick which is best. The Fait one can offer an automated manual gearbox but whilst it more or less works it's not a full automatic. If you want a proper auto you would need to be looking at a Merc but then the body is not galvanised and the handeling is a bit vague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony M Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 I'm not looking for an automatic or semi automatic but having had Fiats for many years I am a bit loathe to change. A couple of dealers have a number of Globescout Plus models on order from Possl for delivery early in the new year but all are on Citroen. These are 'added value' editions of the Globescout and come with various extras (alloys etc) for no more cost. Think it will be worth sacrificing my loyalty to the Fiat badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Just for information, what is the saving? I'm considering it as lhd is a positive, servicing can be local, and the warranty is Europe wide, what's not to like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony M Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 A saving of over £10,000 at today's exchange rate is easily possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 ...I don't think there's enough difference between the two engines to be concerned about. FWIW, my experience with the 140bhp Ford/Citroen engine in it's slightly earlier Transit incarnation vs the 150bhp current X/290 Fiat is that the former is slightly more "gruff" and a bit noisier at lower revs/tickover, but also has slightly more willingness at lower revs (regardless of figures). This latter, of course, may be a result of different gearing. Not a lot to choose between fuel consumption, either. One thing you might want to check, however, is how easy it will be to get your 'van repaired or serviced in the local area. Decent Fiat 'van dealers are pretty thin on the ground (I luckily have one near me), good Citroen van dealers are rumoured to be as rare as hen's teeth. If you're comfortable with this, take the savings on offer by going for the Citroen base - much of the rest of the van is, as you know, common across the range of manufacturers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I'm sure I have read somewhere that some foreign dealers will change the headlights to RHD and adapt the speedo if the Lockwood overlay is provided by the customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony M Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 The last dealer I used in Germany (Dumo - Duelmen) will do the changeover prior to collection if you supply the appropriate Lockwood dial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 But, you must get the right variant of the Lockwood dial for the base vehicle specification. Get the German dealer to send you a photo of the dial in the van you are interested in to be certain, ideally with the ignition on so that the lights are visible. The dials are an excellent product, and are indistinguishable from the original in my experience, even when compared side by side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 The German-language 2016 Globecar catalogue and price-list can be found here http://www.globecar.de/download/20151115_Kat_Globecar_DE.pdf http://www.globecar.de/download/20151112_PL_Globecar_DE.pdf It will be seen that all models are offered with Citroen or Fiat powerplants, with (on a roughly like-for-like basis) the Fiat version being €1500 dearer. (I understand that all RHD Globecars marketed in the UK can only be obtained on a Fiat Ducato base.) Although (as has already been said) the 2.2litre motor used in Citroen Relays (and Peugeot Boxers) originates in a Ford factory, it’s difficult to know how close that powerplant is to the 2.2litre used in Ford Transits. There’s always been differences in the claimed Citroen/Ford power outputs, with the most powerful current Citroen 2.2litre motor having 150PS while the latest Transit equivalent has 155PS. It’s certainly the case that the 2.2litre motor now used in the Transit Mk 8 is significantly more civilised than its 2.2litre predecessor that was fitted to the Transit Mk 7, but I don’t know if the 2.2litre engine now being fitted to Relays and Peugeot Boxers includes the improvements Ford has clearly made. Nor do I know if the Relay’s transmission is the same as that used on the Ducato. I believe there’s just one Lockwood ‘universal’ replacement mph/kmh speedometer dial for the current manual-transmission Boxer/Ducato/Relay, as shown here http://www.lockwoodinternational.co.uk/dials/mph/fiat/fiat-ducato/ducato-part-no-c1179.html I have the kmh-only speedometer-face that was originally fitted to my 2015 LHD Ducato-based Rapido motorhome and all the symbols (and their positions) tally exactly with the Lockwood dial. The speedo-face and headlamps were swapped before I took delivery of the vehicle and I think a genuine Fiat mph/kmh dial-face may have been fitted rather than the Lockwood product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony M Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 Thanks for that Derek. The model I'm looking at is the Globecar Globescout PLUS / Possl 2win PLUS. There is a separate brochure for it and it's not shown in the main price list. As I mentioned in an earlier post it's an added value model and there are quite a few on dealers websites for delivery from January onwards. However, they are all on Citroen 'Heavy' 3.5 chassis with the 150 ps engine. I can only assume Possl have done a deal with Citroen to be able them to market this model at such a competitive price. As these are 2016 models, one would hope that they have the latest incarnation of this particular engine with the improvements you mention, but how do you know? Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron. Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Colin Leake - 2015-11-21 7:28 PM Fait Use their own engine. Citron and Peugeot use an engine jointly developed,with Ford and made in the UK in their Dagenham factory. Something else Iearned! I always thought that Citron/Peugeot used a version of the Fiat Ducato engine through their joint Sevel factory tie-up. Stranger still is the fact that a previous Autocruise Starburst with a Peugeot 3.0 engine that we owned juddered so badly in reverse that we had to get rid off it. I always thought that this was a Fiat/Peugeot problem and have never read any complaints of it associated with the Ford based engine! Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Hi Tony check details of the warranty for the Citroen. Very few Citroen dealers who can accommodate the larger vans & although it's the same engine as the Peugeot will Citroen accept non-dealer servicing or base vehicle warranty work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 ron. - 2015-11-22 10:06 PM Colin Leake - 2015-11-21 7:28 PM Fait Use their own engine. Citron and Peugeot use an engine jointly developed,with Ford and made in the UK in their Dagenham factory. Something else Iearned! I always thought that Citron/Peugeot used a version of the Fiat Ducato engine through their joint Sevel factory tie-up. Stranger still is the fact that a previous Autocruise Starburst with a Peugeot 3.0 engine that we owned juddered so badly in reverse that we had to get rid off it. I always thought that this was a Fiat/Peugeot problem and have never read any complaints of it associated with the Ford based engine! Ron Powerplants based on the 2.2litre Ford “Puma” diesel motor were used in Citroen Relays, Fiat Ducatos and Peugeot Boxers from (roughly) 2007 to 2010, and from 2010-onwards in Citroen Relays and Peugot Boxers. This Wikipedia entry summarises the situation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Ducato It will be seen that the 3.0litre motor introduced in 2007 for Relays, Ducatos and Boxers (and that continues to be fitted in those vehicles today) is an Iveco unit and has no link to Ford. A significant technical difference between the Puma-derived 2.2litre motor and the 2.3litre Iveco motor used in Ducatos is that the former has a timing-chain while the latter has a timing-belt. It’s also probable that the 2.2litre motor has always had a dual-mass flywheel, whereas (until fairly recently) the 2.3litre motor did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony M Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 Yes, you're right about that. It would probably mean a lengthy round trip for me to visit one of the larger Citroen dealers. Could be a bit of a bind if there were any warranty issues. Servicing could always be done when we are abroad I suppose. Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Obligatory servicing and under-warranty work relating to Globecar/Possl motorhomes was touched on here http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Anyone-looking-to-import-a-new-Globecar-Possl-van-RHD-/36406/ As far as I’m aware there’s still no UK agent for the Possl brand and - if UK Globecar agents remain unauthorised to carry out Possl warranty work - you might consider it wiser to opt for the Globecar Globescout Plus model rather than the Possl 2Win Plus clone. Worth checking the current position with Globecar in case things have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron. Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-11-23 12:11 PM ron. - 2015-11-22 10:06 PM Colin Leake - 2015-11-21 7:28 PM Fait Use their own engine. Citron and Peugeot use an engine jointly developed,with Ford and made in the UK in their Dagenham factory. Something else Iearned! I always thought that Citron/Peugeot used a version of the Fiat Ducato engine through their joint Sevel factory tie-up. Stranger still is the fact that a previous Autocruise Starburst with a Peugeot 3.0 engine that we owned juddered so badly in reverse that we had to get rid off it. I always thought that this was a Fiat/Peugeot problem and have never read any complaints of it associated with the Ford based engine! Ron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Ducato It will be seen that the 3.0litre motor introduced in 2007 for Relays, Ducatos and Boxers (and that continues to be fitted in those vehicles today) is an Iveco unit and has no link to Ford. Thanks for that Derek, seems I'm not going senile after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 ron. - 2015-11-22 10:06 PM Colin Leake - 2015-11-21 7:28 PM Fait Use their own engine. Citron and Peugeot use an engine jointly developed,with Ford and made in the UK in their Dagenham factory. Something else Iearned! I always thought that Citron/Peugeot used a version of the Fiat Ducato engine through their joint Sevel factory tie-up. Stranger still is the fact that a previous Autocruise Starburst with a Peugeot 3.0 engine that we owned juddered so badly in reverse that we had to get rid off it. I always thought that this was a Fiat/Peugeot problem and have never read any complaints of it associated with the Ford based engine! The 3.00 engine is indeed a Fiat engine it's the 2.2 that is not the same as the Fiat 2.3. It's worth noting that the Fiat engine is supposed to be serviced annually as opposed to the two years or 20,000 miles for the Peugeot/Citron/Ford engine. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I am always interested in achieving savings if at all possible. However I am still a bit concerned that by buying such a van you could land into problems down the line. Warranty work has been mentioned as has servicing of Citroen base units. My other concern would be re sale value as it will have to be sold as an 'import'. I doubt anyone is going to pay a UK resale price for something bought, dare I say, at a knockdown price. Of course the OP may plan on trading it in with the dealer he bought it from in a few years time, but then again it will have to be reverted to the original state. Of course if he/she plans to keep it until either he/.she or it bites the dust then no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Colin Leake - 2015-11-23 7:17 PM ron. - 2015-11-22 10:06 PM Colin Leake - 2015-11-21 7:28 PM Fait Use their own engine. Citron and Peugeot use an engine jointly developed,with Ford and made in the UK in their Dagenham factory. Something else Iearned! I always thought that Citron/Peugeot used a version of the Fiat Ducato engine through their joint Sevel factory tie-up. Stranger still is the fact that a previous Autocruise Starburst with a Peugeot 3.0 engine that we owned juddered so badly in reverse that we had to get rid off it. I always thought that this was a Fiat/Peugeot problem and have never read any complaints of it associated with the Ford based engine! The 3.00 engine is indeed a Fiat engine it's the 2.2 that is not the same as the Fiat 2.3. It's worth noting that the Fiat engine is supposed to be serviced annually as opposed to the two years or 20,000 miles for the Peugeot/Citron/Ford engine. Ron Not so sure about that. My Fiat handbook states servicing every 30000 miles or 24 months, whichever comes first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.