Warranties and your rights

[enodreven]

Hi, Just a question, Not specifically directed at any MH company I am just asking a general point regarding defective items and the warranty periods. I have noticed on a number of threads where people have stated that they found a fault that was apparently known to the manufacturer, sometime after the warranty period had ended. If this was the case and it can be shown that its a known problem or it can be shown to be a manufacturing defect then does the time taken to notice have any bearing on the problem. I was under the impression that there was a high court ruling regarding latent defects that made it clear that the limit of liability started a countdown, in terms of time, from the time the defect was noted and not from the time of purchase. If I am correct then surely the manufacture has a responsibility to rectify any faults that can be shown to be as a result of a manufacturing defect even after the warranty periods have elapsed. I also seem to remember something regarding whether items are/were "Fit For Purpose" and that this extended to cover items that under normal conditions had a generally accepted life expectancy beyond the 12 months guarantee period eg. like washing machines everyone has a right to expect a washing machine to last a lot longer than just the 12 month guarantee that comes with a new purchase etc. and from what i can understand that has been tested in court and was upheld. be interested to know if my understanding is correct and if this could affect the way some people are treated with outside of warranty claims

[Terrytraveller]

Hi Brian, Tested statuary rights last Friday at Argos, works a treat. I bought a electronic Bug Killer, you know the type u/v light in front and 1000volts behind. It worked a treat for 17 months, then the HV went LV and the bugs started laughing instead of burning (as a boy - I use to pull the wings off of flies). So took it back to Argos, they said 'sorry out of guarantee', I said humbly, 'what does it mean on the back of the receipt about statuary rights', 'I'll see the manager' she said. Without having to quote the 6 year rule, they did know what I was on about. A pro-rata refund was given 17/72 (6yrs x 12months) from the price deducted, and a cash refund given for the remainder. Regards Terry

[enodreven]

Hi, Terry Great well done, that's just the type of point i was trying to raise, you hear of people on the various web sites who have purchased very very expensive MH's who then find that a couple of months outside of the warranty ? period that X or Y has packed up and they get a £200 bill, then they post on hear sometime later only to find that several owners have had to have their X or Y replaced albeit they may have just got in within their warranty periods, surely this isn't right, if the item is faulty due to manufacturing problems or shoddy workmanship then everyone should be entitled to be treated the same, perhaps taking something off for use ?

[RonB]

On a similar theme. Should you miss your annual warranty service by more than 30 days you will find the dealer/manufacturer will decline to honour the warranty - period. However, should you have a fault that is warranty covered the self same dealer/manufacturer can, and will, string you along for months whilst pleading shortage of parts, etc, etc. Why are these double standards allowed to apply?

[Brian Kirby]

The problem with this question is that the answer isn't that straightforward.

The Manufacturer's warranty/guarantee, and your statutory rights to goods that are of "Merchantable Quality" and/or generally "Fit for Purpose", are two quite separate things.  (That is why the normal UK warranty now carries a statement somewhere, to the effect that the warranty is in addition to your statutory rights.)

Your statutory rights affect you, and the person you bought your whatever from.  Generally, they do not apply to private sales, only to sales by businesses.  (There are exceptions to this rule in respect of items such as cars, where if, for example, if a car is sold privately by someone who can be proved to have known it was so defective as to be dangerous, he can be held liable if injury results.  I believe these tend to be quite difficult cases, not really suited to private prosecutions, normally hingeing upon the concept of the "duty of care" that the seller owes the buyer.  If you buy a real duffer privately the best bet, I believe, is to sue via the small claims court, hoping the seller remains solvent!)

Manufacturer's warranties are offers from the manufacturer of goods to repair or replace goods, if defects (usually defective labour or materials) arise within 12 months (sometimes longer) from the date of purchase.  They have no statutory significance and, being in the form of an offer to replace or repair, can be subject to such conditions as the manufacturer chooses.

In respect of your statutory rights, however, you have a right to receive goods that are of merchantable quality (in other words not defective) and fit for purpose (in other words they must be suitable for whatever purpose they were sold).  So, a drill with a defective switch would probably fail the merchantable quality test, whereas one that worked, but was insufficiently powerful to drill holes, would probably fail the fitness for purpose test.

Sticking with the drill, the liability to replace or repair lies with the vendor, i.e. the shop that sold it.  However, whereas the manufacturer's warranty probably wouldn't cover the lack of power issue (unless it was a defect with a single example of the drill) it should cover the defective switch.  In that case, even if you returned the drill to the manufacturer for repair under warranty - rather than returning it to the shopkeeper - it would remain the shopkeeper who was ultimately liable, because you had bought the drill from him.  Even if the manufcturer doesn't then effect a satisfactory repair, so far as I am aware, you can still return the item to the shopkeeper for refund.  However, as this may muddy the waters, it is generally best to approach the vendor immediately you become aware of a defect, and let him decide what he wants to do.  (That is why we keep up the chorus with motorhome defects, forget the guarantee, just take it back to the dealer you bought it from and ask him to get it sorted out.)

The time related issues arise under the Statute of Limitations under which your statutory rights expire after, I think, 6 or 12 years, depending on how the contract was made.  It was Lord Denning who came up with the idea that this time limit should, properly, start from when the claimant could reasonably have been  expected to have noticed the defect under normal circumstances.  (This is a bit double edged: if you are (or claim to be) expert in a field, you'd be expected to spot a defect falling within your expertise sooner than Joe Public would be expected to spot the same problem.  By and large, however, that seems fair and reasonable to me.)

The next bit is the degree of compensation you might get, assuming your claim is accepted/upheld.  You are not, as a matter of course, entitled to replace defective used goods with new.  Your supplier is entitled to deduct value to reflect the use you have already had from the goods before the defect arose.  This is normally arrived at in the way Terry's claim was settled, i.e divide the price paid by the reasonably expected life of the product, multiply the result by the amount of life lost, and refund that sum.  Needless to say, with complicated items such as motorhomes, that calculation becomes much more difficult, and agreement as to its fairness or otherwise much more fraught.

It's just like your parents really, you need to choose your defective goods with care!

[W3526602]

Hi, Where appropriate, is it better to ask for your cash back, and buy again, thus starting the warrantee clock from scratch? If you have the item replaced/repaired, are you stuck with the original warranty start date? I remember taking a toy locomotive back to the shop where we bought the train set. Shop keeper took a new loco out of another set, and exchanged it with ours. He put our dead loco into the new box, and replaced it on the shelf. Oh well, not my problem! 602

[Brian Kirby]

You'd have to decide on a case by case basis.  Motorhomes are large and rather complicated vehicles.  It can't be often that a whole motorhome could be classified as having gone wrong, normally it would be some component or other.  That would make it difficult to take the item back and ask for a refund.  Warranty claim would appear to be your only remedy.  If you bought a sat nav and it wouldn't, back to the shop for a new one would be simplest.