ALANSUE Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Hi, its a bit of a long shot but when I switch on the cruise control on my Autotrail motorhome, Fiat Ducato base, the normal green cruise control light comes on but now also I get the orange fuel warning light on (fuel level 3/4 tank) and a pair of padlock symbols (door locked?) also on and the fuel and padlock symbols flicker. Has anyone had this problem or maybe know what the cure is? Thanks Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 ...a replacement instrument panel. Phantom warning lights is a common problem arising from a faulty panel on X250/X290. There have been numerous posts on this on here about various lights, but more specifically, mine is currently in for a warranty repair (panel should be arriving today) because my brake-pad wear and foglight warnings come on when I switch on cruise control, and on the same day as I booked mine in last week, there was a another post on here detailing brake-pad wear coming on with cruise control. I hope it is within warranty, but if it is not, I would be looking for FIAT to resolve at no cost anyway since the panels (or at least a subset of them) are not of the appropriate quality. (There really are a lot of reports of this). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Robinhood - 2016-01-30 9:39 AM I hope it is within warranty, but if it is not, I would be looking for FIAT to resolve at no cost anyway since the panels (or at least a subset of them) are not of the appropriate quality. (There really are a lot of reports of this). Vans going out of warranty is a worry as it seems that the problem can re-occur at any point; I know of owners who are now on their 3rd cluster. My heart jumps a little every time I turn the cruise control on. I'm thinking of setting up a database and asking people from the various forums to log their instrument cluster replacements so that in the future a list could be produced to present to Fiat/Peugeot to counter any suggestion that an owner should foot any part of the cost of replacing this dire component outwith the warranty period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I understand from another forum that, despite FIAT declining to fully-fund an out-of-warranty instrument change (a partial goodwill offer was made), prolonged polite persistence eventually prevailed, and a free replacement was agreed). If I get myself in the same position I'll be quite prepared to be polite for some time, but if that doesn't prevail (given the number of instances now seen), I shall let loose the full wrath of consumer law. ;-) The database (or at least a "record" thread on here), would be a good idea - do you want to start it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Robinhood - 2016-01-30 11:06 AM.................... If I get myself in the same position I'll be quite prepared to be polite for some time, but if that doesn't prevail (given the number of instances now seen), I shall let loose the full wrath of consumer law................... Don't wish to be the killjoy, but have you looked into what that wrath might amount to? I have serious doubts that it can be used against Fiat even within warranty, never mind outside. Is there a VOSA recall on these panels, or isn't it considered a safety issue? If there is, I would think Fiat would have to continue replacing them until they fully eliminate the fault. Replacing one faulty component with another wouldn't seem to me to discharge their legal obligation to rectify. If at first you don't succeed, try and try again? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninian Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Hi, I had my cluster replaced recently within warranty, same problem switching on the cruise control brought other ones on as well. Repaired by the dealer for free but he gave me a receipt for the work just under £950. It's the printed circuit board that's the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 ...I don't doubt that it can't be used (directly) against Fiat, as the Sale of Goods Act puts the retailer firmly in the chair. (which is why I was careful not to state that). Whilst it might prove a protracted affair to pursue, if instrument panels repeatedly fail, and continue to to do so beyond the warranty period, I think there is now ample evidence to take action on the basis that they are not fit for purpose (and I believe consumer law would support this principle for a period of 6 years from purchase). If someone were to try to charge me beyond the warranty period for a further replacement, then my first recourse would be to look for Fiat "goodwill" at the point of diagnosis, then to look to the original retailer to fund a replacement. If then still unsuccessful, I would then fall back on action against the retailer in the small claims court. Given the propensity for these panels to fail (and given my understanding that FIAT have, possibly reluctantly, funded replacement(s) out of warranty) I think maintaining a record of the repeated failures would be well worthwhile. I suspect VOSA won't issue a recall until they clearly see it as a safety issue, though if it starts to affect the lights that are considered important enough to check at MOT time (and fail if they are not working properly) the situation may change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Which well illustrates the problem of trying to use consumer legislation as presently drafted. I think those affected by this should duly take note. There presently seems no clear evidence that replacement clusters eliminate the problem, which seems to me odd, as one might think Fiat would wish to minimise its costs by first ensuring they will. My present conclusion is that either the fault does not lie in the cluster, or Fiat cannot discriminate "improved" clusters from "unimproved", which seems incompetent. Otherwise, why keep shipping out new clusters to be replaced at their own cost? I therefore think the suggestion of keeping records of all replacements fitted, and when, is an excellent defensive idea. I also think it would be wise to keep selling dealers in the loop since, as I understand the law, they should be given the opportunity to rectify the problem themselves. Otherwise, if the first a seller hears of a claim is after Fiat has declared its warranty "spent", I think the legal process may be made more difficult than it need be. If selling dealers are politely put on notice that in the absence of an effective fix from Fiat their customers will turn to them for remedy, however regretfully, they just may begin to complain to the converters, and the converters to Fiat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I'd be quite interested to know if the problem is restricted to RHD instrumentation. I've not seen any posts yet which immediately strike me as being for LHD vehicles. Neither can I on a quick peruse find any German posts complaining about dashboard failures. Contrary to some opinions expressed on here, however, I can find a lot of Germans complaining about the visibility of the X290 instruments on LHD vehicles, and questioning why they are not illuminated permanently with the ignition. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALANSUE Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 THANK YOU ALL! What a great forum this is! Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Robinhood - 2016-01-30 8:24 PM I'd be quite interested to know if the problem is restricted to RHD instrumentation. I've not seen any posts yet which immediately strike me as being for LHD vehicles. Neither can I on a quick peruse find any German posts complaining about dashboard failures. I found the first one on the very first German forum page that I looked at: https://www.wohnmobilforum.de/w-t103917.html 'Glimmering warning lights' when switching on the Tempomat (cruise control). 3 pages of people saying 'me too'. I'm still thinking about the database idea and the best way to do it - I think it would be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskers Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I have the exclamation warning showing, and a message telling me to check the daylight running lights. The lights appear to be ok to me. Has anyone had this same problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgas Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Robinhood - 2016-01-30 8:24 PM I'd be quite interested to know if the problem is restricted to RHD instrumentation. I've not seen any posts yet which immediately strike me as being for LHD vehicles. Neither can I on a quick peruse find any German posts complaining about dashboard failures. Contrary to some opinions expressed on here, however, I can find a lot of Germans complaining about the visibility of the X290 instruments on LHD vehicles, and questioning why they are not illuminated permanently with the ignition. :-) Robinhood and others: I complained to my dealer about the visibility of the speedo and rev counter in certain daylight conditions. I asked if the full cluster lights could be on all the time the ignition is on. They said NO. I stopped at a Fiat Professional truck dealer and they said I wasn't the first person to ask this, and they also said no. Computers again! If they were filament bulbs I could just run a wire from the ignition-on 12v to the bulbs and that would be the end of it. But I bet the cluster is full of microprocessors because they are cheaper than a bit of wire. HOWEVER if you look in Feb 2016 MMM, page 26 you will find a full page describing the problem and a phone number at the bottom as Fiat have agreed to replace speedo clusters with a new one with full illumination, free of charge but not before the end of March 2016. You have to register. Don't get crushed in the rush, get behind me! Fiat babble on about always striving to provide top quality products, a small number of owners have complained, aren't we wonderful providing something that should have worked properly in the first place, blah blah as you would expect. The phone number to call and get in the queue is 00800 3428 1111 or visit the website fiatcamper.com. I tried that but couldn't see how to register, it was as you would expect, full of 'Buy This, Buy That, Buy The Other', anything but 'Complain Here'. You will not be able to tell what it costs to call an 00800 number by the way, but it sure will be cheaper than buying a new cluster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 gasgas - 2016-01-31 11:31 PM Robinhood and others: I complained to my dealer about the visibility of the speedo and rev counter in certain daylight conditions. I asked if the full cluster lights could be on all the time the ignition is on. They said NO. I stopped at a Fiat Professional truck dealer and they said I wasn't the first person to ask this, and they also said no. Computers again! If they were filament bulbs I could just run a wire from the ignition-on 12v to the bulbs and that would be the end of it. But I bet the cluster is full of microprocessors because they are cheaper than a bit of wire. HOWEVER if you look in Feb 2016 MMM, page 26 you will find a full page describing the problem and a phone number at the bottom as Fiat have agreed to replace speedo clusters with a new one with full illumination, free of charge but not before the end of March 2016. You have to register. Don't get crushed in the rush, get behind me! Fiat babble on about always striving to provide top quality products, a small number of owners have complained, aren't we wonderful providing something that should have worked properly in the first place, blah blah as you would expect. The phone number to call and get in the queue is 00800 3428 1111 or visit the website fiatcamper.com. I tried that but couldn't see how to register, it was as you would expect, full of 'Buy This, Buy That, Buy The Other', anything but 'Complain Here'. You will not be able to tell what it costs to call an 00800 number by the way, but it sure will be cheaper than buying a new cluster. Gasgas - there is a thread a few pages back now that has information regarding the separate issue of difficulty in reading the instruments. http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Reading-speedo-in-dull-conditions-/38945/ There's also some information sbout Fiat's 00800 number in this thread. It is free from anywhere within Europe by the way although the thread details problems in dialling it from the O2 network. http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Nightmare-contacting-Fiat/40659/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 gasgas - 2016-01-31 11:31 PM HOWEVER if you look in Feb 2016 MMM, page 26 you will find a full page describing the problem and a phone number at the bottom as Fiat have agreed to replace speedo clusters with a new one with full illumination, free of charge but not before the end of March 2016. You have to register. Don't get crushed in the rush, get behind me! ...yes, I know about the visibility issue, and the potential fix (my expectation is that it will be a re-program of the body computer to switch the instrument lighting on with the ignition, not a new panel). I will (probably) register for the fix, but as I currently have a workaround (which may well be better than the fix), and given Fiat's track record on electrics, I won't be at the front of the queue with the "test pilots". ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Thanks all. Just found dimmed light for empty fuel and water in diesel light glowing when cruise control on. Warranty runs out may 1st so will phone in morning. Question? We are having motorehome specialist to do our service on engine tuesday as a lot cheaper than fiat. Would this affect us getting the dashboard fixed under warranty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 chris - 2016-03-13 11:55 AM Thanks all. Just found dimmed light for empty fuel and water in diesel light glowing when cruise control on. Warranty runs out may 1st so will phone in morning. Question? We are having motorehome specialist to do our service on engine tuesday as a lot cheaper than fiat. Would this affect us getting the dashboard fixed under warranty? Is the service to be carried out by Essenjay by any chance. I think they are approve Fiat Professional dealers (I do hate using the word professional in relation to Fiat) !!! I would only use Fiat approved garages when within the warranty period judging by previous threads on here where Fiat have declined their support when servicing has been carried out by others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 ...well, strictly, unless there is an oil change warning light, the service can be delayed to the (2nd) anniversary of registration - presumably the same date as the warranty expires? If where you are having it serviced uses oem quality parts, and is VAT registered, then my understanding is that this doesn't invalidate the warranty (though Fiat may want to see the evidence of the latter). OTOH, if the service is carried out next week, but any stamping of the service book is delayed by arrangement (you should still have the invoice), then any Fiat Dealer you go to for the lights issue isn't going to know about/be interested in it, and if you arrange to have the book stamped in arrears, then all should be ticketty-boo. Just make sure there aren't any service date stickers left under the bonnet, and that the oil filter doesn't look completely clean. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry1956 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Hi, Sometime back I had most of the lights dancing about at will. took it back to fiat main dealer. they find a wire had fault which had been split by a cable tie and was shorting out. This cable is just under the centre storage unit of the dashboard. The reason given by the dealer service manager was that the cables are to thin and cut to short which makes breakage a lot more common. the reason he give for this was the ever growing demand for cost cutting and lightness of cars vans etc to meet the green demands. anyway check that cable set for splits. michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Thanks everyone. Phoning up in the morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Phoned Days of Swansea and they acknowledged fault on the phone and ordering part for new clock. Phone me when in. Have to decide if go to local motorehome service specialist for engine service tomorrow or cancel in case problems. But fiat said it's up to me but they advise with them while under warranty. Got to decide quick ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Phoned Days of Swansea and they acknowledged fault on the phone and ordering part for new clock. Phone me when in. Have to decide if go to local motorehome service specialist for engine service tomorrow or cancel in case problems. But fiat said it's up to me but they advise with them while under warranty. Got to decide quick ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry1956 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 there is know need in law for you to use fiat. but you must make sure that the correct fiat branded parts are used and that includes the correct oil. At this stage in the game and with a known fault I would go with fiat for the service. then there is know way out for them if it all goes wrong again. michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Not just Fiat but Peugeot as well, when I turn my cruise control on it is the Brake pad wear and what I think is the heater (curly wire) that comes on, feel sorry for the panel makers, hope they don't go bust. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Will arrange service with fiat when part comes in now. Better safe than sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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