audiseller Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Violet, at least if you buy privately and use it for a year or so and find the layout or whatever does not suit you should be able to easily move it on for no loss. That is what I did when changing from caravan to m/home and it was a worthwhile exercise ending up with the vehicle/layout that suited our needs. Some posters may not agree but complete habitation history would not only record any earlier damp problems but also points to a caring previous pride of ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Violet1956 - 2015-12-29 6:53 PM I am beginning to despair about finding a MH for us. Perhaps I have been reading too many posts about problems. The entries on the forum about Swift/UK manufactured vehicles terrify me. Then there's the posts about problems with reverse gear on Ducatos in the mid 2000s which is where our budget (£20-25K) would dictate we look. Dodgy dealers, worthless warranties and ridiculous dealer prices have put me off the whole idea that a MH is for us. Don't really want to go back to towing a caravan but may be it is the most sensible option. If there are so many pitfalls why does anyone buy a MH? Can somebody out there tell me that they have owned and enjoyed a MH without incurring ridiculous expense and how they managed not to pay over the top for it in the first place? :-( To answer your last question first, yes. We are on our third van, and have not incurred excessive costs on any. However, what is excessive is rather a matter of opinion. :-) They have been maintained and serviced as required, and have had such annual inspections as are required to maintain water ingress warranties in force. No 1, a Burstner, we only had for 18 months, because I found it was too wide at 2.3 metres to comfortably take us where we wanted to go. No 2, A Hobby (narrower, at 2.1 metres), which we had five years, had to have new brake discs, due to wear, but that was the result of use. It had four instances of leakage, all repaired under warranty without argument. Four leaks may sound a bit off-putting, but in truth the first (in year 1) was due to a very difficult to find sealant failure that caused no damage whatever (just a wet floor), the second (in year two) was a leak on one of the "garage" doors that was cured by replacing the door. Damp didn't come through the door, just soaked into it on the bottom edge causing minor water staining. The third (in year five) was a failed seal in the washroom rooflight that let water in between the two layers, but not into the van. The rooflight was replaced. The fourth (late in year five) was failure of the seal around a fixed over cab rooflight that allowed a small amount of water into a roof locker, and was fixed by removing and re-sealing the rooflight. No 3 is a Hymer (2.15 metres), and has had an inside rooflight frame replaced because one of the blinds began jamming. All three were bought new, and all were left hand drive because we mainly use them on the continent. The first was bought in France, the others in Germany. All were considerably cheaper than they would have been in UK. I too don't really understand "like Liaka, don't like Hymer". In the first place, Liaka is owned by Hymer, so I'm unsure what distinction is being made. Second, whatever van you buy will have almost identical fittings within it. Fridges, cookers, toilets, 12V electrical installations, heaters etc, all come from a handful of makers and most have only cosmetic changes, if that, between one van brand and another. These are your "life support" installations and are generally very reliable. They are also common to most caravans. The bodyshells of motorhomes are made in much the same way as those of caravans, so no great differences there. Outer skins of aluminium sheet, some GRP sheet, inner skins of ply or MDF, insulation between, front and rear mouldings usually of GRP. The majority of motorhome manufacturers are large groups making vehicles in a range of plants under various brand names. Most also produce caravans. There really isn't that much difference in the way their caravans and motorhomes are made. A motorhome is really little more than a caravan parked on a light commercial vehicle chassis. Many of the age you are looking at will have wooden structural frames, all will be 7 or so years old. That is one risk that can be avoided by selecting vans that don't use wooden frames. More recent vans are tending to move to fully bonded sandwich construction with no timber in the sandwich, but few of the age you are looking at had adopted these techniques. The main weak points are the joints between the major elements: walls, roof, front and rear mouldings, and the cab. The second tier are the joints around doors, windows and rooflights. All such joints rely on sealants, which in turn rely on care in assembly and good design. Some have acquired reputations for leakage, some for generally leak free construction. It is not too hard to see which have the worst reputations for water ingress, and which are seldom cited as leaking. I think for peace of mind you need to look beneath the surface, and concentrate more on how they are put together than on how they look. If you don't like the interior style of a van, remember that it is not that expensive to get new soft furnishings and curtains to change it to your taste. Then, focus on reputation and build quality, and look at the condition of the interior and exterior. Wear, neglect, and careless use are not that hard to spot, and are likely to indicate that other problems may well emerge. Comprehensive, readily produced, service histories, together with evidence that any remaining warranties are still valid, should complete the picture. However, don't expect to buy a seven year old van, keep it further a few years, and not have any problems. They are not built to the same robust quality as buildings, and even buildings require maintenance and occasional repairs to keep them in good condition. I'm not dismissing the possibility that you may be that lucky, just that it is more likely than not that something will go wrong and need fixing. I agree regarding low mileages. These are, at base, commercial vehicles built for a short, hard, life during which they will cover hundreds of thousands of miles. This does not change when they are converted to motorhomes: they need to be driven to keep them in reasonable condition. Anything much less than 5,000 miles per year on average would worry me a bit, and less than 3,000 miles would worry me quite a lot. Ours have averaged about 550 miles per month, or say 6,500 annually, and they seem to have run well with that level of use. I'm not claiming that this is some kind of ideal, but the lower the mileage the longer it is likely the van will have spent static, and a number of problems seem to emerge with vans that get little use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 flicka - 2015-12-29 11:20 PM There are other continental makes that have budget range motorhomes. Hymer have Carada, Dethleffs have Sunlight, Adria have Sport or Coral, Pilote have Bravia (? spelling) to name a few. All have low profiles in their range. Agree, if you buy a Carado or Sunlight in Belgium or Germany you will get a brand new van for your budget, a little basic but with Hymer build quality, both built in the same Hymer owned factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campfos Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Violet1956 - 2015-12-30 6:12 PM Hi to all the kind people who have tendered their sixpenneth. You have given me much food for thought. I know pretty much exactly what we want. As for dealers we have SMC in Taplow nearby and I have checked their stock and there's nothing suitable at the moment. The other alternative would be dealers in West London or Reading. Don't want a caravan again it is years since we had one and I really didn't like towing very much. Will continue my search bearing in my all good advice. Thanks and Happy New Year. Hi I I've only been motorhoming for about two years now,did the caravaning thing years ago which was ok. We looked at Caravans when I retired but in the end bought a Rimor Sailer on a Mercedes chassis this was good with the Garage under the big raised double bed. As I was hell bent on getting a merc it was ok but had a few short comings if two were in the bed hard to get out off. You could not fall out of it but the access to the bed was poor. But I must say the driving of the merc with the auto box was very good. The Italian electrics were poor as I had to change out the charger unit but was able to do this quite easily. When using it you only find out if it really suits you so after a year we went and bought a Sunlight T66 with two single beds with suits us far better. Also with it being quite a basic van the electrics are very simple. This is built on the the Ducato chassis which is brilliant on road holding ,but the engine with the comfortmatic gearbox I am not too sure on that yet, this bit is not a patch on the Merc. We did not get on to a good start with it as the gearbox stopped changing gear after 80 miles the man came out (RAC) from fiat assist and found three error codes on the gearbox he removed them and away it went. On arriving home Fiat local agent had it for a few days and all he found was trapped wire in the steering column, now done 5000 miles in it and it's been ok so far. So the point I am making is you really have to live in the van to find out if it's suitable for you. If I could have the Sunlight with the Ducato chassis and the Merc engine and auto box it would really tick all boxes so basically have to compromise on something. I did read somewhere that it takes you about 3 Motorhomes before you find the right one hopefully this is of help to you. Happy New year to all and all the best for 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Violet1956 - 2015-12-29 7:47 PM Two years...yep I think you are right Colin. I just need to be patient. I'm really keen on Laikas but there are so few in the second hand market. Wonder if the sellers are waiting 'til spring. Met a man with one of these. He had a rear end shunt and needed a new rear end panel which took over a year to obtain. Be careful of makes of forign vans that have very few UK dealers it could give problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Colin Leake - 2015-12-31 7:58 PM Violet1956 - 2015-12-29 7:47 PM Two years...yep I think you are right Colin. I just need to be patient. I'm really keen on Laikas but there are so few in the second hand market. Wonder if the sellers are waiting 'til spring. Met a man with one of these. He had a rear end shunt and needed a new rear end panel which took over a year to obtain. Be careful of makes of foreign vans that have very few UK dealers it could give problems. The difficulty of getting body panels for any van is well known - even for new and newish vans it can be a problem. My way of alleviating the problem is to reduce the risk of rear panel damage either from a shunt or reversing damage is to fit a heavy duty steel rear bumper - and always carry a roll of colour matched heavy duty duct tape so you can stick most of the broken bits together again if you need to - jus' like Humpty Dumpty!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Tracker - 2015-12-31 8:04 PM Colin Leake - 2015-12-31 7:58 PM Violet1956 - 2015-12-29 7:47 PM Two years...yep I think you are right Colin. I just need to be patient. I'm really keen on Laikas but there are so few in the second hand market. Wonder if the sellers are waiting 'til spring. Met a man with one of these. He had a rear end shunt and needed a new rear end panel which took over a year to obtain. Be careful of makes of foreign vans that have very few UK dealers it could give problems. The difficulty of getting body panels for any van is well known - even for new and newish vans it can be a problem. My way of alleviating the problem is to reduce the risk of rear panel damage either from a shunt or reversing damage is to fit a heavy duty steel rear bumper - and always carry a roll of colour matched heavy duty duct tape so you can stick most of the broken bits together again if you need to - jus' like Humpty Dumpty!! Or get a towbar fitted and pull on an A-Frame! :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall_Mike Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Hi, I have been reading (lurking) around here for some time, - Learning interesting and useful stuff from knowledgeable people here. Our situation is that we pick up our Motorhome next weekend - I can admit to being a little nervous, it's one heck of an investment but a move my wife and I want to make. We have gone for a Sun Living van which is a essentially an Adria on a budget, it is a demo vehicle taken to shows etc but not slept in yet by anyone. - We are purchasing from the Webb,s dealership which seem to get mostly good reviews, some very good on here, - although a couple of negatives as well. During the process my wife was lucky enough to receive a legacy which expanded our view by a considerable amount, we were determined not to get a loan against a depreciating asset, whatever we finished up with. It has taken us between 18 months and 2 years to reach a point where we have put money down, - We have some specific requirements, - my wife is disabled and has a restricted licence so we must have an Auto, and limited to 3500kg - although for myself I am lucky to be able to go to 7500kg if needed by having Grandfather rights on my licence. The beds are important, - We didn't want a double where one of us would have to struggle past the other, I am 6' 7" - Her condition is that she needs space and sometimes doesn't sleep too well and she has a disabled scooter which needs to go in somewhere, - size and weight to account for. I started by looking at a Mazda Bongo, - far too small in hindsight but affordable, Montague 321 are based not far away, and will build to order based on several designs, we then went to most of the dealers in our area, scared of buying privately, several tales of would be purchasers being ripped off - plus I wouldn't wish to be sold a pup, Looked at many vans but so few are automatic. We looked at one weird Rhd Drive Pilote Van with no drivers door. All the vans are a compromise based on limited space, there are some great designs out there, beds coming down from the roof, island beds, bunk beds etc, we saw some really nice things, however what sold us was the big garage with no step, - 150kg load limit, - Scooter weighs under 100kg, the double bed with a removable middle cushion running down the van and not transverse, price, Fiat comfortmatic gearbox, size as in driverbility (although it's mid range) is a bit concerning, door mirrors stick out like bloodhounds ears and cost a small fortune if broken. We will see if our choice was a wise one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggy Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 To answer your question - to find the perfect motor home would take forever. There was some research a few years ago into Supermarket buying habits, and it showed that offering more choice can actually be a bad thing as it slows down the decision making process, to the point that with a huge range of choice information overload sets in and you don't buy anything. The best van we ever bought was a Toyota Hiace high top we bought in Darwin. The choice was easy as it was the only camper for sale in Darwin at that time and the next nearest choice was 1,450 miles away. It was well run in, with over 600,000km on the clock, but it lasted us for a year driving round Aus and we put another 66,000km on her before selling her on at a total cost of around 1,000 dollars. She didn't have a toilet, the beds were so short you had to have your feet outside the van to sleep, the drinking water heated up to bioling point as the tank was in the side panels, she was 2 wheel drive in a country with dirt roads, and the side door roared like a lion to announce that at 3 o'clock in the morning I needed a wee. But we loved her and had a superb time in her. So, just buy something, so go out and have some fun, and stop worrying about the minutiae. This advice from someone who has just spend two years agonising over which van to buy for the UK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 The best of luck with your new van. However, are you sure a 150kg load limit is sufficient when you take into account a mobility scooter, driver and passenger, fuel, water, gas bottles etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 Thanks Brian for your helpful tips particularly the one about mileage. Dealers and other advertisers seem to like to advertise low milers as somehow special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Mike88 - 2016-01-02 9:59 AM The best of luck with your new van. However, are you sure a 150kg load limit is sufficient when He said that the garage had a load limit of 150kgs] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall_Mike Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Firstly thanks. Think we will be Ok on weight, in total we have about 450 kg to play with, the garage itself has a 150 kg limit but the scooter weighs around 80 kg, there is of course ourselves, we have a small dog less than 10kg and are making sure that everything else is as lite as possible, we know to carry only a small amount of water and go for a fill up when we arrive .. I will hit a weigh bridge at some point in travelling mode and see where we are. These vans cannot be up plated so we have what we have. The vehicle has a 90 ltr diesel tank, quite happy to run on about 1/2 full with more frequent fills when needed. As to our search, we visited 3 dealers, one in Taplow, one in Christchurch, plus Webbs were we are almost resident. 2 friends have motorhome,s already and we spent a long while boring the pants of un afflicted souls discussing everything, one a massive Rv, one a Vivaro conversion., another friend has a an old and battered home, more often abused by lack of use than anything else, always has a flat battery. In Webb,s favour they have so many vans probably 50 to 60 all to look at and the stock changes often, very few auto,s though, from new to quite ancient so we feel we have seen most of the designs and major makes. We haven't got a killer deal but we have got support, place to park it for a few months, a few nice things thrown in etc plus dealer support and some confidence that if it does go pear shaped they will help out ... To an extent anyway. also being a demonstrator some of the initial depreciation has been removed. We joined the Camping club and got every magazine we could read on the subject, found the VW most interesting, too many reviews are clearly sponsored, they never seem to tell what,s bad about the vans, what broke, what was too short, was it cold, what leaked, etc... Wish they would be honest. Anyway sorry about the length of this post, I have quite enjoyed the process, am not exhausted, beyond a sleepless night or 2 when looking at the cost it,s been fun and I have learned a lot about what will hopefully become a hobby, if it doesn't work, in a couple of years we will sell up, nothing is forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 As long as you are happy with with the van you have bought. that's what counts. Welcome to the forum. Enjoy your van, and keep joining in the discussions/questions. We have a british van/swift, all the things that some posters "would not touch with a barge pole" It has suited us well for 10 years, and hopefully for some more years , if age will allow (Ours not the Van) PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawki Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Violet1956 - 2015-12-29 6:53 PM I am beginning to despair about finding a MH for us. Perhaps I have been reading too many posts about problems. The entries on the forum about Swift/UK manufactured vehicles terrify me. Then there's the posts about problems with reverse gear on Ducatos in the mid 2000s which is where our budget (£20-25K) would dictate we look. Dodgy dealers, worthless warranties and ridiculous dealer prices have put me off the whole idea that a MH is for us. Don't really want to go back to towing a caravan but may be it is the most sensible option. If there are so many pitfalls why does anyone buy a MH? Can somebody out there tell me that they have owned and enjoyed a MH without incurring ridiculous expense and how they managed not to pay over the top for it in the first place? :-( Getting back to the original poster I hunted for about 18 months for our first motorhome and was getting a bit bogged down Then the exact Auto trail model we was ideally looking for came on Auto trader it was only 60 miles away a private sale which we preferred, and one of the very last Auto trails on a Merc base loved it and bought it that was 5 years ago and it has been a great purchase to date The van you want is out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 Thanks for your words of support Dawki. I think we may have found our almost "perfect" van. Will be looking at it tomorrow after an intial recce by my OH and son. I realise we just have to take the plunge and go for what we have checked out is kosher from a reputable dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Hallelujah!!! Tell us what is then Violet and maybe someone who has or has had one will be able to give you a few pointers to check when you see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will H Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 ................... "All that glitters is not gold"........................... The Merchant of Venice (Act II, Scene vii) Shakespeare Quote - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Will H - 2016-01-05 7:18 PM ................... "All that glitters is not gold"........................... The Merchant of Venice (Act II, Scene vii) Shakespeare Quote - All that glisters is not gold; Often have you heard that told: Many a man his life hath sold But my outside to behold: Gilded tombs do worms enfold. Had you been as wise as bold, Young in limbs, in judgement old Your answer had not been inscroll'd Fare you well, your suit is cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 May I refer the honourable Violet1956 to a previous answer regarding The Holy Grail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 Morning Tracker et al It is a Rapido( 2006 746F). A bit over budget at almost £27K but the layout is almost exactly what we want. Just have to come to terms with parting with the cash. OH has looked at it and likes a lot. Dealer says it is suitable for winter trips (double floor? onboard fresh and waste water tanks? or heated will have to check). Mileage is a bit low for its age I know at 29K. There will be the additional cost of adding a decent towbar at some future date. Need to check the payload and the docs for service record etc. Not sure if has a timing chain or belt that needs to be checked for any replacement. I have reached the conclusion that it is a big plus to have the dealer on the doorstep in case there are any problems. Whilst we have searched a bit wider there was always the concern about what practical recourse there would be in the event of any faults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Is it perchance this one Violet? http://motorhomes.autotrader.co.uk/used-motorhomes/rapido/746/2006-rapido-746-rapido-746f-diesel-taplow-mfpa-2c929b9c5181dbbe015187564394004d/makemodel/make/rapido/model/746 If it is, it looks like a nice van. Good solid build quality and as one of the last of the old cab pretty well sorted and as reliable as any 10 year old van can be, and with cab air con ideal for trips to the sunshine. Maybe they will throw in a cruise control which most of us find very useful and a reversing camera which most of us also really like! And whilst you are asking see if you can get a tow bar included - don't ask don't get!! I presume that you have gas bottle(s) or that too is worth asking for along with the pigtail. As the leisure battery is one of the most troublesome items on a motorhome these days ask them for a brand new one - it's always worth a go! This is particularly true where a solar panel is keeping the battery topped up as that can sometimes help to disguise a duff battery. Whilst you are looking try the bed for size and pretend using the loo and washing at the sink as it looks a bit tight in there? If their warranty is insurance backed it might be a struggle to get things fixed as they tend to have more holes than a collander! Better in my view to have their own warranty where they fix things. These are generally shorter but in my experience work better. I seem to recall that some 2.8s had front wheel bearing problems (I think mainly those with 16" wheels?) and sometimes an issue with 5th gear so just as well to get those checked, that apart it should be a good sound van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 It is a 3 berth, BUT does it have 3 seat belts? i don't think you should carry passengers in side facing seats! PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Good advice from Tracker - as always. I think the 5th gear problem was sorted about 2002 on the 2.8 engine. The cambelt will be a belt on that engine, so best to find out when it was last changed - every 5 years is recommended. I had to replace front wheel bearings on my 2002 Fiat 2.8 and that had 15" wheels. There again, improvements may have been made on subsequent newer vehicles. If it has 15" wheels, bear in mind this will limit the maximum weight to about 3700Kg, should you wish to upgrade in the future. This assumes it is rated at 3500Kg at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 If that is the one it is on the face-lifted Ducato base on which, AFAIK, the modified gearbox was fitted. Since the ad gives the impression that it is on the standard Fiat chassis, I doubt it will be plated at 3,500kg and suspect it will be 3,400kg, possibly with rear suspension enhancement. They were a bit prone to front wheel bearing failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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