EJB Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Quote:-"European governments understand that by allowing Motorhome to park they are encouraging....." In reality only 3 or 4 countries, out of about 50, have special Motorhome parking facilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 ] . Ah, but we are not talking about parking are we. This is about 'free loading' motorhomes parking outside peoples houses, putting out their chairs, tables, awnings etc. Causing a real nuisance for locals and visitors alike. Still as long as it is free and you can keep your wallet firmly zipped all is ok. Hopefully any Aire would NOT be outside anyone's front windows. AND it is not about cost (for most anyway, as in many cases their motorhome cost them a small fortune !) It's about freedom to travel and stop as required without having to book up months in advance, ask CC members (of which I am one) a mad rush to book up sites months and months in advance. NOT exactly 'Freedom to roam' is it Henry . Well no it is not and I agree with you about booking up sites months in advance but personally have never done this. I have always got in to C.C. sites, even York, with a bit of flexibility and phoning the site direct to enquire about cancellations or no shows. However this is about a UK system of aires which it neither wants or needs. I use aires and sites in countries where they are available but in plenty of places they are not so use sites. I assume people like Tracker and Bulletguy never go to these countries so miss out or perhaps they sneak around trying to find spots were they can dodge the local cops. It is all about money though as I have never seen another compelling reason for layby parking or using the poor aires and there are a lot of these. If we had system of aires that charged a fair price, say £10 a night, then they would still not get used because of the price. If it really was just about a freedom to roam price would not matter. As I have mention before only this year there were two vans parked outside the Canterbury aire early September, although there was space, and it can only be to avoid paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 malc d - 2015-11-24 11:26 AM Rayjsj - 2015-11-24 11:07 AM Agree with your sentiment Brock, but surely the Business case has ALREADY been proven, hence all the Aires and Stellplatz over the Channel. I have signed the Petition. The same ' business case proven on the continent ' could equally apply to municipal campsites - so why not COMPEL all councils to provide those as well ? ;-) Afraid not Malc. More and more municipal sites are being sold to private owners or closing as for business provide by aires etc. I have serious doubt how much they bring to local business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Ray, if there is a business case, then all l it needs is someone to sit down and write the blooming thing. 3,000+ signatories the equivalent of the first 6,000 words of a business case. Councils will jump at the chance of a low cost, high profit investment which benefits the local community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 rupert123 - 2015-11-24 2:00 PM I assume people like Tracker and Bulletguy never go to these countries so miss out or perhaps they sneak around trying to find spots were they can dodge the local cops. Henry you are bang out of order by turning a discussion into an argument and posting a point of view for which you absolutely no evidence other than your own unpleasantly biased perceptions. Perhaps an apology from you would be in order, but somehow I doubt that will occur? Maybe Duncan would care to comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Down here in South Wales we have a major problem with Travellers passing through from Ireland they park up in any space they want then when they leave ,the local council have to clean up their mess the last lot at Tredegar park Newport cost us taxpayers £6000 for a 5 day stay So I understand why councils down here will not support the principle of Aires Especially as there are having their Budgets cut . . If you are so intent on getting Aires in the UK . GET together and Buy some land and start an Aire see if you can cover your costs. Make your case Even if you get a large number of names on the Petition. It may not go anywhere if the Petiton committee decide it does not stand a chance or there are better petitons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 It's ludicrous to think that cash strapped Councils whose capital budgets are being slashed and where staff are being laid off that these very same Councils are expected to fund Aires and pay for the the staff to patrol them. It's a daft idea and incredibly naive in the current financial climate. The best you can hope for is for Councils to behave more sympathetically in a planning context to those individuals wishing to establish private Aires. However, as has already been mentioned, Aires require supervision so are hardly likely to be money making enterprises especially as many motorhomers want to pursue their hobby on the cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 rupert123 - 2015-11-24 10:15 AM Ah, but we are not talking about parking are we. This is about 'free loading' motorhomes parking outside peoples houses, putting out their chairs, tables, awnings etc. Causing a real nuisance for locals and visitors alike. Still as long as it is free and you can keep your wallet firmly zipped all is ok. No it's not and if that's what you believe then not only have you obviously never used any Aires but i'm wasting my time explaining the manner in which they function to you. rupert123 - 2015-11-24 2:00 PM I use aires and sites in countries where they are available but in plenty of places they are not so use sites. From your previous statement i find it difficult to believe you've ever been on any. I assume people like Tracker and Bulletguy never go to these countries so miss out or perhaps they sneak around trying to find spots were they can dodge the local cops. Assumption is pretty dangerous mindless twaddle indulged by curtain twitchers. Admittedly i spend little time in France and 99% of my touring is in the East so use Stellplatz throughout Germany. There are a variety of books, maps and guides detailing the locations but i use the internet for planning. You might care to read this;To find a place to stay overnight in Germany with your RV (or "Wohnmobil", short "WoMo", in good German) is very easy, even if you don't want to pay for the site. First of all, in Germany it is legal to park overnight on any suitable parking lot (but beware of weight restictions - many allow only for vehicles up to 2.8 tons), as long as you don't stay more than one night in one place, and don't set up real camp with tables and chairs outside. Good places to search out for one night are parking lots of sport facilities or public swimming pools (often at the edge of a town and quiet), or large parking lots of tourist attractions which close overnight. Many towns, more so smallish ones and also more so in the eastern part of Germany, want to attract more visitors and offer free "Stellplätze" inside their town, many times in a quiet and scenic location, mostly within walking distance to shops and restaurants, or even major attractions. These are almost always sign-posted. In larger cities you are more likely to have to pay a nominal fee, but hardly ever over €10-15 per night (for which you might find decent facilities like hot showers, WiFi, etc.) http://www.dare2go.com/way-home/Germany-map.shtml It is all about money though as I have never seen another compelling reason for layby parking.... If it's "all about money".......why are you using them? I find it grossly hypocritical to come on here telling people they are "too mean to use campsites" and should "unzip their wallets" when you yourself now claim to use Aires. *-) .....or using the poor aires and there are a lot of these. It seems you aren't very good in sourcing Aires.........if as you claim, "use Aires in countries where available". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 ham - 2015-11-24 3:43 PM Even if you get a large number of names on the Petition. It may not go anywhere if the Petiton committee decide it does not stand a chance or there are better petitons A petition requesting councils to provide aires is more likely to be considered than this one which demands them. The tone of this one, trying to compel councils to provide aires is hardly likely to get a hearing. ( My guess is it will go straight in the bin ). :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertandjean Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 rupert123 - 2015-11-23 2:29 PM Who the hell cares, we have a way of doing things and most euro countries do to. I never hear this stuff about say Switzerland, Austria, Croatia etc where aires are non existent. The UK has a massive range of campsites from cl's up to very expensive private sites. The real problem is not places to stay but people who are to hard up or to mean to use them, I doubt many motor home users are that hard up so just unzip your wallets. Henri, why do you persist in taking such an anti aire stance on here and continue with this idea that all Aires users do so just to save money? As you well know we are great supporters and user of French Aires, but do so not to save money but enjoy not having to pre book before hand to see if any space, as with most UK sites or CLs, or because are in or near where we want to be not the middle of no where. Agree there are poor Aires, as there are poor sites and CLs, but we in the main use charged Aires often 10/15 €night which are of good standard. So please no more of this Aires users are all tight wads. Regarding difference between Uk and other countries then not just France but many others have Aires. We have stayed on Aires in Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg, Italy, Sweden, Spain, Portugal and yes Swizerland amongst others. But Henri know you are a decent chap so not wanting to start an argument just asking that you do not categorise all Aires users as being mean. Regarding UK then have joined Britstops scheme and find this nearest to Aires for UK as to cost of a meal or a drink (or two!) Can stay overnight with no pre-booking etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 robertandjean - 2015-11-24 8:08 PM Henri, why do you persist in taking such an anti aire stance on here and continue with this idea that all Aires users do so just to save money? Given that he pompously declared using Aires is "all about money", "freeloading motorhomers" and "people should unzip their wallets".....only to then admit in a follow up post to using Aires himself, not only negates his crass comments but pretty much makes him a hypocrite in the first degree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Bulletguy - 2015-11-24 9:32 PM robertandjean - 2015-11-24 8:08 PM Henri, why do you persist in taking such an anti aire stance on here and continue with this idea that all Aires users do so just to save money? Given that he pompously declared using Aires is "all about money", "freeloading motorhomers" and "people should unzip their wallets".....only to then admit in a follow up post to using Aires himself, not only negates his crass comments but pretty much makes him a hypocrite in the first degree! Well not really because I use them to save money, what is wrong with that exactly. Why do people have such a problem admitting this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Tracker - 2015-11-24 3:39 PM rupert123 - 2015-11-24 2:00 PM I assume people like Tracker and Bulletguy never go to these countries so miss out or perhaps they sneak around trying to find spots were they can dodge the local cops. Henry you are bang out of order by turning a discussion into an argument and posting a point of view for which you absolutely no evidence other than your own unpleasantly biased perceptions. Perhaps an apology from you would be in order, but somehow I doubt that will occur? Maybe Duncan would care to comment? You are correct Rich bit strong. However it is, sort off, a reasonable point, what do you do in countries where there are no aires and layby camping is frowned on, or do you just avoid them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 rupert123 - 2015-11-24 10:08 PM Bulletguy - 2015-11-24 9:32 PM robertandjean - 2015-11-24 8:08 PM Henri, why do you persist in taking such an anti aire stance on here and continue with this idea that all Aires users do so just to save money? Given that he pompously declared using Aires is "all about money", "freeloading motorhomers" and "people should unzip their wallets".....only to then admit in a follow up post to using Aires himself, not only negates his crass comments but pretty much makes him a hypocrite in the first degree! Well not really because I use them to save money, what is wrong with that exactly. Why do people have such a problem admitting this. Maybe you should practice what you preach a bit more and "unzip your wallet" instead of telling other people to unzip theirs!! *-) It's all well and good pontificating on moral standards but you lost all credibility the minute you admitted to using Aires yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 rupert123 - 2015-11-24 10:14 PM You are correct Rich bit strong. However it is, sort off, a reasonable point, what do you do in countries where there are no aires and layby camping is frowned on, or do you just avoid them. I can't speak for what you do or use as your basis for judging others about whom you know nothing, but please do not accuse me of overnighting in laybys as I do not, never have and never will. I am far more imaginative and peace and quiet loving about where I overnight off site to ever use a layby and once more I still await your getting down from your high horse and apologising unconditionally. It is not relevent to me so I have no idea which countries ban or frown upon layby overnighting but as you seem to be the expert on that topic maybe you could enlighten our collective audience from your own experience? We have yet to visit a country without Aires or legal off site overnighting but as and when we do we will comply with the local laws if for no other reasons that we go on holiday to relax and not to play hide and seek with the authorities with whom it would be hard enough to communicate when we are in the right let alone when we are in the wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 This shouldn't be an argument between individuals but a debate between aspiration and common sense. Today the Chancellor will announce a considerable reduction in funds to local government with consequential staff losses and cuts in capital spending. Can anyone really believe that local government will magic up funds for Aires at a time when other priorities are being slashed? This request for local government to establish Aires defies common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Mike88 - 2015-11-25 8:36 AM This shouldn't be an argument between individuals but a debate between aspiration and common sense. This request for local government to establish Aires defies common sense. Most sensible posting to date!! Let's just accept that there whilst there is no harm in asking, asking, not demanding, it just ain't gonna happen anytime soon! In my view the best we can hope for might be a relaxing in the no overnight parking or sleeping in vehicules in exchange for a parking charge in a few more suitable car parks, and even that is a very tall order given the mayhem that the abuse of the travelling dross causes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Mike88 - 2015-11-25 8:36 AM This shouldn't be an argument between individuals but a debate between aspiration and common sense. This request for local government to establish Aires defies common sense. Agree There are several places around where we live (and I guess in Devon) overlooking the Solent. I would not want Aires in any of them, maybe a few more camp sites, would be good.UK does not have the land , as they have in France/Germany, we are a very small island, and already over crowded in many places Use sites or CL/Cs if you must . Why should any council cater to a few who spend a fortune on a Mh, but begrudge paying for a place to park it? Do you pay to park your cars ? PJay Awaiting sparks to fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Tracker - 2015-11-24 10:37 PM rupert123 - 2015-11-24 10:14 PM You are correct Rich bit strong. However it is, sort off, a reasonable point, what do you do in countries where there are no aires and layby camping is frowned on, or do you just avoid them. I can't speak for what you do or use as your basis for judging others about whom you know nothing, but please do not accuse me of overnighting in laybys as I do not, never have and never will. I am far more imaginative and peace and quiet loving about where I overnight off site to ever use a layby and once more I still await your getting down from your high horse and apologising unconditionally. It is not relevent to me so I have no idea which countries ban or frown upon layby overnighting but as you seem to be the expert on that topic maybe you could enlighten our collective audience from your own experience? We have yet to visit a country without Aires or legal off site overnighting but as and when we do we will comply with the local laws if for no other reasons that we go on holiday to relax and not to play hide and seek with the authorities with whom it would be hard enough to communicate when we are in the right let alone when we are in the wrong. Ah, no answer then, thought not. As for layby parking just a general term but a whole lot more accurate than the ludicrous 'wild camping' one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Perhaps all the organisations that are authorised to grant cl/cs status, and I understand that these are more than just the clubs we all know and love, should be asked to get together to allow anyone to use the facility, including visitors from overseas, not just members of a specific organisation? Whilst retaining the 5 unit site limit, and subject to the site owner agreeing, this would free up a lot more less formal overnight capability whilst also allowing the site owners to perhaps derive more income from their not inconsiderable at times investment which might in turn encourage more cl/cs sites to open or reopen as the usual reason for closure seems to be lack of income relative to the costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Perhaps the 2 clubs could allow temporary membership to overseas visitors ? Though i don 't see many non UK plated vehicles around, maybe at HOT tourist spots ? Though come to think of it, Portsmouth has a lot of history !! PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Like this? http://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/aboutus/overseas-visitors/ http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/membership/benefits/join-from-overseas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Tracker - 2015-11-25 10:32 AM Perhaps all the organisations that are authorised to grant cl/cs status, and I understand that these are more than just the clubs we all know and love, should be asked to get together to allow anyone to use the facility, including visitors from overseas, not just members of a specific organisation? Whilst retaining the 5 unit site limit, and subject to the site owner agreeing, this would free up a lot more less formal overnight capability whilst also allowing the site owners to perhaps derive more income from their not inconsiderable at times investment which might in turn encourage more cl/cs sites to open or reopen as the usual reason for closure seems to be lack of income relative to the costs. Is there anything stopping "overseas" MHers from using the likes of CL & CSs (or the likes of Britstops etc) already ?... Why wouldn't/couldn't they just factor in the cost of joining which ever organisation oversees them,.in a similar way that UK MHers going abroad, factor in the costs for the likes of tolls, toll-passes, French Passion and Aires guides etc etc ?....:-S But this thread isn't about a lack of all-out capacity is it? .. primarily it's about some ;and not that many, judging by the low numbers that these types of "petitions" reach, wanting (and expecting!) MH overnighting spaces to be created in relatively *prime locations..and at minimal cost to them... (* the likes of the Mhers highlighted over in the Scarborough-Prom-overnighting thread are hardly going to want to overnight in some spaces created in the corner of some P&R, two mile out, on the bypass). :-S Sorry Derek, I crossed your post :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-11-25 11:28 AM Like this? http://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/aboutus/overseas-visitors/ http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/membership/benefits/join-from-overseas No Derek, not at all like that! More like this, http://www.britstops.com/ Access to privately owned cl/cs sites should be just like buying a book of Aires or Stellplatz or France Passion or Britstops, and not involve faffing about prebooking with two clubs, form filling for both, paying joining fees and subscriptions and then having to book each site either as you go or in advance. Just as we buy a book, visit France and other countries and stop where it is pleasant or convenient or where there is space - no pre booking, no set route, just the total freedom to go where the whim dictates. Isn't that the reason motorhomes were created? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Tracker - 2015-11-25 12:03 PM Isn't that the reason motorhomes were created? No. They were created for people who are too old for camping, and don't want to tow a caravan or stay in hotels. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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