Gas regulators and loss of supply of gas

[Don Madge]

This was posted on the Motorhome List by Stephen Buckley MD of Dick Lane Motorhomes, Bradford "During this Summer there has been various posts from members who have had gas problems (don't we all?) that appear to have centred around the new type of regulator. We have just received a 'Dealer Bulletin' from Truma which may be of interest to list members. It runs to two pages so it is far too long to reproduce here but the essence of it is that Truma have been replacing these regulators under warranty but will decline to do so as from 1st December. The reason, put simply, is that the regulators have been found not to be defective but have been malfunctioning due to "oily residues" and "plasticizers containing certain phthalates ..... not found in the materials used in the construction of the regulators, its diaphragm or the Truma high pressure hose" being found in the regulators. They go on to say "Unfortunately the quality of the Truma regulator may be trapping some of these phthalates where other (manufacturer's) products may let them through into the gas system". Paradoxically Truma then go on to say that "the same problem has occurred in Australia where no Truma regulators have been sold, therefore the only common factors could be the gas supplier or other equipment in the gas installation". The bulletin mentions that Calor "suggest the regulator be mounted above the inlet of the gas bottle and the hose should not be 'curled' or 'looped' (which may have the effect of) allowing collection of these plasticizers. Also that an elbow be installed to further ensure that plasticizers do not collect in the regulator". They conclude by saying that "Perhaps these recommendations by Calor suggest that the phthalates can then not be trapped in the regulators or hose assembly and can in fact travel BACK (their capitals) into the gas bottle" and "that from 1st December 2006 Truma will no longer accept any warranty costs for these contaminated regulators" as they "believe this is not a Truma problem" even though up to now they have "continued to cover the escalating costs of this (under terms of) warranty" when "no other industry supplier has been willing to help the customer financially". So there you have it - plainly Truma see it as a Calor problem and not a Truma problem." Stephen is mailing me a full transcript, if anybody would like a copy let me know. Regards Don

[chas]

Thanks Don, that is very useful information, I posted several letters over the past 12 months about the problems I was having, and I am now on my 3rd regulator. My dealer told me from the start that the problem lay with Calor, and I even phoned Truma and was told more or less what you have stated. In the CCC magazine they where suggesting having the regulator higher than the cylinder, but in my case this is not possible as there is not enough room in the gas cupboard. I changed to Flowgas propane and have not had any problems SO FAR, I am also contenplating changing the propane hose, which is made in some form of rubber/ plastic to a Gaslow stainless steel hose , this may also help, fingers crossed. Chas

[Bill Ord]

Hi Don, When I was having my Truma Combi 6002 modified under the Truma recall at the Swindon branch of Brownhills I met a customer who was in to have his fourth regulator replacement!! When I asked him if he was concerned as to how long Truma would continue to replace the regulators he told me he was changing vans anyway!! Great, but it really is not good enough to fit regulators that won't work on Calor gas as that is the main supplier in the U.K. I tend to run on Butane and have a Propane cylinder in the locker as a swing unit if the weather turns cold and I've noticed an oily residue in my hose when i've removed it from the clip on adaptor. My hose is long enough to have a loop in it and I intend to stick with this method even though my Rapido fortunately doesn't have a Truma regulator.

[Motorhometone]

I am new to this forum, apologies if this issue as already been raised. With respect to loss of supply of gas: My motorhome is now 6 years old and as advised I decided to replace the tails between the Calor propane cylinders and the fixed auto switchover unit. The original tails consisted of a cone shaped rubber washer pressed on to the tail end which screwed into the cylinder. The replacement tails were just metal cone shaped ends with no seal. Having fixed an tightened the new tails on with the correct spanner I turned on the cylinder only to smell and hear the noise of gas escaping between the cylinder and the tail. This was confirmed with a liquid test and then a silly quick one I really should not admit too with a live flame and very wet rag. I tried both tails on 3 different cylinders with same results. I installed my original tails and they were fine. I know the amount of leakage was only slight and it maybe I just bought faulty tails but over time it would explain a loss of gas. I intend to buy new tails soon from a Calor shop and request we try them on their premises. I only noticed the leak because my cylinders are in a tight compartment and so both noise and smell was more detectable. I would be interested if anyone else as met this problem.

[Dave Newell]

Hi guys, from my research into this subject I can tell you that it is NOT limited to Calor. I have spoken to people who used Calor propane, Flogas propane, Shell propane and even refillable cylinders filled at autogas stations and all of them have had regulator failures. There are two common points with these failures; 1. they have all been Truma regulators. 2. the regulators have all been mounted below the top of the cylinder and in a vertical position. The only solution that appears to work in the long term is to reposition the regulator so that it is above the top of the cylinder and in a horizontal alignment. I beleive Truma have sent out a notification to converters to this effect. D.

[Don Madge]

This is the latest in the "Truma Trauma" on Regulators To: All NCC Member Touring Caravan & Motorhome Manufacturers All Touring Caravan and Motorhome Dealers using Truma Regulators FAO: The Principal Truma Gas Regulator, contamination Following the National Caravan Council's notification of 15'h November, relating to the occasional contamination of the gas system in Caravans and Motorhomes, the National Caravan Council, under the stewardship of the recently appointed Deputy Director General, John Lally, organized a joint meeting on 28th November of the NCC Touring Caravan Manufacturers' and Motorhome Manufacturers' Sections. This collaborative effort brought together the key companies involved in the trade supply chain. As a result of this meeting, the NCI is delighted to announce that new arrangements have been put in place to cover the cost of providing and installing replacement regulators should contamination occur, Warranty arrangements will be administered through the normal Caravan/Motorhome Manufacturer's warranty scheme. A standard warranty form has been drafted and this will be made available to all manufacturers and dealers for immediate use. The new arrangements will ensure that, as far as the Caravan or Motorhome user is concerned, there will be a seamless change which will not in any way raise cause for concern should a regulator contamination problem be encountered. The meeting also agreed a procedure whereby vehicles in use abroad could be rectified with the minimum of inconvenience to the user. Credit must be given to Truma and the Caravan/Motorhome manufacturers for the action they have taken to ensure that the user suffers as little inconvenience as possible. The Caravan Club and The Camping and Caravanning Club should also be applauded for their support and assistance in this matter. This clearly illustrates the benefit of the industry working together in a unified direction for the benefit of the customer." So that seems good news for anyone owning a motorhome or caravan that comes under the umbrella of the NCC. To check the membership of the NCC see http://tinyurl.com/y6mrck Regards Don

[chas]

Thanks for that information Don, yet I cannot see how this is going to be of any benifit to anyone like myself, who is on their 3rd regulator. What about the inconveniance of being away and the regulator packs in. This as happen to me twice, I am not interested to know I can take it in to have it fixed under warranty, I would like The problem to be classed as a recall procedure and fixed so it will not ever happen again. Regards chas

[Brian Kirby]

Based on Dave's comments, and assuming his sources are reliable (sorry Dave and sources!), it would appear that the regulators sold/supplied via Truma UK are probably not fit for purpose.  If Truma wishes to restrict the type of gas, or high pressure hose, with which they can be used, they should clearly state this on the box!  "Do not use this regulator with the following brands of gas/hose", or similar.  As they haven't done this, despite knowing of the problem, I suspect they remain legally liable whatever they say.

My suggestion would be that you get together to form a "Truma Regulator Action Group", or whatever.  One of those affected would then need to canvass as widely as possible, perhaps inserting announcements in MMM, Camping and Caravanning Club and Caravan Club magazines (Watchdog?), and gathering in as many as possible of the details of those affected, the numbers of failures, the gas used, where & when obtained etc etc, (a bit along the lines of my own posting on this issue), to act as a clearing house back to Truma.

The point of all this graft being to let Truma know that they are not dealing with a few isolated individuals who they can hoodwink and flannel to, but a group who can cite types and brands of gas used, where and when bought, and numbers of failures experienced.  United you stand, etc, etc.  Then, if necessary, using the evidence so gathered, and possibly with advice from Trading Standards, I think a case could be assembled against Truma under the Sale of Goods, or Supply of Goods (Implied Terms), Acts that their regulators are defective and unfit for UK sale.

The point being that Truma would also know this, so should begin to react rather more constructively than to date.  They should begin to get the hint if they just knew such a group existed.  After all, they are just beginning to market the DriveSafe system, which depends on one of their regulators.  Knowing their regulators may be unreliable, would you invest in this system?  I would therefore suggest that the MD of Truma UK be written to, as a courtesy, on behalf of the group and before the announcements are placed, to advise that the group exists, and intends to run these, and why. 

Truma will wake up if they think customers may begin to shun their products as unreliable.  If prospective motorhome buyers begin asking dealers to replace Truma regulators with other makes on grounds of unreliability, that will also will filter back to Truma.  It may take a while, but it should bring results.

The alternative, involving a bit of expense, but a lot less work, may be just to change to some other regulator make.  It seems other makes aren't affected at all, or are scarcely affected.  The one in our van', which is an autochangeover type, is made by Casagna of Italy, and has given no trouble to date.  They are marketed in UK by Gaslow, who advised me yesterday that they had experienced no failure problems with this manufacturer.  Now, under present circumstances, they do have a marketing advantage to look to, so may perhaps be a little economical with the verite, but the word was no failures at all.  No, they said, not one!  Why not talk to them yourselves to see what they say?