audiseller Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 colin - 2015-12-02 12:07 PM Steve928 - 2015-12-02 10:33 AM I was under the impression front crumple zones also played a role in lessening damage and injury to that impacted by the vehicle. I wonder where you'd stand if your vehicle's modified and re-inforced front end caused damage to another vehicle, or injury or death to a cyclist or pedestrian? Not a rhetorical question as I don't know the answer. On the face of it, this is where the VCA 'statement' earlier seems to fall down, by modifying the front structure of a vehicle how is it still type approved? Changing the front structure may make it better or may make it worse in an accident, has this calculated or tested? As for your own liability! I'm no expert, but if the insurance company has been informed they should cover any costs, Could the CPS make any case against you? I don't know, my gut feeling is no. Agreed, that's one of the reasons my van and toad are both insured with CC and declared as a-framing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 audiseller - 2015-12-02 7:27 PM Haven't seen that clip before. Absolutely horrendous. Would anyone really abuse their car like that? I have a-framed for a few years and have only ever reversed in a straight line and gently enough not to activate the overrun brakes. I have only ever had to do this twice. I have a jockey wheel on mine and it is very easy to disconnect from the van and manoevre the car independently. I personally wouldn't use the flimsy looking flat bar frame shown in the video either. Apologies, this post was meant to refer to pepe63's you tube video above While I agree with you about that clip, like others on here, you must be a better navigators than we are. We go wrong at least three times a day I reckon and that is just another reason would never use one of these things. I would certainly end up chucking it in the nearest ditch after the first failed reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 PJay - 2015-12-02 3:09 PM donna miller - 2015-12-02 2:55 PM Far too many "In my opinions", "I don't think so's", " I would have thought", "I do it all over the USA/World" and you know what?. Not one of them will stand up in a court of law should you be taken there. Trying to compare an A frame unit to a towbar is ridiculous, it's like saying a windscreen is the same as a rear window. It's not, they are designed to do different jobs. Maybe the moderators should consider blocking A frame threads as they now serve no usefull purpose other than to bring out the same answers from the same people every time. Well said Donna All answers are opinions PJay Not all answers are opinions. For example, the answer to the question “Does CAR-A-TOW currently manufacture A-frame towing systems?” is “Yes”. This is not an opinion because it’s factually accurate. Answering “Yes” to the question “Are the CAR-A-TOW A-frame towing systems well-engineered?” is an opinion, but perhaps could be validated by expert inspection. Answering “Yes” to the question “Do the CAR-A-TOW A-frame towing systems comply fully with UK trailer regulations?" is also an opinion, but could be much harder to verify. Hadrian apologised in his original posting for inquiring about A-frames/trailers again, but forum members are not compelled to respond. If they do and, in doing so, go over old ground, that’s just too bad. (That’s an opinion, incidentally ;-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Derek, you don't seem to understand how forums work, if you agree with a post it's a fact, if you don't agree it's an opinion which is wrong. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 colin - 2015-12-03 11:06 AM Derek, you don't seem to understand how forums work, if you agree with a post it's a fact, if you don't agree it's an opinion which is wrong. :D In my opinion you need to get your facts right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiseller Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 rupert123 - 2015-12-02 9:12 PM audiseller - 2015-12-02 7:27 PM Haven't seen that clip before. Absolutely horrendous. Would anyone really abuse their car like that? I have a-framed for a few years and have only ever reversed in a straight line and gently enough not to activate the overrun brakes. I have only ever had to do this twice. I have a jockey wheel on mine and it is very easy to disconnect from the van and manoevre the car independently. I personally wouldn't use the flimsy looking flat bar frame shown in the video either. Apologies, this post was meant to refer to pepe63's you tube video above While I agree with you about that clip, like others on here, you must be a better navigators than we are. We go wrong at least three times a day I reckon and that is just another reason would never use one of these things. I would certainly end up chucking it in the nearest ditch after the first failed reverse. Think that's what I would be doing with my navigator in that case! Personally cannot see why anybody, unless they are worried about the potential continental question, could put up with all the faff of a trailer never mind finding somewhere to park it onsite. In response to an earlier poster, his argument that if you must have a car, a caravan is quicker to pitch is seldom the case in my experience as I am usually pitched, hooked up and opening my first beer by the time the average caravaner has inched his way onto his pitch with his movers. My hydraulic levellers do speed the process up a tad though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 audiseller - 2015-12-03 1:31 PM rupert123 - 2015-12-02 9:12 PM audiseller - 2015-12-02 7:27 PM Haven't seen that clip before. Absolutely horrendous. Would anyone really abuse their car like that? I have a-framed for a few years and have only ever reversed in a straight line and gently enough not to activate the overrun brakes. I have only ever had to do this twice. I have a jockey wheel on mine and it is very easy to disconnect from the van and manoevre the car independently. I personally wouldn't use the flimsy looking flat bar frame shown in the video either. Apologies, this post was meant to refer to pepe63's you tube video above While I agree with you about that clip, like others on here, you must be a better navigators than we are. We go wrong at least three times a day I reckon and that is just another reason would never use one of these things. I would certainly end up chucking it in the nearest ditch after the first failed reverse. Think that's what I would be doing with my navigator in that case! Personally cannot see why anybody, unless they are worried about the potential continental question, could put up with all the faff of a trailer never mind finding somewhere to park it onsite. In response to an earlier poster, his argument that if you must have a car, a caravan is quicker to pitch is seldom the case in my experience as I am usually pitched, hooked up and opening my first beer by the time the average caravaner has inched his way onto his pitch with his movers. My hydraulic levellers do speed the process up a tad though. That could cause a problem, navigator is the wife or the satnav. Although we 'sort of' plan things they do not always work out as we are very easily diverted. One of the main reasons we have a mh rather than a caravan is the ability to just wander rather than having a fixed destination. We usually set out for somewhere but on the way spot something else of interest so things nearly always involve a bit of turning around or diversions not on the original route. Guess we are just not organised enough. We also spend a lot of time in the mountains, having something on tow would just be a nightmare on tight hairpins, especially with folk coming the other way, some reversing is always likely. We carry a scooter which for us is ideal. As others have said if you want to tow get a caravan, it just makes more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-12-03 10:24 AM Not all answers are opinions. For example, the answer to the question “Does CAR-A-TOW currently manufacture A-frame towing systems?” is “Yes”. This is not an opinion because it’s factually accurate. Answering “Yes” to the question “Are the CAR-A-TOW A-frame towing systems well-engineered?” is an opinion, but perhaps could be validated by expert inspection. Answering “Yes” to the question “Do the CAR-A-TOW A-frame towing systems comply fully with UK trailer regulations?" is also an opinion, but could be much harder to verify. Hadrian apologised in his original posting for inquiring about A-frames/trailers again, but forum members are not compelled to respond. If they do and, in doing so, go over old ground, that’s just too bad. (That’s an opinion, incidentally ;-) ) I never really considered you to be a paid up member of the forum pedants, until now. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 donna miller - 2015-12-03 3:54 PM I never really considered you to be a paid up member of the forum pedants, until now. *-) I am the obsessive; The organised and irrational I am the compulsive; The repetitive and pedantic I am the anxious; The cautious and paranoid I am the sleepless; The exhausted and restless I am the dejected; The alone and scarred I have issues; This is my cry for help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiseller Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 rupert123 - 2015-12-03 3:17 PM audiseller - 2015-12-03 1:31 PM rupert123 - 2015-12-02 9:12 PM audiseller - 2015-12-02 7:27 PM Haven't seen that clip before. Absolutely horrendous. Would anyone really abuse their car like that? I have a-framed for a few years and have only ever reversed in a straight line and gently enough not to activate the overrun brakes. I have only ever had to do this twice. I have a jockey wheel on mine and it is very easy to disconnect from the van and manoevre the car independently. I personally wouldn't use the flimsy looking flat bar frame shown in the video either. Apologies, this post was meant to refer to pepe63's you tube video above While I agree with you about that clip, like others on here, you must be a better navigators than we are. We go wrong at least three times a day I reckon and that is just another reason would never use one of these things. I would certainly end up chucking it in the nearest ditch after the first failed reverse. Think that's what I would be doing with my navigator in that case! Personally cannot see why anybody, unless they are worried about the potential continental question, could put up with all the faff of a trailer never mind finding somewhere to park it onsite. In response to an earlier poster, his argument that if you must have a car, a caravan is quicker to pitch is seldom the case in my experience as I am usually pitched, hooked up and opening my first beer by the time the average caravaner has inched his way onto his pitch with his movers. My hydraulic levellers do speed the process up a tad though. That could cause a problem, navigator is the wife or the satnav. Although we 'sort of' plan things they do not always work out as we are very easily diverted. One of the main reasons we have a mh rather than a caravan is the ability to just wander rather than having a fixed destination. We usually set out for somewhere but on the way spot something else of interest so things nearly always involve a bit of turning around or diversions not on the original route. Guess we are just not organised enough. We also spend a lot of time in the mountains, having something on tow would just be a nightmare on tight hairpins, especially with folk coming the other way, some reversing is always likely. We carry a scooter which for us is ideal. As others have said if you want to tow get a caravan, it just makes more sense. Yes but towing a sub 1 tonne trailer (car) with a wheel at each corner is a sight different from towing a relatively unstable caravan with huge windage. To tow a large enough caravan I would require a heavy 4x4 or similar and I certainly wouldn't want to drive that when not towing. I believe caravans in the UK are also limited to 7 metres so yet another reason to tow with my motorhome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Totally agree with you audiseller,and I have 15 years experience of towing caravans with lots of different tow cars, and ran a 4x4 as a towcar, Motor home towing a small car on an A- frame is far more stable AND safer, I do it, and it suits us. But I fear our opinions and experiences will be drowned out by those who haven't tried either, as usual on any any thread concerning A-Frames. This is my last post on this thread, as my opinion is well represented, if not understood. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancepar Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 This is a Smarty pushing a MH 8-) http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c214/lancepar/Autotrail/th_IOM-2015-Web_zpssmns4v9n.jpg B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiseller Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-12-01 9:10 AM PJay - 2015-11-30 6:50 PM Out of curiosity !! Not intending to tow Do people who adapt a car for A Frame , Tell the DVLA ? As I believe that you should inform them of any change to the original vehicle ? Also the insurers ? PJay This website mentions notifying the DVLA of vehicle modifications http://www.the-ace.org.uk/existing-registered-vehicles-the-8-point-rule-and-retrospective-biva/ and refers to the INF26 guidance document https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/168405/response/409901/attach/2/inf26%201.pdf The DVLA does not need to be told when a rear-mounted tow-bar is fitted to a vehicle, so there’s no particular reason to believe the DVLA would need to be informed when a towing attachment is fitted to the vehicle’s front. I would expect a UK insurance provider to wish to be made aware that an A-frame towing attachment had been added to a car and this would normally become evident when the owner of the car that has been A-frame-modified seeks insurance for when the car is being towed. What happens insurance-provider-wise if the modified car is then sold to someone who chooses not to tow it is anybody’s guess. Does the new owner tell his/her insurer that the car has had a hefty steel structure shoehorned into the vehicle’s crumple zone - who knows? Surely if the vendor was not selling it as a toad he would have the original crossmember re-fitted to return the car to original spec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Which is precisely what I intend to do, and why I kept the original crossmember and fittings. Oops another post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 audiseller - 2015-12-04 7:45 PM Surely if the vendor was not selling it as a toad he would have the original crossmember re-fitted to return the car to original spec? Over the years I’ve seen plenty of secondhand A-frames advertised and also adverts for plenty of cars that have been modified to be towed via an A-frame, but I’ve never seen an advert for the metal A-frame-attachment structure that’s historically been added to a car. When modifying a car to allow it to be A-frame towed involves removing structural parts and replacing them with a fabricated metal ‘frame’ and the car’s owner sells the vehicle subsequently, can it be said with certainty that the owner will always have removed the frame prior to the sale, or, if not, will always have passed on to the buyer the structural parts that were originally removed? Of course it can’t - and even if the owner of the car that had it A-framed in the first place passes on the structural parts, there’s no guarantee that subsequent owners of that vehicle will act similarly. A-framed car will generally pass from A-framer to A-framer, but it’s a racing certainty that there will be A-framed cars out there that are not being towed but still have their attachment structure in place. Pauline (P Jay) queried whether the DVLA needed to be advised when a car is modified to be A-frame towed and the answer is (probably) not. She also asked whether insurance providers needed to be told when a car had been so modified, and I would expect the answer to be Yes. If someone buys a car that has been A-framed in the past and still retains the modifications, I’d expect the insurance provider to want to know about this irrespective of whether the buyer tows the car or not. This assumption may be wrong (asking a few insurance providers could test the assumption) and it’s possible all owners of cars with an A-frame frontal structure have ensured that their insurance provider is aware of that modification. Who knows? This earlier forum discussion seems relevant. http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/A-frame-removal/34372/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 audiseller - 2015-12-03 10:31 PM rupert123 - 2015-12-03 3:17 PM audiseller - 2015-12-03 1:31 PM rupert123 - 2015-12-02 9:12 PM audiseller - 2015-12-02 7:27 PM Haven't seen that clip before. Absolutely horrendous. Would anyone really abuse their car like that? I have a-framed for a few years and have only ever reversed in a straight line and gently enough not to activate the overrun brakes. I have only ever had to do this twice. I have a jockey wheel on mine and it is very easy to disconnect from the van and manoevre the car independently. I personally wouldn't use the flimsy looking flat bar frame shown in the video either. Apologies, this post was meant to refer to pepe63's you tube video above While I agree with you about that clip, like others on here, you must be a better navigators than we are. We go wrong at least three times a day I reckon and that is just another reason would never use one of these things. I would certainly end up chucking it in the nearest ditch after the first failed reverse. Think that's what I would be doing with my navigator in that case! Personally cannot see why anybody, unless they are worried about the potential continental question, could put up with all the faff of a trailer never mind finding somewhere to park it onsite. In response to an earlier poster, his argument that if you must have a car, a caravan is quicker to pitch is seldom the case in my experience as I am usually pitched, hooked up and opening my first beer by the time the average caravaner has inched his way onto his pitch with his movers. My hydraulic levellers do speed the process up a tad though. That could cause a problem, navigator is the wife or the satnav. Although we 'sort of' plan things they do not always work out as we are very easily diverted. One of the main reasons we have a mh rather than a caravan is the ability to just wander rather than having a fixed destination. We usually set out for somewhere but on the way spot something else of interest so things nearly always involve a bit of turning around or diversions not on the original route. Guess we are just not organised enough. We also spend a lot of time in the mountains, having something on tow would just be a nightmare on tight hairpins, especially with folk coming the other way, some reversing is always likely. We carry a scooter which for us is ideal. As others have said if you want to tow get a caravan, it just makes more sense. Yes but towing a sub 1 tonne trailer (car) with a wheel at each corner is a sight different from towing a relatively unstable caravan with huge windage. To tow a large enough caravan I would require a heavy 4x4 or similar and I certainly wouldn't want to drive that when not towing. I believe caravans in the UK are also limited to 7 metres so yet another reason to tow with my motorhome. What is wrong with 4x4, we have had them for years, certainly a lot better than some rubbish mini car, or do you have to run a special car for your towing? If you do yet one more reason, it makes no sense. However each to his own and I guess we just visit different type of places and do different stuff, it certainly would not work in the mountains and for our sometimes aimless wandering. Guess you are much more organised, you would have to be with no reversing on the menu, nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiseller Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-12-05 9:17 AM audiseller - 2015-12-04 7:45 PM Surely if the vendor was not selling it as a toad he would have the original crossmember re-fitted to return the car to original spec? Over the years I’ve seen plenty of secondhand A-frames advertised and also adverts for plenty of cars that have been modified to be towed via an A-frame, but I’ve never seen an advert for the metal A-frame-attachment structure that’s historically been added to a car. When modifying a car to allow it to be A-frame towed involves removing structural parts and replacing them with a fabricated metal ‘frame’ and the car’s owner sells the vehicle subsequently, can it be said with certainty that the owner will always have removed the frame prior to the sale, or, if not, will always have passed on to the buyer the structural parts that were originally removed? Of course it can’t - and even if the owner of the car that had it A-framed in the first place passes on the structural parts, there’s no guarantee that subsequent owners of that vehicle will act similarly. A-framed car will generally pass from A-framer to A-framer, but it’s a racing certainty that there will be A-framed cars out there that are not being towed but still have their attachment structure in place. Pauline (P Jay) queried whether the DVLA needed to be advised when a car is modified to be A-frame towed and the answer is (probably) not. She also asked whether insurance providers needed to be told when a car had been so modified, and I would expect the answer to be Yes. If someone buys a car that has been A-framed in the past and still retains the modifications, I’d expect the insurance provider to want to know about this irrespective of whether the buyer tows the car or not. This assumption may be wrong (asking a few insurance providers could test the assumption) and it’s possible all owners of cars with an A-frame frontal structure have ensured that their insurance provider is aware of that modification. Who knows? This earlier forum discussion seems relevant. http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/A-frame-removal/34372/ I suppose this is always an inherent risk for secondhand car buyers. These cars may have had all sorts of modifications carried out during previous ownership. These could include engine modifications, brakes, suspension etc. ad infinitum. The new owner cannot be expected to know whether his car has had any non-obvious modifications and it would take a detailed inspection by a factory trained technician of that particular marque to discover non-standard parts. The only answer you can give to your insurer's question regarding any modifications would be " not to my knowledge ". Personally I would rather just enjoy my motorhoming without worrying about all the things that could but probably never would spoil my pleasure. I was raised during the era of no seat belts, no crash helmets and I even used to climb trees so today everything seems to carry much less risk or maybe I am just a danger junkie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiseller Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 rupert123 - 2015-12-05 11:59 AM audiseller - 2015-12-03 10:31 PM rupert123 - 2015-12-03 3:17 PM audiseller - 2015-12-03 1:31 PM rupert123 - 2015-12-02 9:12 PM audiseller - 2015-12-02 7:27 PM Haven't seen that clip before. Absolutely horrendous. Would anyone really abuse their car like that? I have a-framed for a few years and have only ever reversed in a straight line and gently enough not to activate the overrun brakes. I have only ever had to do this twice. I have a jockey wheel on mine and it is very easy to disconnect from the van and manoevre the car independently. I personally wouldn't use the flimsy looking flat bar frame shown in the video either. Apologies, this post was meant to refer to pepe63's you tube video above While I agree with you about that clip, like others on here, you must be a better navigators than we are. We go wrong at least three times a day I reckon and that is just another reason would never use one of these things. I would certainly end up chucking it in the nearest ditch after the first failed reverse. Think that's what I would be doing with my navigator in that case! Personally cannot see why anybody, unless they are worried about the potential continental question, could put up with all the faff of a trailer never mind finding somewhere to park it onsite. In response to an earlier poster, his argument that if you must have a car, a caravan is quicker to pitch is seldom the case in my experience as I am usually pitched, hooked up and opening my first beer by the time the average caravaner has inched his way onto his pitch with his movers. My hydraulic levellers do speed the process up a tad though. That could cause a problem, navigator is the wife or the satnav. Although we 'sort of' plan things they do not always work out as we are very easily diverted. One of the main reasons we have a mh rather than a caravan is the ability to just wander rather than having a fixed destination. We usually set out for somewhere but on the way spot something else of interest so things nearly always involve a bit of turning around or diversions not on the original route. Guess we are just not organised enough. We also spend a lot of time in the mountains, having something on tow would just be a nightmare on tight hairpins, especially with folk coming the other way, some reversing is always likely. We carry a scooter which for us is ideal. As others have said if you want to tow get a caravan, it just makes more sense. Yes but towing a sub 1 tonne trailer (car) with a wheel at each corner is a sight different from towing a relatively unstable caravan with huge windage. To tow a large enough caravan I would require a heavy 4x4 or similar and I certainly wouldn't want to drive that when not towing. I believe caravans in the UK are also limited to 7 metres so yet another reason to tow with my motorhome. What is wrong with 4x4, we have had them for years, certainly a lot better than some rubbish mini car, or do you have to run a special car for your towing? If you do yet one more reason, it makes no sense. However each to his own and I guess we just visit different type of places and do different stuff, it certainly would not work in the mountains and for our sometimes aimless wandering. Guess you are much more organised, you would have to be with no reversing on the menu, nightmare. Nothing wrong with a 4x4 if you have a use for it like towing a caravan or horse box, the point I was making was that I wouldn't like to have to drive that type of vehicle when I wasn't towing. At least my toad, an Abarth, can be used as a very quick runabout when not towing or when away in the motorhome and I can still have another car to enjoy at home whereas it would seem a waste to have the 4x4 sitting there unused. I cannot answer re a rubbish mini car as I have never had one. It is certainly more expensive to have a motorhome and toad but far preferable for me and the big plus is I can have bigger accommodation than I could with a caravan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I run 2 vehicles. my towed car, which is also my everyday car, a Toyota Yaris 5 door hatchback, which is plenty big enough for us, and is very economical ,but wouldn't tow much of a caravan. Road tax 30 pounds. And my motorhome 3850 kg road tax 165 pounds. So, total tax 195 pounds..... less than a sub 3500 kg motor home !! Extra insurance yes, but pretty cheap to run all the same. Nothing against 4x4s ,I used to run one when I towed a caravan. But they are expensive and a bit wasteful To run solo. Another post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I suspect that Hadrian (the original oster) lost heart on Page 1 of this forum thread, but it may still be worth looking at the files on this Car-A-Tow webpage http://www.caratow.com/moreinformation.php (The “Comments fron CAR-A-Tow” file is particularly entertaining...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-12-06 11:57 AM I suspect that Hadrian (the original oster) lost heart on Page 1 of this forum thread, but it may still be worth looking at the files on this Car-A-Tow webpage http://www.caratow.com/moreinformation.php (The “Comments fron CAR-A-Tow” file is particularly entertaining...) Why ever would he have lost heart, he has got more feedback on a subject that has been 'done to death' already, he should be really happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 lancepar - 2015-12-04 3:26 PM This is a Smarty pushing a MH 8-) http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c214/lancepar/Autotrail/th_IOM-2015-Web_zpssmns4v9n.jpg B-) a scooter AND a Toad! Now that's just being greedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancepar Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Ray...... Yep, I agree. There was a need, a one off, not a regular exercise. Worked out very well thought and had the similar “seen it all now” comments from other Bikers/Motorhomers/Tuggers using the IOM Ferry’s. And Henry ......... I have been exchanging PM’s with Hadrian regarding pros and con’s using A-frames. I expect other peeps on here have been doing the same. B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Hi Ray, You and I both!. I am happy with the idea, I have "done it all ways" as the saying goes. It suits ME and MY lifestyle. IMHO. The loss is not mine. I like others give opinion on what my experience IS. not what the "Theory" is. Far more to do with my life that argue with those (Pedants?) who fail to see that there are ALWAYS 2 sides to any issue (at least!) Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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