Trickydicky1 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Hi, just bought an auto trail Savannah 2010 which has a tow hook.need to put a scooter rack on it, 50 cc, has anybody any recommendations please.i don't want to tow a trailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Considering the large overhang you might want to calculate the weight which will be put on rear axle before proceeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron. Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Colin's right. I would guess that a scooter, plus rack, plus leverage, is going to put well over 100kg extra weight on your rear axle. Have you the spare payload available? Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Well the replies so far are not to helpful so I would recommend Armitage Trailers whose racks I have used for five years now. The racks are not easy to find on their web site but they are there buried in the towbar section of the website. A 50cc scooter should not be to hard to carry and you will not regret it, we would not go anywhere without ours. If you wanted advice on weights etc. guess you will ask for it but another outfit I have dealt with, Watling Engineering have a weight calculator if you want to work them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Yes Watling Engineers at St. Albans made our scooter rack, excellent company.. many people approach us to ask about the rack and scooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Afternoon folks, I have an armitages scooter rack and it weighs over 30 kg which fits on the towball, The towbar is a Westfaliamrated at 150 kg. The rack and scooter is for sale. norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 PWS in Poole Dorset make a sound rack. I know some replies you have sound a bit negative but they are only trying to help. Most motorhomes/campers are not really suited to having all that weight hanging out the back as chassis extensions on our 'vans are only designed to take the load of the extended bodywork of a coach build or "A" class vehicle. I had one on my old van ( A class Hymer) but stopped using it as the floor was coming away from the furniture. That was with a 50cc Vespa. If you are going to use a swan neck tow ball to mount the rack check the load rating stamped on it. It's usually 50kg! To help the rear axle suspension try airide. That will improve handling if your 'van is front wheel drive but I would definite check the loading on that rear axle as others have said. Sorry to be a bit negative as I have seen the results of a light weight scooter and rack breaking away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 keninpalamos - 2016-01-29 2:18 PM PWS in Poole Dorset make a sound rack. I know some replies you have sound a bit negative but they are only trying to help. Most motorhomes/campers are not really suited to having all that weight hanging out the back as chassis extensions on our 'vans are only designed to take the load of the extended bodywork of a coach build or "A" class vehicle. I had one on my old van ( A class Hymer) but stopped using it as the floor was coming away from the furniture. That was with a 50cc Vespa. If you are going to use a swan neck tow ball to mount the rack check the load rating stamped on it. It's usually 50kg! To help the rear axle suspension try airide. That will improve handling if your 'van is front wheel drive but I would definite check the loading on that rear axle as others have said. Sorry to be a bit negative as I have seen the results of a light weight scooter and rack breaking away. If a rack breaks away it is a poor fitting in the first place, several companies will strengthen the rear section if your vans main chassis does nor extend to the back. As for fitting a scooter rack on a towball, especially a swan neck I have never seen a rack that fits this way. For a rack that fits to the tow ball area the ball is usually removed and the rack bolted direct in its place, how the hell would you fit one to a swan neck type towball. As for most being not suited have to disagree, my last three coach built have all taken a rack with a 125cc scooter with ease, all UK built though so perhaps the Germans just a bit flimsy. (lol) Even when I had a small Swift 530LP in 2008 it took a scooter. I had it uprated to 3500kgs which gave me near 700kg payload and more important an extra 100kg on the rear axle, although when I weighed it fully loaded I need not have bothered it would have been fine at its original 3300kg. Swift did build it properly though with the main chassis extending right to the back of the bodywork. I must also say I fail to see how being negative is helpful. I have no problem with giving advice not asked for but why not give ways to sort it out not try and put people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 rupert123 - 2016-01-29 10:08 PM keninpalamos - 2016-01-29 2:18 PM PWS in Poole Dorset make a sound rack. I know some replies you have sound a bit negative but they are only trying to help. Most motorhomes/campers are not really suited to having all that weight hanging out the back as chassis extensions on our 'vans are only designed to take the load of the extended bodywork of a coach build or "A" class vehicle. I had one on my old van ( A class Hymer) but stopped using it as the floor was coming away from the furniture. That was with a 50cc Vespa. If you are going to use a swan neck tow ball to mount the rack check the load rating stamped on it. It's usually 50kg! To help the rear axle suspension try airide. That will improve handling if your 'van is front wheel drive but I would definite check the loading on that rear axle as others have said. Sorry to be a bit negative as I have seen the results of a light weight scooter and rack breaking away. If a rack breaks away it is a poor fitting in the first place, several companies will strengthen the rear section if your vans main chassis does nor extend to the back. As for fitting a scooter rack on a towball, especially a swan neck I have never seen a rack that fits this way. For a rack that fits to the tow ball area the ball is usually removed and the rack bolted direct in its place, how the hell would you fit one to a swan neck type towball. As for most being not suited have to disagree, my last three coach built have all taken a rack with a 125cc scooter with ease, all UK built though so perhaps the Germans just a bit flimsy. (lol) Even when I had a small Swift 530LP in 2008 it took a scooter. I had it uprated to 3500kgs which gave me near 700kg payload and more important an extra 100kg on the rear axle, although when I weighed it fully loaded I need not have bothered it would have been fine at its original 3300kg. Swift did build it properly though with the main chassis extending right to the back of the bodywork. I must also say I fail to see how being negative is helpful. I have no problem with giving advice not asked for but why not give ways to sort it out not try and put people off. There you go again Rupert encouraging people to risk driving around with dangerously overweight/unbalanced vehicles. Just because you are prepared to do it - and have done it - doesn't mean it is right. Even if it is right for you doesn't mean it is right for the OP. When a vehicle has a large overhang such as the OP's you have to be especially careful. Have you seen the overhang on an Autotrail Savannah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Mike88 - 2016-01-30 7:56 AM rupert123 - 2016-01-29 10:08 PM keninpalamos - 2016-01-29 2:18 PM PWS in Poole Dorset make a sound rack. I know some replies you have sound a bit negative but they are only trying to help. Most motorhomes/campers are not really suited to having all that weight hanging out the back as chassis extensions on our 'vans are only designed to take the load of the extended bodywork of a coach build or "A" class vehicle. I had one on my old van ( A class Hymer) but stopped using it as the floor was coming away from the furniture. That was with a 50cc Vespa. If you are going to use a swan neck tow ball to mount the rack check the load rating stamped on it. It's usually 50kg! To help the rear axle suspension try airide. That will improve handling if your 'van is front wheel drive but I would definite check the loading on that rear axle as others have said. Sorry to be a bit negative as I have seen the results of a light weight scooter and rack breaking away. If a rack breaks away it is a poor fitting in the first place, several companies will strengthen the rear section if your vans main chassis does nor extend to the back. As for fitting a scooter rack on a towball, especially a swan neck I have never seen a rack that fits this way. For a rack that fits to the tow ball area the ball is usually removed and the rack bolted direct in its place, how the hell would you fit one to a swan neck type towball. As for most being not suited have to disagree, my last three coach built have all taken a rack with a 125cc scooter with ease, all UK built though so perhaps the Germans just a bit flimsy. (lol) Even when I had a small Swift 530LP in 2008 it took a scooter. I had it uprated to 3500kgs which gave me near 700kg payload and more important an extra 100kg on the rear axle, although when I weighed it fully loaded I need not have bothered it would have been fine at its original 3300kg. Swift did build it properly though with the main chassis extending right to the back of the bodywork. I must also say I fail to see how being negative is helpful. I have no problem with giving advice not asked for but why not give ways to sort it out not try and put people off. There you go again Rupert encouraging people to risk driving around with dangerously overweight/unbalanced vehicles. Just because you are prepared to do it - and have done it - doesn't mean it is right. Even if it is right for you doesn't mean it is right for the OP. When a vehicle has a large overhang such as the OP's you have to be especially careful. Have you seen the overhang on an Autotrail Savannah? I am doing no such thing, am just offering advice asked for and listing my own experience, which is considerable in this and yours is none. Have never, ever, driven an overloaded van and as I have mentioned in the past, and you choose to ignore even have my own weight pads, van is checked before every trip, is yours? I fully agree everyone should check but if the original poster wants more advice I credit him with enough sense to ask for it, as he has not been back I guess he does not need it. The only issue is getting expert advice on this, you will get none from the van builder and little from the base vehicle supplier. You have no option but to consult outside companies so asking for recommendations makes sense, it is then up to the individual to decide. It is up to each individual to make sure they come within the law with regard to weights and overhang swing, not so easy since the 60% rule was stopped. You seem to have a real chip about this since you failed to find a way to carry a scooter on a panel van, I managed with ease to find a way with even my short base one although I never did. I cannot give any advice on an individual van, nor can you, but can only generalise, it is up to each individual to make the checks. If I do not know I would rather offer encouragement not negative stuff, no harm in pointing out potential pit falls but why not try to offer ways around them rather than simply saying it cannot be done. Companies like Watford Engineering, who I have visited twice, are proper small engineering outfit with a lot of experience in this, they will soon tell you straight if it cannot be done and there must be a few others. Why not stop 'gripping' and stop commenting on stuff you have NO experience of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 rupert123 - 2016-01-30 11:11 AM Mike88 - 2016-01-30 7:56 AM rupert123 - 2016-01-29 10:08 PM keninpalamos - 2016-01-29 2:18 PM PWS in Poole Dorset make a sound rack. I know some replies you have sound a bit negative but they are only trying to help. Most motorhomes/campers are not really suited to having all that weight hanging out the back as chassis extensions on our 'vans are only designed to take the load of the extended bodywork of a coach build or "A" class vehicle. I had one on my old van ( A class Hymer) but stopped using it as the floor was coming away from the furniture. That was with a 50cc Vespa. If you are going to use a swan neck tow ball to mount the rack check the load rating stamped on it. It's usually 50kg! To help the rear axle suspension try airide. That will improve handling if your 'van is front wheel drive but I would definite check the loading on that rear axle as others have said. Sorry to be a bit negative as I have seen the results of a light weight scooter and rack breaking away. If a rack breaks away it is a poor fitting in the first place, several companies will strengthen the rear section if your vans main chassis does nor extend to the back. As for fitting a scooter rack on a towball, especially a swan neck I have never seen a rack that fits this way. For a rack that fits to the tow ball area the ball is usually removed and the rack bolted direct in its place, how the hell would you fit one to a swan neck type towball. As for most being not suited have to disagree, my last three coach built have all taken a rack with a 125cc scooter with ease, all UK built though so perhaps the Germans just a bit flimsy. (lol) Even when I had a small Swift 530LP in 2008 it took a scooter. I had it uprated to 3500kgs which gave me near 700kg payload and more important an extra 100kg on the rear axle, although when I weighed it fully loaded I need not have bothered it would have been fine at its original 3300kg. Swift did build it properly though with the main chassis extending right to the back of the bodywork. I must also say I fail to see how being negative is helpful. I have no problem with giving advice not asked for but why not give ways to sort it out not try and put people off. There you go again Rupert encouraging people to risk driving around with dangerously overweight/unbalanced vehicles. Just because you are prepared to do it - and have done it - doesn't mean it is right. Even if it is right for you doesn't mean it is right for the OP. When a vehicle has a large overhang such as the OP's you have to be especially careful. Have you seen the overhang on an Autotrail Savannah? I am doing no such thing, am just offering advice asked for and listing my own experience, which is considerable in this and yours is none. Have never, ever, driven an overloaded van and as I have mentioned in the past, and you choose to ignore even have my own weight pads, van is checked before every trip, is yours? I fully agree everyone should check but if the original poster wants more advice I credit him with enough sense to ask for it, as he has not been back I guess he does not need it. The only issue is getting expert advice on this, you will get none from the van builder and little from the base vehicle supplier. You have no option but to consult outside companies so asking for recommendations makes sense, it is then up to the individual to decide. It is up to each individual to make sure they come within the law with regard to weights and overhang swing, not so easy since the 60% rule was stopped. You seem to have a real chip about this since you failed to find a way to carry a scooter on a panel van, I managed with ease to find a way with even my short base one although I never did. I cannot give any advice on an individual van, nor can you, but can only generalise, it is up to each individual to make the checks. If I do not know I would rather offer encouragement not negative stuff, no harm in pointing out potential pit falls but why not try to offer ways around them rather than simply saying it cannot be done. Companies like Watford Engineering, who I have visited twice, are proper small engineering outfit with a lot of experience in this, they will soon tell you straight if it cannot be done and there must be a few others. Why not stop 'gripping' and stop commenting on stuff you have NO experience of. Rupert. My experience comes from the professional advice received from the motorhome manufacturer - Swift. In this case the OP is referring to a van with a considerable overhang and it seems to me to be disingenuous to suggest all will be well when you have no idea about the weights and leverage of that particular vehicle. In my view advice should be sought from the vehicle manufacturer rather than an engineering firm that wants to sell you a rack and towbar. My suggestion is that the OP contacts Autotrail but no doubt you know best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Mike88 - 2016-01-30 12:10 PM rupert123 - 2016-01-30 11:11 AM Mike88 - 2016-01-30 7:56 AM rupert123 - 2016-01-29 10:08 PM keninpalamos - 2016-01-29 2:18 PM PWS in Poole Dorset make a sound rack. I know some replies you have sound a bit negative but they are only trying to help. Most motorhomes/campers are not really suited to having all that weight hanging out the back as chassis extensions on our 'vans are only designed to take the load of the extended bodywork of a coach build or "A" class vehicle. I had one on my old van ( A class Hymer) but stopped using it as the floor was coming away from the furniture. That was with a 50cc Vespa. If you are going to use a swan neck tow ball to mount the rack check the load rating stamped on it. It's usually 50kg! To help the rear axle suspension try airide. That will improve handling if your 'van is front wheel drive but I would definite check the loading on that rear axle as others have said. Sorry to be a bit negative as I have seen the results of a light weight scooter and rack breaking away. If a rack breaks away it is a poor fitting in the first place, several companies will strengthen the rear section if your vans main chassis does nor extend to the back. As for fitting a scooter rack on a towball, especially a swan neck I have never seen a rack that fits this way. For a rack that fits to the tow ball area the ball is usually removed and the rack bolted direct in its place, how the hell would you fit one to a swan neck type towball. As for most being not suited have to disagree, my last three coach built have all taken a rack with a 125cc scooter with ease, all UK built though so perhaps the Germans just a bit flimsy. (lol) Even when I had a small Swift 530LP in 2008 it took a scooter. I had it uprated to 3500kgs which gave me near 700kg payload and more important an extra 100kg on the rear axle, although when I weighed it fully loaded I need not have bothered it would have been fine at its original 3300kg. Swift did build it properly though with the main chassis extending right to the back of the bodywork. I must also say I fail to see how being negative is helpful. I have no problem with giving advice not asked for but why not give ways to sort it out not try and put people off. There you go again Rupert encouraging people to risk driving around with dangerously overweight/unbalanced vehicles. Just because you are prepared to do it - and have done it - doesn't mean it is right. Even if it is right for you doesn't mean it is right for the OP. When a vehicle has a large overhang such as the OP's you have to be especially careful. Have you seen the overhang on an Autotrail Savannah? I am doing no such thing, am just offering advice asked for and listing my own experience, which is considerable in this and yours is none. Have never, ever, driven an overloaded van and as I have mentioned in the past, and you choose to ignore even have my own weight pads, van is checked before every trip, is yours? I fully agree everyone should check but if the original poster wants more advice I credit him with enough sense to ask for it, as he has not been back I guess he does not need it. The only issue is getting expert advice on this, you will get none from the van builder and little from the base vehicle supplier. You have no option but to consult outside companies so asking for recommendations makes sense, it is then up to the individual to decide. It is up to each individual to make sure they come within the law with regard to weights and overhang swing, not so easy since the 60% rule was stopped. You seem to have a real chip about this since you failed to find a way to carry a scooter on a panel van, I managed with ease to find a way with even my short base one although I never did. I cannot give any advice on an individual van, nor can you, but can only generalise, it is up to each individual to make the checks. If I do not know I would rather offer encouragement not negative stuff, no harm in pointing out potential pit falls but why not try to offer ways around them rather than simply saying it cannot be done. Companies like Watford Engineering, who I have visited twice, are proper small engineering outfit with a lot of experience in this, they will soon tell you straight if it cannot be done and there must be a few others. Why not stop 'gripping' and stop commenting on stuff you have NO experience of. Rupert. My experience comes from the professional advice received from the motorhome manufacturer - Swift. In this case the OP is referring to a van with a considerable overhang and it seems to me to be disingenuous to suggest all will be well when you have no idea about the weights and leverage of that particular vehicle. In my view advice should be sought from the vehicle manufacturer rather than an engineering firm that wants to sell you a rack and towbar. My suggestion is that the OP contacts Autotrail but no doubt you know best. Really Mike, You should just learn to read a post properly and not just the bit you wish to see. Exactly where did I say all would be well, I said I cannot give advice on any particular van, unless it is one that I owned. Contacting Autotrail a complete waste of time, why would they bother with something of no advantage to them. Contrary to your beliefs not all firms just want to sell something whatever the cost. My final say, just take note please. It may indeed be impossible to fit a scooter rack to the posters van, I have no idea and it is not me who has to make that decision. I can only tell him what MAY be possible and recommend a company to look at it, I recommended two, both of whom I have practical experience of. Your experience seems to be asking Swift and taking their word for everything and giving up. Perhaps the original poster will have the common good manners to come back and tell us all what he does. You are correct about one thing though, yes. in this case I reckon I do know best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Rupert. I was not referring to your latest post but your first one which said this : "As for most being not suited have to disagree, my last three coach built have all taken a rack with a 125cc scooter with ease, all UK built though so perhaps the Germans just a bit flimsy." Anyway my point is that you have to be very careful when assessing the suitability of a scooter rack to a particular motorhome and, while you might have taken the trouble to do this, not everyone is necessarily that careful. Imagine the consequences in the event of an accident if the vehicle is found to be overloaded or unbalanced and suddenly find yourself uninsured and liable for damages. You are correct I gave up trying to fit a scooter to my panel van. But when an engineering firm (one mentioned on this thread) told me it was OK to fit a scooter rack on a towbar rated to carry 50kgs I gave up and it so happens the towball manufacturer (Witter) agreed. Perhaps it comes down to whether you believe Swift and Witter or an engineering firm selling scooter racks. Perhaps we should leave it there and let the OP do his own research but I do agree that it would be helpful to know what is eventually decided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Another vote for Armitage Trailers scooter racks. They are brilliant but mine is fitted into the Alko Chassis not on the tow bar. It is capable of taking 200KG. Solid as a rock. I would talk to them first. http://www.armitagetrailers.com/scooterrackpage.htm I used the calculator at the end of this page to work out payload and carrying capacity. http://www.practicalmotorhome.com/advice/30435-safe-loading-and-payloads It is a limiting factor of many vans. The Brit vans do generally seem to have better payload than a lot of foreign vans though and the Alko chassis on my van means a shorter overhang as well which makes a massive difference. The only real way to establish if you can have one is to get down the weigh bridge, weigh the entire van and both axles and do the maths in the link above. You can get an idea from the manufacturers specs but the only way to know is to do what I have said with your actual van. Good luck as it will transform your motorhome experience. I would not have a motorhome without a scooter now. Last summer we did over 4 months in Europe 4000 miles in the van and 3500 on the bike. For much of that trip the bike had done more miles than the van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickydicky1 Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 Thank you for all your replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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