Schaudt AGM auxilary battery charger now available

[Brian Kirby]

Thank you Allan, for taking the time to reply. I assume the problem will show as in the usual way for a life expired battery? That is to say it won't sustain load over time, and can be tested by applying a known load for a measured duration, and checking the voltage drop at regular intervals? About 12.8V rested for full charge, and about 12.3V for approx half capacity?

 

I'm puzzled as to why the wrong charging voltage causes such a problem though. I would have thought it would just take longer to reach full charge, or possibly never quite get there, but not that this would cause its life to be shortened, let alone shortened so dramatically. Anyone know why this happens?

[aandncaravan]

Hello Brian, What you describe for determining battery viability is a guide only and won't always apply. How a battery fails will depend on the battery, how it is used, etc. Some just die very quickly. Some seem ok when they are expired and vice versa.

We have one in the workshop that shows 12.7v but as soon as you apply a 5amp load it drops to under 10v in less than 4 minutes.

 

Leave it to recover for 30 mins and the voltage returns to 12.7v. Little green 'Battery perfect' light is permanently lit.

 

We have another very old Bosch battery which we use to start the Citroen vans after having a rebuilt engine fitted. It takes about 60 seconds to get the petrol up from the tank and fill the carb, so we don't use a customers battery because of the strain it imposes.

 

We started using this old Bosch battery about 18 months ago knowing it was already close to end of life so it wouldn't matter if we took it over the edge. No matter how long you charge it for, it will always settle back to 12.4v and sit at that for weeks. When called on it will crank the Citroen van starter non stop for about a minute without any loss of Starter Motor speed or seeming to deteriorate any further.

We now deliberately 'mistreat' it, just to see how far it will go.

 

After each rebuilt engine start-up it goes back on charge overnight and sits for 3 weeks before Starting the next rebuilt engine.

 

Nobody I have spoken to can explain what is going on inside either battery.

 

So the answer to your question is depends.

 

As to why the Banner AGM batteries expire before time, I can't answer. But if a battery is not fully charged it starts to deteriorate, Sulphation does the most damage.

Hence all the advice continually repeating the need to keep a battery fully charged. If a battery is left for 24 + months at partial charge most battery experts would expect it to die.

Bear in mind as well that once a battery starts to deteriorate it becomes harder to charge. On a battery that is struggling to get fully charged, it may cause it to deteriorate faster so accelerates the decline

 

We suspect the Banner AGM's are just not getting up to 100% for hardly any of their life. This is backed up by user experience. One disappointed Greek AGM battery owner wrote to us,

"In 2012 I installed TWO AGM 100Ah, with Schaudt EBL99. Now they are dying. Led lights & solar cell 100W with LR1218 Solar Regulator. It was practically impossible to fully charge the batteries when moving around and/or with Solar Power, they would take too long to charge fully. They were charged pretty much full when on EHU for (after?) 1-2 months".

 

 

Remember that the average Motorhome Alternator will be charging at too low a bulk charge and then too high a 'trickle' charge voltage. That can't be ideal, especially when an AGM battery is much more finicky about the charge it gets than a quality Wet battery which will better tolerate voltages from 13v to 16.5v.

So this isn't just about the mains charger, again as born out by the user experience above when he writes, "It was practically impossible to fully charge the batteries when moving around and/or with Solar Power".

 

I can't tell you why the fail early, just telling you we see lots of prematurely failed Banner AGM batteries. The Forums in both the UK and Germany are starting to mirror this.

 

If they delivered a lot more for the high extra cost they would be worth it, but most people seem to find that, in a Motorhome environment, they don't perform as well as even a budget Wet battery.

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Thank you again Allan, for taking the time.

[aandncaravan]

Stuart, Our guarantees are the same length as the factory.

Our Factory rebuilt Elektroblock units do have a Schaudt Worldwide factory guarantee as well as our own Worldwide guarantee. We have repaired units from Japan, Norway, France, Holland, Belgium, Germany, New Zealand, Australia, Sweden, etc so the guarantee is not just UK based.

 

 

May I suggest you take a look at the bottom of our websites Schaudt Elektroblock page, before you universally advocate units being modified? See : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/schaudt-elektroblock.php

Our response to units being modified was not aimed, as you seemed to think, at just one company, but all modifications that take a box outside warranty.

 

 

[StuartO]

aandncaravan - 2016-03-01 12:16 PMStuart, Our guarantees are the same length as the factory. Our Factory rebuilt Elektroblock units do have a Schaudt Worldwide factory guarantee as well as our own Worldwide guarantee......

 

OK, so you will ship new or reconditioned Schaudt units anywhere in the world. 

 

And when you resale a factory-reconditioned unit (i.e. reconditioned by Schaudt in their factory rather than your little workshop?) it has a Schaudt guarantee, is that what your careful wording means?

 

And you guarantee your own work too, in the same way for the same period of time, so when you sell units which you have repaired or reconditioned yourselves, any Schaudt dealer anywhere in the world will honour your guarantee of that work by undertaking free repairs as necessary?  That doesn't  seem very credible somehow. 

 

But if customers abroad send their duff units back to you, you will repair them free of charge within the Schaudt or your own guarantee period - so does this means completely free return shipping worldwide too, or do you expect the customer to pay for that?

 

And both yours and the Schaudt guarantee is for an unstated period, but less than the two years for which Applejack guarantees everything they supply, that is correct, isn't it?

 

Still not sure you are helping yourself here Alan,  why not let it drop?

 

 

 

[aandncaravan]

I take it you didn't look on the website at a typical modified unit then?

 

As far as I know there are not any 'Schaudt Dealers'? We are an independent company that distributes units from different manufacturers around the World. Not tied to any manufacturer in any way.

So I don't understand why you might expect the Schaudt factory in Germany to guarantee work done in a little workshop in Wales? Suggests you don't know much about us at all?

 

Out of interest Mr and Mrs Tomlinson brought their Motorhome in today for a replacement Schaudt remanufactured EBL 99, fitted in May 2015, that had become faulty. And yes, it was removed and fitted free. We fitted the box back and May and made good this time.

I can supply their details for you to verify this if you require?

It was done totally free of charge and the box will be returned to Schaudt for examination as they did the rebuild on the EBL99.

 

 

You are focusing solely on a single company that modifies these units, we were highlighting the issues, from literally hundreds of sources around Europe. It is a real problem for those people who buy a Motorhome only find what has been done to the charger/Power unit.

It then costs them hundreds to put right.

 

Take a look at the unit on the webpage and tell me you would be happy to find one in a Motorhome you maybe purchased as many do?

 

 

 

[StuartO]

This is an increasingly silly spat Alan and as I have said twice now, I don't think you are helping yourself by keeping it going.

 

I'm not particularly an advocate of Applejack Engineering (I'd never heard of them before) and I simply took objection to the way you chipped in about warranties to give the impression that they weren't in your league in some way, which I thought came across as arrogant bulls**t.  So I picked holes in what you were saying and since then I've picked holes in the increasingly ridiculous positions you have been adopting instead of letting this drop.

 

I did look at the example of someone modifying an EBL on your website.  Maybe this modification wasn't well thought out - or maybe someone was making best use of what was available just to get the unit going again.  But it does not follow from this example, as you seem to want to have it, that all modifications and adaptations to Schaudt equipment are therefore automatically bad.

 

You have useful knowledge and experience Alan, but you also seem to have important blind spots and you take up absolutist positions unjustifiably.  I am afraid you are showing me that I need to take what you say with a pinch of salt.

 

 

 

[747]

StuartO - 2016-03-02 8:59 AMThis is an increasingly silly spat Alan and as I have said twice now, I don't think you are helping yourself by keeping it going.

 

I'm not particularly an advocate of Applejack Engineering (I'd never heard of them before) and I simply took objection to the way you chipped in about warranties to give the impression that they weren't in your league in some way, which I thought came across as arrogant bulls**t.  So I picked holes in what you were saying and since then I've picked holes in the increasingly ridiculous positions you have been adopting instead of letting this drop.

 

I did look at the example of someone modifying an EBL on your website.  Maybe this modification wasn't well thought out - or maybe someone was making best use of what was available just to get the unit going again.  But it does not follow from this example, as you seem to want to have it, that all modifications and adaptations to Schaudt equipment are therefore automatically bad.

 

You have useful knowledge and experience Alan, but you also seem to have important blind spots and you take up absolutist positions unjustifiably.  I am afraid you are showing me that I need to take what you say with a pinch of salt.

 

 

Have you ever thought about your own blind spots?There are experts in various fields willing to give help on technical matters on this forum. They are not doing it to get extra work for themselves. People like you get a bone between your teeth and will not let go, that is bound to put off any participants and future experts when they see a keyboard warrior like you gobbing off. Just give it a rest and shut up.

[StuartO]

You're right, I should have let this go and allowed Alan to have his last word a while ago.  Persisting with rational discussion doesn't always work, not least because some people can't follow it.