Violet1956 Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 I am beginning to despair about finding a MH for us. Perhaps I have been reading too many posts about problems. The entries on the forum about Swift/UK manufactured vehicles terrify me. Then there's the posts about problems with reverse gear on Ducatos in the mid 2000s which is where our budget (£20-25K) would dictate we look. Dodgy dealers, worthless warranties and ridiculous dealer prices have put me off the whole idea that a MH is for us. Don't really want to go back to towing a caravan but may be it is the most sensible option. If there are so many pitfalls why does anyone buy a MH? Can somebody out there tell me that they have owned and enjoyed a MH without incurring ridiculous expense and how they managed not to pay over the top for it in the first place? :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Where is it written that life is easy and everything one wants just suddenly appears on cue! Firstly the perfect van does not exist - not even new - in fact especially not new! Perfection is an unobtainable illusion chased by us all and the best you can hope for in any budget is that it will do some things very well, most things acceptably well and very few things badly, but what ever you buy it pays to keep a contingency fund of a couple of grand back just in case! I've been motorhomig for 50 years and I've had lots of good vans and a few bad vans, vans that have cost me an arm and a leg and vans that have even made me a profit and somewhere in between the extremes is where most of us find ourselves most of the time. There were no forums when I started, in fact there were very few vans, so I learnt the hard way - from experience, but then again vans were less complex then - and less reliable - but also less expensive to fix. There is no easy answer, do your research, as you seem to be doing, drive as many as you can, try the layouts for practicality as some are not, but as we are all different we all have our own size, shape, style and layout preferences. The van we have now I waited 4 years to find used at an acceptable price as I was not prepared to pay the new price, during which time I have had one excellent van that I regreted selling and one disaster that I couldn't wait to get shot of! Personally I would rather have an 05-56 plate previous generation Ducato/Boxer which were very well sorted come the end of production than an 07-08 current model chassis. That said they are now 10 years old and whilst there are plenty of good 'uns out there as generally they were better built in my humble view, but still it is the luck of the draw whether you get a good 'un or a bad 'un. Sooner or later most things come to he/she who is too bloody minded to give up looking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Two years is the answer to your question it won't be perfect but it should be as near as you going to get. Good luck keep on trying it will be worth the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 Thanks tracker. My search continues and an 05 or 06 plate was my guess at a reasonably safe option. I have also thought of going to Germany where the choice appears much larger though the import issues have daunted me somewhat. I am getting increasingly fussy as the years go by and miss the years I was prepared to throw caution to the wind. Have taken some comfort from the fact that a few grand in reserve may possibly resolve all the potential problems an old van might have. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 Two years...yep I think you are right Colin. I just need to be patient. I'm really keen on Laikas but there are so few in the second hand market. Wonder if the sellers are waiting 'til spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiseller Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Don't be too obsessed by low mileage either as sometimes the low mileage ones are the ones that can have issues. First basic is to find the layout that suits you best and then find the van with the best service/hab history & condition that you can afford. There aren't as many but rear wheel drive is a bonus worth having unless you only want to pitch on hardstanding. The other advantage of not buying new is that somebody else has fettled it before you and hopefully fitted some worthwhile options and of course depreciation has virtually levelled out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyg3nwl Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Hi, my most unhelpful answer to your fundamental question is how long is a piece of string. in other words, there simply isnt a sensible answer, as you have been through caravans, you presumeably have a basic idea of your preference of layout, so start from there, you have been reading the forum and all the comments thereon relating to faults and dealer failings etc, so you have to weigh up the truth or otherwise of these comments. how many reports of praise have you read, compared with faulty reports.. I bet there are more adverse comments than praise, but you have to make your own mind up..are the critical reports serious enough to avoid like the plague. I have been through caravans like you, and conclude that nothing is perfect.. you just pay your money, and hope that your experience enables you to make a good judgement, but keep a percentage back in reserve to cater for the unexpected problems There is an old saying, " he who hesitates is lost", or alternatively, " a fool and his money are soon parted" No help at all I know, but good luck in your search..and enjoy it whenever and wherever it takes you. tong3nwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 I agree with Tracker and I prefer the Mid 00s and the 2.8 Ducato as a base vehicle. I also agree with him that you never find the prefect van-there is always a compromise and always something someone has that you'd like but the same applies to them re your van. What to buy? That depends on what your priorities are-you have to decide what would be a necessity, what would be nice to have, what you don't really want/need and work from there. We wanted a fixed bed, a garage, a powerful enough engine to pull Bike & Trailer and/or (Dare I say?) A-frame! We also decided after having an overcab it wasn't for us and preferred a low profile. Armed with that we looked at various vans and at the time we found a 'Luxury' van in the Italian 'Budget' range that were popular in the early/mid 00s. We bought an Elnagh Slim 6 in 2006 which was a 2005 model (pre facelift) with 2.8 Ducato base vehicle. This van has been perfect for us and we have looked to change it a couple of times but could never find anything that gave us more of our requirements than we already have without spending about £30k on top of our van-as our van is ours & paid for so to spend £30k on upgrading it for little extra or having £30k worth of holidays is an out and out no-brainer (I don't have £30k to spend so would have to get it on drip anyway) So-my point is: If you have a list, try and match this against a 2005ish Italian van which you will pick up top of range for about £25K-this will give you a lot of luxury at a lower price than say a Hymer etc and although they are not top of everyone's wishlist they are a decent van. We have had from new 4 wipers, 1 wheel bearing, front disc pads and apart from routine servicing, I had the timing belt changed due to age but the mechanic told me it was fine on removal! On the habitation, we have had new shower tap (due to freezing up-My fault) shower tray repair and the upholstery changed due to fading-not bad in almost 10 years. There are no problem getting spares as the Fiat is almost Universal and Elnagh is part of the SEA group which own a number of brands not least Autotrail which everyone assumes English. You could do a lot worse than an Elnagh/Roller Team etc. Don't know your location but if you are anywhere near us you are welcome to have a look round ours to see what you get for your money. Good luck and hope you find what you're looking for Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 Have very similar requirements to you Mike. Elnagh and Roller team are on my "might be ok" list along with Laikas- my OH doesn't like Hymers. Roller Teams a plenty ont t'internet but Laikas and Elnaghs are a rare bread in the s/h market. Thank you for the invite unfortunately we are way south of Huddersfield. I hope you are not affected by the floods. You have given me much food for thought. Going to look more closely at Elnaghs when they come up. Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 Found an Elnagh clipper 2006 for sale in Morayshire. Looks just the job but miles away doh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Violet1956 - 2015-12-29 9:18 PM Have very similar requirements to you Mike. Elnagh and Roller team are on my "might be ok" list along with Laikas- my OH doesn't like Hymers. Roller Teams a plenty ont t'internet but Laikas and Elnaghs are a rare bread in the s/h market. Thank you for the invite unfortunately we are way south of Huddersfield. I hope you are not affected by the floods. You have given me much food for thought. Going to look more closely at Elnaghs when they come up. Many thanks. Hope you find what you're looking for. Re the floods, we are fine thanks-we live on the moors above all the floods so lucky really-it's devastating for the people in the valley. If you've found one that may fit the bill in Morayshire why not ask for a video or skype to look round it and then you can get an idea of it. Easy to do these days with Skype or Whatsapp etc-and free! If they have nothing to hide they should be happy to show it. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 There are other continental makes that have budget range motorhomes. Hymer have Carada, Dethleffs have Sunlight, Adria have Sport or Coral, Pilote have Bravia (? spelling) to name a few. All have low profiles in their range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Hi; we have an 08 reg Ducato "white van" conversion. We were lucky enough to have ours "sorted" by Fiat. I would expect that any Ducato that had a problem of the type you mention would have been similarly "sorted", if not, and if you are not presented with proof, then walk away. This is our first camper, and probably our last; we've no desire or need to change it, we've done 31K in it over 5 years, and it's now done 52K. Just a youngster! The previous, 2.8 version, may be your preferred model; all I can say is that I love driving our 2.2 X250. If your budget dictates, then I'm sure you'll find a good one to invest in. I would agree that a low mileage model is not necessarily the best option. I know nothing about the habitation side of vans, and I think that is where the biggest risk is. Good luck, hope you find a good one, regards alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 On any forum you will get far more complaints than plaudits, who writes in to say nothing is going wrong? The Fiat x250 is now the standard base for motorhomes as they produce a specific model for coach builders with a lower, wider chassis with different gear ratios. So as such you see more comments about it. The reversing judder is just that, a vibration if you reverse up a hill, most have been fixed. The water ingress is a nuisance, but rarely causes an issue, again can be fixed. Electrics can be an issue, in that it is an Italian built white van. But again probably less than ten on forums I have read. You don't really find your perfect Moho until you have holidayedin one for a couple of years and found what works and what doesn't in real life. Buy one, now is the perfect time for a bargain, and then experience the freedom and fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 There's a learning curve and it measures in the number of trials of MH types as well as time spent researching etc. In our case it took three MH purchases over a period of several year, then we got one which was so close to the ideal for us that we have kept it for ten years. We recently looked around for a change and decided to keep our present MH even longer, so I suppose we've got it about right for us. Budget matters of course, so if you are setting modest sights, don't expect to find the perfect MH, just one that gets fairly close. There probably isn't a perfect MH anyway and if you had the money and garage space to have several, you'd probably choose a mixture of types, to suit different types of holiday or outing. Don't rush at it but don't spend years and years agonising either. And don't expect to get it completely right first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Violet, if you don't like tough talking, then read no further. It took me less than 3 months to move from caravanning to motorhoming. Given information available nowadays through various media, it should take less. It takes us less than a month to change vans now. The problem you will encounter in buying a second hand motorhome are no different than you encounter buying a second hand car and caravan. It may be easier because motorhomes are generally well loved after. Motorhomes are not caravans. What you want in a caravan is not necessarily what you need in a motorhome. You have to work out what you are going to do in your motorhome and start from there. If all you are going to do is caravan on 4 wheels instead of six, then stick to manufacturers who build caravans and the occasional motorhome. Or stick to caravanning. For example, a good sized kitchen and a U-shaped lounge are often desired by caravanners. Motorhomes tend to have pokey kitchens and U-shaped lounge models are rare. The reason is that motorhomes are for touring, especially on the Continent, and not for sitting on sites for weeks on end whilst it rains. I wonder whether you are trying to make an objective decision about what to buy but comments along the lines of your OH doesn't like Hymers and you like Laikas suggest you are making subjective assessments. I have always used an objective Decision Making model when buying two caravans and six motorhomes. It allows me to have something in their that deals with the 'do I like it' issue because it is important. There will always be somebody who claims they could have bought a better motorhome than you for less. Ignore them. Your motorhome is worth what you are willing to pay to get what you want. Set aside a few thousand pounds as a contingency in case something does go wrong. Buy from an established dealer with a good track record if you are unsure what you are doing. You'll pay more but probably save more in the long run. I suspect the reason you are procrastinating is that you are not yet committed to going down the motorhoming route. Nothing wrong with that. Better to listen to your doubts and deal with them than worry about them. Once you get your head around it, the van best suited to your needs will be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 As ex-caravanners the only thing I would say is find the right layout for you don't depend on the make, the layout is more important and of course the price. Our first 2 vans had fixed beds (Rapido & Laika) and we found them too restrictive. Our 3rd van was a Pilote with fixed single beds, brilliant van, but now we are back living in the UK we wanted something smaller. We now have an Auto-Trail Tracker and although we have to make the beds up each night it is not a problem. We did make a list when we were looking for our first van of what we thought we wanted but soon realised that using a motorhome against using a caravan is totally different, took a while to get out of the caravanner mode. Good luck in your search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Violet, if you tell us in which part of the country you are located perhaps some info regarding your nearest good bad and indifferent dealers would be forthcoming from those who have experience as a good or bad dealer can make or break the motorhoming experience especially for a first timer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJB Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 At the end of the day, which sounds about now for you, you go to a dealer see the MH that takes your fancy.....then buy it!!!!!!! Easy! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazdog6007 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Violet,why do you want a m/home? are you not happy with a caravan,not an image thing is it.we have owned seven m/homes,as pulling a caravan around on site was a pain! Now when i see motor movers being used thats solved the problem.buy a new caravan,keep it three years.re-new it for peanuts.pitched up,you have the car.How many m/homes do you see towing a car.because going back to a caravan would cost a fortune!.Plus it will cost you nothing while laid up......only an opinion :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Violet1956 - 2015-12-29 6:53 PM I am beginning to despair about finding a MH for us. Perhaps I have been reading too many posts about problems. I think that may your problem Violet. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have owned and enjoyed their motorhomes without " incurring ridiculous expense " They just don't tell everyone about it on forums - they are away enjoying themselves ! Good luck. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiseller Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 tazdog6007 - 2015-12-30 1:29 PM Violet,why do you want a m/home? are you not happy with a caravan,not an image thing is it.we have owned seven m/homes,as pulling a caravan around on site was a pain! Now when i see motor movers being used thats solved the problem.buy a new caravan,keep it three years.re-new it for peanuts.pitched up,you have the car.How many m/homes do you see towing a car.because going back to a caravan would cost a fortune!.Plus it will cost you nothing while laid up......only an opinion :-S Don't think many toaders will agree with that one. It's substantially cheaper to have a caravan and most people use the towcar as transport when not towing so only have the extra cost of the caravan. I suppose I could have a Vanmaster and a Range Rover but certainly have no desire to. Apart from anything else there isn't a caravan large enough and I don't want a huge 4x4 instead of a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Violet I would hazard a guess that most people will say 'you never will' because no matter what you're looking for there will be the almost inevitable need to compromise on something or other. However you can get close to it....or as close as your level of satisfaction/compromise will allow. I would strongly recommend looking for your ideal/aceptable layout first and foremost, obviously within your price range. Once you have found the vehicle ascertain before going any further that it has a current damp check report (regardless of the age of the vehicle because damp is not necessarily age related). The dealership should be able to provide this. If it not available or will be provided I would walk away. Next a base vehicle history and finally a habitation service (dealership should be able to carry out this if a check report is not current). These three checks 'should' give you a 'paperwork' picture as to the condition of the vehicle. The most important being 'damp' because if there is damp in the MH needing attention it will be costly meaning ...walk away. As others have said there really is no perfect MH (unless you are extremely lucky) and compromise is the way forward.......so with a vehicle that has damp report, vehicle service and habitation check records you are on your way to miles and miles of smiles because with those 'checks' you already know the basics are sound.......(or at least as sound as can be). Happy hunting....... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Base vehicle service history is important but it is harder, in my humble view, to think of a more worthless bit of bumf than a habitation check! I take one of these (below) with me and as dealers will always let you crawl over a van whilst they go and something else I take the opportunity to do my own damp check in all those far away little nooks, crannies, cupboards and corners where damp likes to take hold. No need for it to cost a fortune - one of these is quite good enough! http://www.amazon.co.uk/Proster-Moisture-Detector-Tester-Humidity/dp/B00L7B7H34/ref=sr_1_3?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1451495216&sr=1-3&keywords=damp+test+meter Of greater value is some sort of warranty from the dealer about rectification of the issue if you later find any damp whilst the van is under warranty. May i suggest that you locate a couple of vans that really excite you and ask for any owner experiences on here as between us I suspect that we on here have owned just about every van known to mankind over the years - some like me only British because the layouts suit me, and other never British for a varity of reasons. Damp problems can be fixed at a price but the wrong layout cannot and changing the van will also cost a small fortune if you do get the layout wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 Hi to all the kind people who have tendered their sixpenneth. You have given me much food for thought. I know pretty much exactly what we want. As for dealers we have SMC in Taplow nearby and I have checked their stock and there's nothing suitable at the moment. The other alternative would be dealers in West London or Reading. Don't want a caravan again it is years since we had one and I really didn't like towing very much. Will continue my search bearing in my all good advice. Thanks and Happy New Year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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