UK.Gov Parliament Petition for Aires

[747]

Dave Gomersall - 2015-11-28 2:18 PM

 

When people are on about 'travellers' spoiling it for everyone, do they mean them people who empty their black waste etc in AONB such as Bamburgh Castle leading to the area being made unsuitable for motorhomes?

 

Or do they mean people who congregate in one area and block the pavements etc such as in Scarborough?

 

Or do they mean people who avoid paying their fair share of taxes such as many self-employed people and large companies?

 

Or do they mean people who live full time in motorhomes and not buy them to decorate their drives or block off their streets.

 

Perhaps we shouldn't throw too many stones!

 

 

Your first paragraph shows you to be narrow minded and bigoted by with your blanket accusations.

 

Your second paragraph is puzzling because I have read many posts on Scarborough and nowhere have blocked pavements been mentioned.

 

Paragraph three is a mindless rant for some reason. I actually paid what was due (Corporation Tax).

 

If the last paragraph reflects that you are a fulltimer then it shows that you seem to be some sort of twisted snob. I may be wrong of course and you were evicted from your property. If so, I apologise.

 

I hope to successfully avoid you and your ilk in the coming years. 8-)

[Dave Gomersall]

Nice rant 747. Last time I heard one as pointless was at a Tribunal at St. Nicholas' Hospital in Newcastle. Sadly you failed to answer the point that I was raising, 'Who are these travellers that cause all these problems for us nice tax paying motorhomers.

Enjoy your travels

[747]

Dave Gomersall - 2015-11-29 10:01 AM

 

Nice rant 747. Last time I heard one as pointless was at a Tribunal at St. Nicholas' Hospital in Newcastle. Sadly you failed to answer the point that I was raising, 'Who are these travellers that cause all these problems for us nice tax paying motorhomers.

Enjoy your travels

 

Sorry to hear that you were a patient there.

 

Were you sectioned?

[Dave Gomersall]

If I had have been no doubt I would have been in the next bed to you.

The only conclusion that I can draw from your original rant is that you are one of the offenders that give motor home owners a bad name.

 

[Brock]

Wish I hadn't steered this thread towards 'travellers'. The point I was hoping would come out was about tackling the issues that stop Local Authorities and the private sector embracing the concept of Aires.

 

Unless we address the concerns of the Local Authorities and private sector by showing how they can overcome these problems, they will just sit and trot out the usual excuses.

 

Travellers may not be an issue, so what other reasons do the Local Authorities and private sector have for not going down the Aires route and how can these be overcome.

 

[Dave Gomersall]

At last normality returns. (thanks Brock)

I think PJays post indicates that many Local Authorities do have spare hard standing land that they can bring into use whenever it suits them. To go back to one of my earlier posts on this thread, if as Tracker said to get the Cubs to lower their prices is wishful thinking, perhaps local lobbying of councillors using both the economic argument and that if the land was already being used by fee paying motorhomers then perhaps the fly-by-nights might not abuse it.

[747]

Dave Gomersall - 2015-11-29 12:40 PM

 

If I had have been no doubt I would have been in the next bed to you.

The only conclusion that I can draw from your original rant is that you are one of the offenders that give motor home owners a bad name.

 

The rumour is true then. :-|

 

The inmates have taken over the asylum. :D

 

By the way, have you given a thought to the fact you have accused me of dumping black waste and how I might feel about such an unjustified accusation on an open forum for the whole World to see?

 

No, I thought not. *-)

[Dave Gomersall]

Some people can give but not take 747.

All I say us motorhomers shouldn't throw stones until we get our own house in order

[Derek Uzzell]

Bulletguy - 2015-11-28 6:19 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2015-11-28 9:58 AM

 

There seems to be a general belief amongst UK motorcaravanners that ‘aires’ in Continental Europe remain unaffected by ‘travellers’ - this is not the case and never has been.

 

You'd think so wouldn't you yet in my time of touring i’ve yet to see ONE traveller family on an Aire....

 

During my 17 years of motorcaravanning in France I’ve personally encountered 4 instances where ‘travellers’ had occupied municipally-owned areas assigned for motorhome parking.

 

1: Near Archachon where, after the police had arrived, the travellers rapidly dispersed (people, vans, caravans) into the surrounding woods.

 

2: In the Dordogne, where we arrived in the afternoon at an aire that travellers had left that morning - local authority personnel were still clearing up the mess when we got there.

 

3 and 4: At the aire at Bouère in Mayenne

 

http://gicepe08.hebfree.org/1Nous-Visitons/Pays-de-la-Loire/53-Bouere.html

 

This aire - as will be evident from the sign in a photo on the above link - is for use by motorhomes only, but the sign had not dissuaded the travellers from setting up camp at Bouère and connecting into the water-supply of the adjacent park. It’s possible (though doubtful) that the travellers had done all of this with the consent of the local mayor (the mairie is directly opposite the aire) but my wife was unable to confirm if that was the case as the mairie was shut on both occasions when she went to inquire.

 

I live near Ross-on-Wye and Monmouth and both towns have had traveller visitations this year. At Ross in August a small number of traveller vehicles parked on Red Meadow car-park (listed on some websites as a potential motorhome ‘stopover’) and apparently paid the appropriate parking fees.

 

http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/13638953.Travellers_have_left_Ross_on_Wye_car_park/

 

The situation at Monmouth in August was more contentious:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-33096136

 

I don’t believe there is a need for ‘aires de services’ in the UK. There may be a “want” by some motorcaravanners (eg. full-timers and all-year-rounders) but that’s not the same as a general “need”. The idea that such UK aires would be cost-effective is nebulous - it’s a lot easier to pick out French aires de services that clearly do not pay their way than it is to identify those that possibly make a profit for the community where they are located.

 

Lobbying UK authorities to provide more authorised motorhome overnight parking has some chance of success (using the Welsh initiative as a precedent) but it will be hard going. Lobbying for parking plus fresh-water replenishment and waste-emptying facilities is most unlikely to work.

 

 

[Bulletguy]

Derek Uzzell - 2015-11-30 9:15 AM

 

Bulletguy - 2015-11-28 6:19 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2015-11-28 9:58 AM

 

There seems to be a general belief amongst UK motorcaravanners that ‘aires’ in Continental Europe remain unaffected by ‘travellers’ - this is not the case and never has been.

 

You'd think so wouldn't you yet in my time of touring i’ve yet to see ONE traveller family on an Aire....

 

During my 17 years of motorcaravanning in France I’ve personally encountered 4 instances where ‘travellers’ had occupied municipally-owned areas assigned for motorhome parking.

 

That's not so bad then really is it?

 

 

I live near Ross-on-Wye and Monmouth and both towns have had traveller visitations this year. At Ross in August a small number of traveller vehicles parked on Red Meadow car-park (listed on some websites as a potential motorhome ‘stopover’) and apparently paid the appropriate parking fees.

 

This is my local traveller site; http://oi65.tinypic.com/k4fqlt.jpg Quite pleasant surroundings apart from the quarry at the back which they wouldn't see anyway and must admit, is the first time i've seen it as it's completely hidden from the road. I've no idea what fees they pay or on site facilities they have.

 

 

I don’t believe there is a need for ‘aires de services’ in the UK. There may be a “want” by some motorcaravanners (eg. full-timers and all-year-rounders) but that’s not the same as a general “need”. The idea that such UK aires would be cost-effective is nebulous - it’s a lot easier to pick out French aires de services that clearly do not pay their way than it is to identify those that possibly make a profit for the community where they are located.

 

Lobbying UK authorities to provide more authorised motorhome overnight parking has some chance of success (using the Welsh initiative as a precedent) but it will be hard going. Lobbying for parking plus fresh-water replenishment and waste-emptying facilities is most unlikely to work.

 

We are sadly lacking is the way i see it. Be it local authorities or central government there is a morbid dread and aversion of people getting 'something for nothing'. Some folk themselves even feel obliged to pay as though it's a compulsory requirement. The time i was in Austria and 'told off' by a helpful local for trying to put money in a parking meter (you got 1hr free) came as something of a culture shock.....but this was my first time there so i had to familiarise myself with their welcoming approach to the motoring shopper in such a tiny little town.

 

I once decided to fill my fresh water tank at the local supermarket i use. I'd filled up with diesel so felt it would be convenient. However just minutes later one of the cashiers came out and told me i couldn't use it because "our water is metered and the Manager doesn't allow it". I just thought what a wonderful welcoming attitude we have for any foreign motorhome people touring UK for the first time.

[Derek Uzzell]

The “Compel councils to provide Aires” petition has now clocked up 3269 signatures. That’s a sizeable number and, if even 5% of the people who have signed got off their backsides, got together, produced between them a well-informed credible business-plan that might encourage the relevant authorites to positively discriminate in favour of motorcaravan parking in the UK, something useful might well occur. The realistic likelihood of that happening is nil.

[Bulletguy]

Derek Uzzell - 2015-11-30 6:54 PM

 

The “Compel councils to provide Aires” petition has now clocked up 3269 signatures. That’s a sizeable number and, if even 5% of the people who have signed got off their backsides, got together, produced between them a well-informed credible business-plan that might encourage the relevant authorites to positively discriminate in favour of motorcaravan parking in the UK, something useful might well occur. The realistic likelihood of that happening is nil.

 

I would have thought the "credible business plan" has long been staring local authorities in the face and needs no encouragement from joe public. It's called 'accessibility' by bringing motorists (and motorhomes) into town centres rather than hounding them out. I've said it before on here so am repeating but my local town is a mere shadow of it's former self now due to excessive car park charges (no access to motorhomes) and the only businesses left are charity shops, 99p stores and coffee shops. Even the outdoor market traders are disappearing due poor trade.

 

Meantime the Council see the 'solution' as increasing parking charges and rent from the few businesses left.

[Muswell]

So how come growth in the UK was seven times that in France last year in spite of the lack of aires?

[Mike88]

Muswell - 2015-11-30 11:23 PM

 

So how come growth in the UK was seven times that in France last year in spite of the lack of aires?

 

Haven't you realised that half a dozen motorhomes turning up mainly in the summer months is the answer to all economic woes? I agree with the point about excessive car parking charges driving people away from town centres but to suggest motorhomers, the majority of which bring their food with them, can reverse decline is absurd.

 

At a time when Councils are struggling to retain key staff especially in areas such as social care and are slashing capital budgets it is ludicrous to think that relatively prosperous motorhomers will be provided with facilities so that they can stay in areas on the cheap.

[Brock]

City centres and town centres change with time. In my village, there are hardly any shops left but go to the local retail park which houses four high street brands and the place is buzzing. And I can park my motorhome for free. Farm shops prosper, the local Garden Centres host a number of small businesses whilst the internet shows no sign of tailing off as a place to do business.

 

I can remember the days when my home town was dominated by the Co-operative Wholesale Group who had numerous large and small shops in town. So big firms dominating at the expense of small businesses are nothing new.

 

The business case for Aires is like the Emperor's New Clothes. If you are a believer, it exists. Trouble is, it cannot exist in the real world until somebody writes it down.That is the way the commercial world operates.

 

I doff my hat to Bulletguy for raising the subject and sticking to it. The petition has been raised on numerous motorhome forums although this is the first time I've seen the petition have a really good airing. Thanks Paul.

[747]

Mike88 - 2015-12-01 7:58 AM

 

Muswell - 2015-11-30 11:23 PM

 

So how come growth in the UK was seven times that in France last year in spite of the lack of aires?

 

Haven't you realised that half a dozen motorhomes turning up mainly in the summer months is the answer to all economic woes? I agree with the point about excessive car parking charges driving people away from town centres but to suggest motorhomers, the majority of which bring their food with them, can reverse decline is absurd.

 

At a time when Councils are struggling to retain key staff especially in areas such as social care and are slashing capital budgets it is ludicrous to think that relatively prosperous motorhomers will be provided with facilities so that they can stay in areas on the cheap.

 

You must have missed the bit on the News the other day about Councils building up a nest egg for rainy days and contingencies.

 

They moan, groan and get rid of Staff but are still able to build up reserves of many Millions of Pounds.

[Mike88]

747 - 2015-12-01 10:42 AM

 

Mike88 - 2015-12-01 7:58 AM

 

Muswell - 2015-11-30 11:23 PM

 

So how come growth in the UK was seven times that in France last year in spite of the lack of aires?

 

Haven't you realised that half a dozen motorhomes turning up mainly in the summer months is the answer to all economic woes? I agree with the point about excessive car parking charges driving people away from town centres but to suggest motorhomers, the majority of which bring their food with them, can reverse decline is absurd.

 

At a time when Councils are struggling to retain key staff especially in areas such as social care and are slashing capital budgets it is ludicrous to think that relatively prosperous motorhomers will be provided with facilities so that they can stay in areas on the cheap.

 

You must have missed the bit on the News the other day about Councils building up a nest egg for rainy days and contingencies.

 

They moan, groan and get rid of Staff but are still able to build up reserves of many Millions of Pounds.

 

I did miss the bit on the news and am doubtful whether you have understood what was being said. Councils need to save money to tackle funding gaps caused by reduced government funding and rising demand for services. Can you imagine the fuss made if Councils spend money on subsidising relatively prosperous motorhomers with plenty of leisure time when their resident Council tax payers suffer as other services are withdrawn.

 

[747]

Council Tax payers are already suffering ...... especially in Scarborough, so I will agree with you there.

 

My link shows this and there is an even more interesting story near the bottom of the page about Councillor Jane Kenyon. It is well worth clicking on too. Some forum members have made disparaging remarks about the habits of some motorhomers. Well, they are nothing compared to this Lady, who is in a position of responsibility. I hope not all Scarborough Councillors are as bad as her. *-)

 

http://nyenquirer.uk/sbc-parking-refunds-ahoy/

[Derek Uzzell]

Despite the current ‘aires’ petition having run for roughly 4 months and its existence having been reported on many UK motorhome-forum websites and in motorhome magazines, it’s still under a third of the way towards the 10,000 signatures threshold that would trigger a government response.

 

Signatures are being added at about 10 per day, and if that rate continues until the February 5 2016 deadline a total of about 4000 signatures should be anticipated. That’s a fair number of signatures, but needs to be compared with the 250,000 UK-registered motorhomes that John J Thompson mentions in his posting of 28 November 2015 10:29 AM.

 

As far as I’m concerned John summarised the position perfectly in his posting - there’s no widespread interest in the UK motorcaravanning community as a whole for an ‘aires’ network similar to those abroad, and (as far as I can see) no indication that the people who say they want aires will do antyhing positive to get them.

[Bulletguy]

Brock - 2015-12-01 10:13 AM

 

City centres and town centres change with time. In my village, there are hardly any shops left but go to the local retail park which houses four high street brands and the place is buzzing. And I can park my motorhome for free. Farm shops prosper, the local Garden Centres host a number of small businesses whilst the internet shows no sign of tailing off as a place to do business.

 

Same here im my area and the retail parks are always on the outer limits of towns so i often wonder just how much a sq.mtr of ground space costs there as opposed to town centre? I suspect it's considerably less. I have a large retail park in my area but parking is a nightmare due to the cramped parking bays....and i'm only 5.5mtr of van. You certainly wouldn't get a CB in.

 

However all the 'big four' Supermarkets are now facing serious financial issues as customers fled to Aldi and Lidl both of whom have seen a massive increase in turnover.

 

I can remember the days when my home town was dominated by the Co-operative Wholesale Group who had numerous large and small shops in town. So big firms dominating at the expense of small businesses are nothing new.

 

Fond distant memories. Reminds me of a couple of small independent electrical shops which used to be in my town. One dealt in everything electrical from transistors to tv's and whether you were in there spending a few pence on transistors and bits of wire or a couple of hundred quid on a telly, you'd get plenty of advice thrown in for free. The other shop specialised in old army surplus radio gear and the owner smoked cigars. I can still smell the aroma of cigar smoke mixed with hot valves burning away! That shop was a magnet for me as a kid fascinated in short wave radio....i even built my first fishing rod from an old tank aerial!

 

I doff my hat to Bulletguy for raising the subject and sticking to it. The petition has been raised on numerous motorhome forums although this is the first time I've seen the petition have a really good airing. Thanks Paul.

 

Well i'm an optimist even if at times feeling pessimistic and p*ssing in the wind over this issue. It just grinds at me when continually being told we are one of the worlds wealthiest countries, we are so poor in many ways.

 

 

Derek Uzzell - 2015-12-01 2:00 PM

 

As far as I’m concerned John summarised the position perfectly in his posting - there’s no widespread interest in the UK motorcaravanning community as a whole for an ‘aires’ network similar to those abroad, and (as far as I can see) no indication that the people who say they want aires will do anything positive to get them.

 

I see where you are coming from on this Derek as i always used to drive down to Dover the day before my ferry crossing. I'd spend money on meals in the town centre, have a drink, walk around, buy some tat, stock up on food......then one year i got slapped with a parking ticket.

 

I've never spent one single penny in Dover since. It stays in my back pocket until i get across the channel. Imagine the impact if every single one of those 250,000 UK reg motorhome travellers did the same? That's one hell of a lot of business lost.....permanently.

[Guest pelmetman]

Derek Uzzell - 2015-11-30 9:15 AM

 

Bulletguy - 2015-11-28 6:19 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2015-11-28 9:58 AM

 

There seems to be a general belief amongst UK motorcaravanners that ‘aires’ in Continental Europe remain unaffected by ‘travellers’ - this is not the case and never has been.

 

You'd think so wouldn't you yet in my time of touring i’ve yet to see ONE traveller family on an Aire....

 

During my 17 years of motorcaravanning in France I’ve personally encountered 4 instances where ‘travellers’ had occupied municipally-owned areas assigned for motorhome parking.

 

 

During my 23 years of motorcaravanning in France we've only encountered it once at Forges Les Euax...........but at least in France your usually not that far from another aire ;-) ......

 

Although I don't recall many aires when we first started :D ............

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Dave Gomersall - 2015-11-28 2:18 PM

 

Or do they mean people who avoid paying their fair share of taxes such as many self-employed people

 

Or do they mean the many people who are employed by the state and get paid for doing b*gger all ;-) ........

 

 

[Tracker]

We used to have a tax inspector and his wife as good friends a few years back and he always reckoned that the vast majority of the self employed were a lot more honest in their tax affairs than many larger companies!