Brian Kirby Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 747 - 2016-01-29 10:59 AM colin - 2016-01-29 12:08 AM 747 - 2016-01-28 11:50 PM It does not matter if they ban vehicles because of its height, length, weight, or resemblance to a Duck. Its an illegal sign. What is illegal about the sign? The section referring to HGV's etc has two road signs on it. They have been made up by someone with a vivid imagination and are not legal. Nobody can just design a new sign to suit their own purposes. There are an approved list of signs for Official Bodies to use. If it aint on the list, it's illegal. It is on matters like this that thousands of motorists have been fined and then embarassed Official Bodies have had to repay the money raised by these illegal signs. The most recent case publicised was in York. http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Parking-at-Seaford-seafront-Sussex/40707/ As I said at the beginning of this thread, don't trust Council signage. I am not saying that they are evil, it's more like they are inept. The problem with that argument, I suspect, is that these are "stacked" signs, and each stands alone. So if one argues that the particular sign has no legal validity, the one at the bottom, clearly restricting use by vehicles exceeding 2.1 metres in height and 5.5 metres, would appear to be valid and would not, IMO, negate the sign to which 747 objects as being illegal. I would imagine ESCC would argue that the "illegal" sign is merely there for information, to capture in shorthand form the full range of restrictions in use of the parking area. I now have a copy of the The East Sussex County Council (Lewes District) (Off-Street Parking Places) Traffic Regulation Order 2013 (plus amendments) as referred to on the sign setting out the penalty charges. This covers a number of parking areas in addition to the Seaford Esplanade. A general prohibition is that vehicles exceeding 7.5 tonnes GVW, which are classed as HGVs, may not use any of these parking areas. The Esplanade car park is defined in Schedule 1 to the order as being an area extending east from Martello Road, past the Martello Tower, to the end of the Esplanade, which terminates as a cul de sac. This is illustrated on a plan appended to Amendment 1 to the order. The section of the order defining what may park states: "4. Each area of land specified in Schedule 1 of this Order may be used, subject to the provisions of this Order, as a parking place for the vehicle type, on the days and times, and on payment of any relevant charges or display of a valid disabled badge or permit, or both, as specified in the Schedule unless a valid waiver is displayed. 5. Motor vehicles using the parking places listed in Schedule 1 of this Order must not exceed 2.1 metres in height, 5.5 metres in length or 5 tonnes in weight. 6. Vehicles towing a trailer or caravan, or a disconnected trailer or caravan, are not permitted to use the parking places listed in Schedule 1 of this Order." It goes on to state: "Activities not permitted in a parking place 24. When a vehicle is in a parking place listed in Schedule 1 of this Order it will not be used for or in connection with: (a) the sale of any item to persons in or near the parking place; or (b) the selling or offering for hire of skills or services; or © any other business or professional purposes; or (d) sleeping, camping, cooking or eating purposes; or (e) servicing, repairing or washing other than that necessary to enable the vehicle to leave the parking place;" Whether 24 (d) is legally enforceable, would be for the courts to decide. However, since few motorhomes would be able to legally use the car park on grounds of their excess height and length, these further restrictions seem to me to be of little relevance for the great majority of motorhomers. Whether these restrictions are actually legal, or illegal, will have to wait until someone with deep pockets and a determination to find out chooses to park there to provoke a ticket. So, who's feeling lucky? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daven Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 24 (d) is it 24/7 |& for babys OAP`s is it for all or just the few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 daven - 2016-01-29 8:52 PM 24 (d) is it 24/7 |& for babys OAP`s is it for all or just the few Don't quite follow the question, but the duration that one can park is stated on the sign: Maximum stay 12 hours, no return within 2 hours. As to who can park, there are a few bays reserved for a car club, and a few designated for disabled users. Otherwise, the only restrictions are the banning of trailers of all kinds, articulated vehicles, and vehicles exceeding 2.1 metres hight or 5.5 metres length. Once parked, the activities in article 24 of the Order are prohibited. These are indicated by the sign that 747 believes may be legally invalid (legal or otherwise, some seem to me verge on the unreasonable, so liable to get short shrift from a court if legally challenged) Age of users is not an issue. Parking is free, but subject to the stated penalty charges for breaching the conditions. ESCC employs contractors to manage and enforce its parking restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will H Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Charles - 2016-01-24 9:30 PM Are there any times on the sign? 'overnight' is a bit vague. Times are variable summer and winter. Night is Night (i.e. darkness) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 French local authorities are forever imposing motorhome-related traffic/parking restrictions. When there is doubt about the legality of such restrictions, they get aggressively challenged by the FFCC http://www.ffcc.fr/ which I suppose is a bit like the Caravan Club but with very large teeth. However, although the FFCC has a good track-record of overturning restrictions, the organisation’s advice to camping-caristes is to always comply with restrictions while they remain in place. In the UK it seems that complaining on on-line forums about such things is expected to be effective... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Derek Uzzell - 2016-01-31 9:46 AM French local authorities are forever imposing motorhome-related traffic/parking restrictions. When there is doubt about the legality of such restrictions, they get aggressively challenged by the FFCC http://www.ffcc.fr/ which I suppose is a bit like the Caravan Club but with very large teeth. However, although the FFCC has a good track-record of overturning restrictions, the organisation’s advice to camping-caristes is to always comply with restrictions while they remain in place. In the UK it seems that complaining on on-line forums about such things is expected to be effective... And it could even be counter-productive if anyone from the council read some of the nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seannachie Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Derek Uzzell - 2016-01-31 9:46 AM French local authorities are forever imposing motorhome-related traffic/parking restrictions. When there is doubt about the legality of such restrictions, they get aggressively challenged by the FFCC http://www.ffcc.fr/ which I suppose is a bit like the Caravan Club but with very large teeth. However, although the FFCC has a good track-record of overturning restrictions, the organisation’s advice to camping-caristes is to always comply with restrictions while they remain in place. In the UK it seems that complaining on on-line forums about such things is expected to be effective... The FFCC are members of LE COMITÉ DE LIAISON DU CAMPING CAR (see here for its membership: http://www.accueil-camping-car.com/conseils-collectivites/fr/28/qui-sommes-nous-.html) and that committee has been instrumental in having the Administrative Courts in France declare that many bans or restrictions on motorhomes are illegal, as you can read on their 'Quelques rappels juridiques' page and the right side-bar on that page (see here: http://www.accueil-camping-car.com/conseils-collectivites/fr/20/quelques-rappels-juridiques.html). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Brian's "who's feeling lucky" did make me smile. I can see Clint Eastwood dressed as a car park attendant saying to a little chap in a camper " Go ahead punk, make my day". Aka Dirty Harry ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daven Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Another one ---- http://www.thisisthewestcountry.co.uk/news/somerset_news/14256251.Anger_over_motor_home_owners_who_dump_their__effluence__on_the_Burnham_Explanade/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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