ebikes and spain

[tonyg3nwl]

It has been reported on several occasions, that ebikes fitted with throttles that dont require pedalling are frowned upon by Spanish police.and some say have resulted in being fined.

 

I have Prorider ebikes, and yesterday investigated the possibility of disabling the throttle control to minimise the possibility of falling foul of spanish police, (or anywhere else that feel inclined ).

 

It very easy to disable the throttle, by opening up the control box near the crank, and traceing the cable from the throttle to the control module. Just as the cable enters the control module, the is a plug and socket connector. Un plug this connector and the throttle is disabled. From the tests that I have carried out in the workshop, the pedelec side of the system still functions..it is only the throttle function that is disabled

 

This is a very easy and quick thing to do, and is easily reversible when you return to uk.but I dont know if there are any reasons why it should not be done except that it will undoubtedly upset any warranty.

 

At your own risk if you do this..

 

tonyg3nwl.

 

 

 

 

[colin]

I've only half followed the story on this so can only offer guesses and assumptions.

Iirc the bike should meet some en number, so whilst the mod may make it compliant you might still run risk of fine without the correct stamp or paperwork.

[malc d]

tonyg3nwl - 2016-01-26 1:23 PM

 

 

This is a very easy and quick thing to do, and is easily reversible when you return to uk.................

 

.

 

tonyg3nwl.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Tony

 

It's also easy to reverse while you are still in Spain so I doubt if the Spanish police would fall for it.

 

 

;-)

[fesspark]

i DRILLED A HOLE IN BOTH OUR BIKE THROTTLES UNDERNEATH SO ITS NOT VISEABLE AND PUT A SELF TAP SCREW IN THE HOLE, THE GRIP DOESN,T TURN SO HOW CAN THAT BE ILLEGLE ? TAKEN THE BIKES TO SPAIN TWICE AND HEARD OF NO OTHER PEOPLE HAVING A PROBLEM

[laimeduck]

Your modifications while laudable will not I think be legal in Spain as the authorities require a "Certificate of Conformity" with the relevant CE certification to specify that there is no throttle.

I have put rubber handlebar tape grips over the throttles of our bikes so they are not visible, but they are still not Spanish "legal". 

However we have yet to visit Spain since we've had the bikes..........

[Charles]

From what I've seen the police in Spain have better things to do than prey on the motorist/cyclist like our zealots. If you're not doing anything to attract attention to yourself they'll leave you alone.

[Dave225]

This is like many of the things in our world, the vast majority of the time you will not be affected but on the 'bad' day it may be your bad luck.

 

Technically having e bikes in Spain that have a self propelled facility are classed as mopeds and therefore need a Conformity Certificate, a frame stamp and insurance. As mentioned many have used UK bikes in Spain without any problem at all, but there have been the odd instances where someone has received a heavy fine. Now maybe they caused attention in some other way, or tried to play funny b....s with the Guardia Civil, who knows and of course all stories are embellished with time. But it is to be noted that as of January 1st this year you cannot buy an e bike in the UK that has a self propelling throttle so will be fully compliant in Spain. It has been stated that you can use ones bought before this date as they are still legal in the UK, but you take your own chances in Spain.

 

Aagin, my suggestion and practice, is to try to be as inconspicous as possible and avoid attention. And if you are stopped be as polite as possible. Where I go in Spain each year is usually troublefree but last year one elderly couple were stopped in their car for a document check. They did not have their passports with them so the husband was made to walk back to the campsite (2 miles) to collect them and return (fortunately got a lift back) before the wife and car were 'released'. Now again, maybe they had upset the Guardia, I do not know but it was a long walk in hot sunshine. We all were rather careful after that, but it did not happen to anyone else. I sometimes wish the Uk would introduce ID cards as that would solve that particular problem. You can carry it in your wallet so is as safe as anything you are carrying.

[Sophie2]

We were stopped by Spanish Police last year whilst we were riding our ebikes but for inadvertently staying into a pedestrianised area.

 

They took great interest in our bikes, made a comment about "a great idea" and smiling, waved us on.

 

We have two lots of Spanish friends, from Valencia and Murcia areas, and neither have heard of any policy or legislation relating to this.

 

As a "belt and Braces" we obtained a Certificate of Conformity from our bike supplier. It has an EN number, but no reference to any specific requirement for design of the ebike to render "throttle only" incapable.

 

Rode many ebike kms last year, never asked to produce the C of C. Not even sure the Spanish Police, be they Municipal, National or Civil Guard, would know what they are looking for on such a document.

[Sophie2]

Dave225

 

Can you provide a link please to the legislations that prevents ebikes bring sold which has a throttle only capability?

 

I can see that under The Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles – EAPC – (Amendment) Regulations 2015 "twist and go" need to be Type Approved from 1/1/16- not that they can;t be sold. But that law came out in April 2015 so far as I can see

 

Also, definitive evidence of the illegalty of Twist and Go in Spain would be welcome

[Muswell]

http://www.e-biker.es/normativa.php

[Sophie2]

Thanks Muswell-and I've read it carefully. Much reference to EU Harmonisation and it seems produced following the 2009 attempts for EU agreement.

 

But I still can't see any reference to what we call "twist and go" or "throttle only" capability which would make it illegal in Spain.....or(even taking into account translation) that such a capability would make it a "moped"

 

I've seen similar UK leaflets produced for enthusiasts (eg Juicy Bikers") which, like the Spanish link, discusses in depth Safety Directives,

 

But.....evidence of what has been said in this thread re illegality of twist and go in Spain-sorry but I can't see it.

[Matrix Meanderer]

Still on the thread of Spanish police interest in English/UK cyclists conformity.

 

We have been cycling in Spain (promenades and town streets) now for over three weeks and can say that there also appears to be absolutely no police interest in the wearing of cycle helmets and hi vis tops.

 

About three quarters of the cyclists (locals and visitors) we have passed have been wearing neither and they have cycled past the local police with impunity.

 

Obviously wearing a helmet is up to the individual but it has been interesting to see the total lack of police interest this winter after high profile interest not so long ago.

 

Maybe their local budgets are OK now and they don't need the cash (lol)

[Sophie2]

Thanks MM.

 

In fact I 've never seen "high profile" interest by the Police and I'm sure that the point made earlier is correct-they have better things to do.

 

But nevertheless from a legal point of view I would still like to see "evidence" that some assertions made on here and other similar threads are based on Spanishj Law

 

( and I assume your reference to "cyclists" means ebikers as that's what we are discussing?)

[Muswell]

In the section bicicletas con pedaleo asistido it says that the motor must stop when the rider stops pedalling otherwise it becomes a ciclomotor and goes on to say it has to satisfy the same sort of conditions as motorbikes etc.

 

 

[Sophie2]

But that's very much open to interpretation. With my bike if I stop pedalling the bike will come to a stop if I'm in pedal assist mode. Fine so it(seems to) fulfill retirements.

 

But what if I'm on "throttle only" mode?

 

It doesn't seem to be covered, in which case it doesn't show it' s illegal.

 

 

[laimeduck]

Sophie/Terry

You really should check this out before querying facts - easily available on the search function on this site - from 2014 all 6 pages of

it - http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/E-bikes-In-Spain-Beware-/36515/

[thebishbus]

It seems legal if the battery power is only on when the pedals are turning forwards. So why not fit a rotation direction sensitive battery on off switch at the crank sensor . That would mean that the throttle would only work when the pedals were turning. That seems to meet the legal requirement .

Brian B.

 

[Sophie2]

Yes laimeduck-thank you for your link, though the patronising tone of the Post wasn't really necessary.

 

I am aware of the link, most of which refers to wearing of helmets, carrying of CofC's etrc.

My question however is still not addressed.

 

The link provided by RobinHood in 2014, within laimeduck's link

http://www.bike-eu.com/Laws-Regulations/Safety-standards/2010/8/EU-Regulations-for-e-Bikes-Part-1-Type-approval-legislation-and-CEN-standards--BIK004232W/

 

is for the most part addressed to manufacturers, suppliers etc and tells us that what "BikeEurope" call "ebikes" (as distinct from "pedelecs") require "Type Approval", certificates of Conformity etc etc

 

Yes-we know all that, but back to my question:

 

Can someone point me to the Spanish legislation (presumably they have seen it as they are quoting what is or isn't legal) that decrees that a use of ebikes which HAS THE CAPACITY to be used as "throttle only/twist and go" is illegal. (or in fact that it isd no longer classed as a bicycle)

 

By HAS A CAPACITY I also could include where "temporary" adjustments have been made to the cycle to remove that capacity, but where it could be resumed (as there are some saying that even adjustments to remove the capacity would have no affect on the illegality)

 

When we are in Spain, for 95% of the time we use "pedal assist" mode, but with a flick of the switch can use "throttle only". In either mode am I now riding a "Moped" with the attendant requirements? Even if I undertake the adjustments made on here, would I still be riding a Moped?

 

In answering can someone who has seen the LEGISLATION please point me in the direction.

 

Thanks

 

[hallii]

The UK had slightly different rules to the EU directive. The rest of EU adopted the EU Directive.

 

Throttles operating independently of the pedals, enabling a bike to be ridden on power only

are legal in the UK under the 1982 EAPC regulations. They are illegal under EU regulations

in mainland Europe.

Throttles operating under the dictates of pedelec control, only permitting regulation of power

while pedalling, are legal everywhere in Europe and the UK.

This is the relevant paragraph from the EU regulations and nowhere within the regulations

are throttles mentioned:

"(h) cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having

a maximum continuous rated power of 0,25 kW, of which the output is progressively reduced

and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 km/h, or sooner, if the cyclist stops

pedalling."

 

The EU Directive "Article 1 (h) of Directive 2002/24/EC" is the one you need, it is long and boring!

 

As I read it, throttle without pedalling is not allowed in mainland EU. It is allowed in the UK but new ebikes must comply with Directive 2002/24/EC.

 

In a nutshell, throttles are allowed but not without pedalling. ( Excluding the walking speed buttons etc)

 

A Google search will show that people have been fined in Spain for having electric mopeds, but I couldn't find any specific mention of a court case.

 

H

[Muswell]

Sophie2 - 2016-01-28 9:55 AM

 

 

In answering can someone who has seen the LEGISLATION please point me in the direction.

 

Thanks

 

Try this. Capitulo1 articulo1

 

http://www.minetur.gob.es/industria/GIAVEH/DirectivasMarco/Directiva2002_24.pdf

[Sophie2]

THank you- and here it is in English (scroll down).

 

http://125.32.98.1/critenon/%E5%9B%BD%E5%A4%96%E6%A0%87%E5%87%86/EEC/200224e.pdf

 

So if you accept that what we call "throttle only" comes under (h) of Article 1, all the Directive is saying is tthat this type of ebike is exempt from the requirements of Type Approval as the Directive excludes it ("This Directive does not apply to the following vehicles....")- At the time of the Directive-but is that the latest Directive? Nor, by reading on, would it be classed as a moped.

 

But this, per se , does not indicate that they are illegal, just that they are not required to fulfill technical requirements of T.A. (as distinct from safety requirements ).

 

As regards cyclists being fined in Spain-yes Mr Google tells me about fines for cycling in pedestrianised areas, without a helmet, or whilst drunk but I certainly can't find any record of fines re use of ebikes.

 

This really is a complicated minefield, and I'm no nearer establishing the bdefinitive legality of ebikes in Spain.

[Dave225]

Sophie2 - 2016-01-27 4:17 PM

 

Dave225

 

Can you provide a link please to the legislations that prevents ebikes bring sold which has a throttle only capability?

 

I can see that under The Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles – EAPC – (Amendment) Regulations 2015 "twist and go" need to be Type Approved from 1/1/16- not that they can;t be sold. But that law came out in April 2015 so far as I can see

 

Also, definitive evidence of the illegalty of Twist and Go in Spain would be welcome

 

See the following. I assume the retailer knows what he is talking about.

 

http://www.asbikes.co.uk/

 

 

[Muswell]

It seems clear to me. Basically, if it's controlled by the throttle independently of the pedals it's a motor bike.

[Sophie2]

What is clear is that from 1st January 2016 New "Twist and Go" or throttle ebikes had to be Type Approved. AS bikes have decided not to continue selling such bikes after that date. I can only presume that for whatever reason (expense?) they don't want the hassle of Type Approval as they are manufactured in China?

 

And therefore, no, Muswell , a twist and go does not make it a "motorcycle" (provided of course it cannot exceed 15.5mph)

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/482015/electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles.pdf

 

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/electric-bike-guides/uk-electric-bike-law/

 

So that, it seems, is the UK law and the documents talk of "harmonisation" with EU

 

Yes we can assume the law is the same in Spain but I would still like to see the legislation. THanks for your contributions

 

 

 

 

[colin]

I believe you will find that a motorized vehicle is just that unless it meets the new regs in which case it becomes exempt from the rules on motorised vehicles, therefore the Spanish (and countries whose laws are based on Napoleonic codes ) need no special reference to electric bikes with twist and go.