Exhausted. How long does it take to find a perfect M/H

[Violet1956]

It is exactly that one Tracker and it is in very good condition. OH was in a hurry to get there this am and so before I had time to read any of the posts we went and put down a deposit on it. Managed to check for most things mentioned by my valued forum advisers. Didn't check for cruise though or the size of the wheels so I am not sure whther there are any potential problems with the wheel bearings doh! I am so used to cruise being pretty standard on our cars that I overlooked it. It is a pre x250 engine so trust we have escaped the judder in reversing issue. It has a reversing camera which they failed to mention in the ad. It has a funny dome shaped satellite thingy on the top but they say they can't be sure it will work because of changes to satellites since it was installed. Cambelt will be changed before we pick it up, service etc. Two gas bottles chocks will be included. Six months warranty- they have their own workshop. Straightforward dealers, very helpful, no hard sell. They get their own towbars fitted by someone in Poole. We are leaving that off for the moment as we want to see how we get on with the van.

A big thank you to everyone who has helped me. As complete newbies I am sure there are more things to think about once we have taken delivery. Need to kit the thing out...next stop ebay.

[Brock]

Violet, I'm really pleased for you. Hope the handover goes well and you drive off into your new life of adventure.

[AndyB]

Congratulations on your new motorhome.

 

I'm on my 3rd new motorhome from southern motorhome centre, take that as a measure of my confidence with Mike, Sam and everybody else there.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Derek Uzzell]

A French-language ‘technical data’ document relating to 2006 Rapido motorhomes can be downloaded from here

 

http://www.rapido-camping-car.fr/pdf/fr/Rapido-GT-2006.pdf

 

It would seem from this that the 746F model had the 2800cc motor as standard, and a 3400kg chassis with no factory-option upgrade.

[Violet1956]

Thanks Andy that is reassuring. We had a sneaky look at the new vans they have for the people who have the lump sums from their pensions already. Gobsmakingly beautiful some of them.

[Violet1956]

Should I be worried that I can't have it replated? Asked the dealer about the payload and it was somewhere around to 400kg mark.

[Violet1956]

Cheers Brock. We are really looking forward to it. :->

[Tracker]

From Derek's French connection it looks like a payload of 420kg which is not overly generous but for two people should be workable.

 

There may well be non standard weighty extras that reduce that payload like the sat dome, possible second battery, possibly an awning, certainly adding a heavy towbar.

[Robbo]

Violet1956 - 2016-01-06 4:17 PM

 

Should I be worried that I can't have it replated? Asked the dealer about the payload and it was somewhere around to 400kg mark.

 

If it's currently plated at 3400Kg you should be able to have it replated up to 3700Kg by adding air-assisted suspension to the rear axle.

 

My previous van was 3400Kg with 15" wheels and after consulting SVTech I was advised the Max uprate was to 3700Kg.

 

If you wish to carry a scooter on the back, I doubt whether 3700Kg would be sufficient, although the rear overhang is quite short compared to most vans these days and the wheelbase is quite long (which is a good thing).

[Tracker]

Robbo - 2016-01-06 4:55 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2016-01-06 4:17 PM

 

Should I be worried that I can't have it replated? Asked the dealer about the payload and it was somewhere around to 400kg mark.

 

If it's currently plated at 3400Kg you should be able to have it replated up to 3700Kg by adding air-assisted suspension to the rear axle.

 

My previous van was 3400Kg with 15" wheels and after consulting SVTech I was advised the Max uprate was to 3700Kg.

 

If you wish to carry a scooter on the back, I doubt whether 3700Kg would be sufficient, although the rear overhang is quite short compared to most vans these days and the wheelbase is quite long (which is a good thing).

 

You might have to replace the tyres with a larger size to achieve the theoretical carrying capacity as well - SV tech are very helpful and will advise you.

 

First things first - if it were mine I would fully load it with everything, including gas, water, diesel, people and take it fully laden to to a weighbridge to get the axles weights checked as not only will you need to know this so will SVTech.

 

I bought our Dunlop air suspension kit from Marcle Leisure and fitted it myself which is easy for any fairly competent auto diyer. One tip - compress the rubber air springs and tie them down with string before trying to insert between spring and chassis and it is a heck of a lot easier to get 'em to go in!

[dawki]

Very well done it look like a real nice van and you must be very pleased with yourself

very best off luck with your future adventures in it

[Brian Kirby]

Tracker - 2016-01-06 5:06 PM.........................First things first - if it were mine I would fully load it with everything, including gas, water, diesel, people and take it fully laden to to a weighbridge to get the axles weights checked as not only will you need to know this so will SVTech.................

Agreed, but before that I would take it to a weighbridge empty except for jack, essential tools, spare wheel if any, and a tank full (meaning brimmed) of diesel, and weigh it minus driver and passenger, getting the axle loads at that stage as well. Then, when you weigh it fully laden, you will know how much you have added, and how the added weight has distributed. You will also know what your "gross" payload is. Rapidos of that generation are not especially "light".

 

Nice little vans: well built, well finished, and well specified. Really only a two berth, due to the side facing seats not being safe for travel. Expect about 35MPG.

 

What would you tow? Towing limit, according to the Rapido catalogue Derek found, is 1 tonne with max 75kg noseweight. You will struggle to get a car and trailer out of 1 tonne. If considering a baggage trailer, possibly displacing some of the load to that would eliminate the need to re-plate. If just trailing a bike, get a 1 tonne box trailer and use its surplus load allowance for what won't go into the van. But, as said above, the weight of the towbar will further reduce available payload, as will that noseweight.

 

It will already be a bit light on payload as it has sat dome, oven and awning, but best to try it out. If you select lightweight versions of anything you add you should get away with it. I would expect that you will find travelling with the 120litre fresh water tank full is out of the question. The gas locker should take 2 x 13kg cylinders, but the payload will almost certainly have been calculated with just one fitted. So, some juggling, and despite that possibly the necessity to get it plated up. Once you have those fully laden axle loads you will know the extent of you problem, if any, and where it lies.

 

You will find the turning circle is quite large. The long wheelbase is an advantage in terms of ride, but the increased turning circle is its downside.

[Tracker]

Brian Kirby - 2016-01-06 6:52 PM

Expect about 35MPG.

 

You'll be lucky!

 

Unless in the Fens at 35 mph with a tailwind!

[PJay]

Hi Violet

Looks a lovely van, great for two people. We have the same year fiat but only have the 2,3 eng, so you will have plenty of pulling power. We changed our Cam belt at about 30k miles, just as a precaution, so good to get that changed. This model fiat was the better engined , before the "Judder" Had no probs with ours in 10 years and always get it serviced at a Fiat garage every year Love the fridge/freezer. One thing check the HEIGHT , as the dome may take you over the 3 mtr H. Ours is , but we have over cab bed as well.

PJay

[George Collings]

IMO traffic density in the UK means you spend a lot of time fiddling with cruise control and its possibly a distraction.

 

On the other hand on a recent car visit to France mainly on dual carriageways it was a boon allowing full attention to be paid to the road ahead and behind.rather than the speedo.

 

Having had a minor incident in the 'van with a driver with an possibly fetish about my back axle and unfortunately out of sight of my mirrors when I stopped to give way and instantly reverse for oncoming traffic I bit the bullet and fitted a double camera rear camera.

 

It will soon pay for itself the first time you avoid a migrating tree or low wall.

[Violet1956]

Thanks Brian. I must admit I am unable to follow some of the techy aspects of your advice so forgive me. Our plan is maybe to add a tow bar just to fit one of the easy lifter hydratrails with two wheels so as to attach a scooter or light motor bike. Not planning to tow a car or a large trailer. Need I be worried?

[Violet1956]

He he. The migrating tree takes me back to a time when we were camping in Yosemite in a monster of a van with slide outs just a little short of the length of a greyhound bus. I was directing the OH reversing into a space looking only at the rear corner of the van. Yes you've guessed - the tree we were parking next to was not quite true on the perpendicular....I was relieved of my duties as parking assistant pretty swiftly after that. The Rapido is far less of a challenge thank the Lord.

[Violet1956]

Thanks for the warning and the encouragement PJay. I think the dome will have to come off. Looks spookily like something from the opening credits of The Prisoner :-(

[Mike B.]

Looks a lovely van Violet and it is same base as ours-last of the 2005s registered early 2006 I would think-ours was. The wheel bearing did go on ours-Nearside only surprisingly and it's not the end of the world-my local mechanic changed it for me no problem.-Best to have both done though, if 1 goes the other will probably follow!

Good luck with it and hope you have loads of happy holidays in it

Mike

[PJay]

Violet1956 - 2016-01-06 10:05 PM

 

Thanks for the warning and the encouragement PJay. I think the dome will have to come off. Looks spookily like something from the opening credits of The Prisoner :-(

 

We use our dome in Spain no problem. You can get news programs and as we like F! motor

racing can watch that in german. If you take the dome of, you will have holes in roof, so beware!

 

Happy camping

[Brian Kirby]

Tracker - 2016-01-06 7:01 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2016-01-06 6:52 PM

Expect about 35MPG.

 

You'll be lucky!

 

Unless in the Fens at 35 mph with a tailwind!

Thanks Rich, well spotted and humble apologies to all for the typo. Should have read 25MPG. :$

[Brian Kirby]

Violet1956 - 2016-01-06 9:43 PM

 

Thanks Brian. I must admit I am unable to follow some of the techy aspects of your advice so forgive me. Our plan is maybe to add a tow bar just to fit one of the easy lifter hydratrails with two wheels so as to attach a scooter or light motor bike. Not planning to tow a car or a large trailer. Need I be worried?

From the Rapido catalogue Derek found, the max permissible weight of trailer is 1 tonne and the max weight that may be applied vertically to the towbar is 75kg. It seems (but I don't know), that the Hydratrail wouldn't exceed those limits. However, the van itself has a quite lean payload and, depending on where you intend going in it, and for how long, I'm guessing that you will run out of payload before you have on board everything you want to carry.

 

You then have two choices. 1 Get the van re-plated to accommodate the extra load. This exercise will have limits as to what can be achieved, and you may be wise to check those out now, before you decide which way to jump. You will need the details of the vehicle to do this, especially year and chassis No (VIN). If you then speak to SV Tech, as has been suggested, they should be able to outline for you what can be achieved, what may need to be added (rear suspension enhancement, for example) and what may need to be changed (possibly the tyres) plus give an idea of the rough cost, to get you where you need to be. 2 Get a 1 tonne box trailer into which you can put bike/scooter plus the things you can't get into the van, in which case you shouldn't need the van re-plating.

 

The problem with all of this is that you don't now know, and can't find out, whether you have a problem with load until you have the van, load it, and get it to a weighbridge. I'd guess that the van won't load too tail heavy and will end up with the total weight roughly 50/50 front to rear.

 

We had a 2005 Burstner T585. Same base, same broad layout, same MAM. The maximum permissible axle loads were 1,750kg front and 1,900kg rear. It ran 52% front and 48% rear fully laden, with an actual laden weight of 3,360kg (40kg spare). The Burstner's MIRO was 2,790kg and, with two full 15kg gas cylinders and a full fresh water tank, we had a usable payload of 424kg.

 

I still have my loading spreadsheet for the T585. Your Rapido had a published MIRO of 2,980kg for the same MAM, so starts off 190kg heavier. Applying your Rapido's MIRO to our Burstner loading figures in my spreadsheet (and assuming the same distribution of load between front and rear), results in a front axle load of 1,770kg (20kg overloaded), a rear axle load of 1,690kg (214kg spare) and an actual laden weight of 3,547kg (147kg overloaded).

 

On that highly theoretical basis it would seem you should not have a problem with the rear axle load, and should be able to re-trim the van to keep the front axle out of trouble, but would need to get the MAM increased to about 3,700kg. You would need to take advice as to whether doing that would result in the towing limit being reduced by the extra 300kg, but I would expect that it would, to leave a max trailer weight of 700kg.

 

I appreciate that it may seem a bit technically complicated, but this is unavoidable when you begin to make changes to engineered products. Your actual figures will inevitably be different, and you may carry less than we did, though I don't think we carried a surplus. We travelled for about 10 - 12 weeks at a stretch, spring and autumn. We carried clothing to reflect changing seasons and latitudes, and did not take much in the way of food or liquids with us, shopping as we travelled.

 

I don't know if this will help make things clearer, but hopefully it will give an indication why I'm urging a bit of caution with assumptions. I'm now pretty sure you'll need to re-plate it, but equally sure you'll need to find out how much extra load allowance you'll really need before embarking on that exercise. The good news is that it seems you may not incur the expense of up-rating either axle, which should also eliminate the need to change the tyres.

 

Link to our data for Burstner here: http://tinyurl.com/haasfto

[Violet1956]

Hi Brian

 

Thank you for your explanation. To the weighbridge we shall go!

 

You used the words" usable payload" for your Burstner. I was told the payload on the Rapido was 420kgs and assumed that meant I could load up 420 kgs of gear. I obviously lack a basic understanding of some of the terminology and how loading capacity is calculated. I think I need to do some more research. As a mere simpleton I am somewhat troubled by the prospect that a van can be manufactured in such a way that it is possible that you can't load it with, gas, diesel and water and all the essentials of life on the road without it being overloaded. Me and the OH may have to go on a diet (no bad thing- together we must weigh about 170KG)s. I also think now is the time for him to stop insisting on taking all his favourite jumpers on holiday. *-)

[Brian Kirby]

Violet1956 - 2016-01-07 8:47 PM.......................As a mere simpleton I am somewhat troubled by the prospect that a van can be manufactured in such a way that it is possible that you can't load it with, gas, diesel and water and all the essentials of life on the road without it being overloaded. ..................

Don't worry on that score. :-) We all learn as we go. Some have even finer payloads than yours. They will suit some users perfectly well, for example those who use their vans frequently for relatively short trips. It is all about horses for courses.

 

Our intention was always to use ours for longer trips, both in terms of distance travelled and time. If one travels from UK to Spain, Italy, or Greece, and one goes in spring or autumn for 8 - 11 or 12 weeks at a time, one has to cater for cold (especially if stopping at altitude) and heat, wet and dry, so the amount of spare footwear and outerwear to cater for both extremes at differing latitudes adds considerably to the overall load. A weekender, OTOH, will probably know in advance what weather to expect, dress accordingly, and carry little spare clothing.

 

The French, on the whole, don't travel that much outside France. That is to say, one doesn't see many French registered cars or vans outside France, at least when compared to the numbers of Dutch, Brits, or Germans travelling abroad. So, French vans tend, like UK made vans, to reflect what their home market wants, and the smaller vans do not generally have payloads for longer trips. This was exacerbated until very recently by the fact that very few French citizens (apart from Truck and PSV drivers) had licences for vehicles over 3.5 tonnes (no "grandfather rights"). So, they had little choice but to grin and bear their relatively low payloads. I think your van just reflects that quirk of French life.

[Derek Uzzell]

Violet

 

Continental European-built RHD motorhomes marketed in the UK often have a higher basic specification than when marketed abroad (e. a fairly weighty gas-stove is commonly fitted to UK models). Consequently, there’s a tendency for the UK-marketed version to be heavier than the weight shown in the motorhome manufacturer’s ‘foreign’ brochure for the equivalent model. But let’s assume that the information in the French-language Rapido document I provided a link to earlier appies to UK-specification vehicles.

 

The maximum authorised overall weight shown in the document for a Rapido 746 is 3400kg and the ‘empty-weight’ is given as 2980kg plus or minus 5%. In principle then the empty-weight could vary from 2831 (2980kg - 5%) to 3129kg (2980kg + 5%). So the ‘user payload’ COULD vary from 271kg to 569kg as far as the information in Rapido’s document is concerned.

 

The document defines the ‘empty-weight’ as the weight of the motorhome (in running order) and includes allowances for a driver (75kg), gas-bottle(s), and the vehicle’s fuel and freshwater tanks being filled to 90% of their capacity. (A tolerance of +/-5% is also specified though it’s not exactly clear what this applies to). There’s a warning that it’s the motorhome user’s responsiblity to ensure that the weight of passengers and ‘extras’ (accessories, baggage, food, etc) carried does not result in the vehicle’s maximum authorised overall weight being exceeded. Looking at the advert for your motorhome, it’s apparent that it has a sat-dome, an oven and an awning, and all of these will be ‘extras’ to the weight-data in the Rapido document.

 

Your plan to have the motorhome weighed makes excellent sense, and there’s a good chance you’ll find that your husband will still be able to take all his jumpers with him without your Rapido becoming overloaded at 3400kg. But (as has already been warned) if you want to tow legally with the motorhome (and continue to take all the clobber!) you may well need to uprate.