Dave225 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 We have all heard many stories outlining the financial benefits of having a motorhome such as lower depreciation than a motor car for example. However, that may not always be as true a situation as many of us think, or hope. I offer the following as an example of how this may work out. In the latest issue of a popular motorhome magazine there is a section where the magazine showcases used vans as 'bargains'. One of the vans on offer is an Autocruise Rhythm panel van conversion '65 registered. This is on offer at a very attractive price of £35900 and needless to say had already been sold by the time the magazine hit the shops. It had only 167 miles on the clock and was owned by the previous owner for only 1 month. The van was a pre facelift model even with the late registration so had obviously sat for a few months before being sold first time round. The article commented on the attractiveness of the offer by comparing the sale price of £35900 with a new price of £47710, although that would now be for a face lifted model. However, my thoughts turned to what was the price offered to the first owner by the dealer when he/she sold the van on. If the dealer is offering it for sale at £35900 then I guesstimate the previous owner probably received about £33000 for it, so for 1 month's use and 167 miles the cost had been in the order of £14000, or 30% depreciation. That to my mind is a lot of money to lose, especially for such a short period of ownership, and I hope the first owner got something positive out of it. Although this is possibly an extreme example it does show that the value we place on our motorhomes may not be as commercially valid as we hope. Of course the other side of the coin is that if you buy a nearly new van then you will have escaped what could be a pretty massive depreciation loss. It makes me feel a lot happier that I did not succumb to the 'tempting' offers at Shows and bought 2nd hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I doubt she would have got as much as £33k on a £35950 retailprice as dealers generally like about a 20% margin these days. The same sort of loss is true of extreme depreciation whatever vehicle you buy. There are budget vans from the nineties that retailed new for around £20k and can still be seen advertised for not far shy of that. Now that is low depreciation! If you buy from a dealer you have to accept the dealer margins in addition to natural depreciation so logically the longer you keep your van and the older it gets the lower the average annual depreciation - and this too is generally true of all vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I doubt very much if it was sold at list price, being a previous model. My guess is that it was a "demonstrator" and the previous owner was the dealer themselves. Just look at the discounts available at shows, I've seen £10,000 off "new" models, margins are huge, especially compared to similar models on sale in Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebeaches Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Whilst fully appreciating the point Dave - the OP - has highlighted, I'd suggest the first owner of the PVC would not have paid anything close to the quoted price for a new model £47,710. As Dave pointed out, it had a '65' registration, but was a pre-facelifted van. Hence it was already old stock when sold and first registered, and therefore likely to have benefited from a hefty discount. Nonetheless, one would assume the original owner still took a big hit for trading it in so soon after purchase. Equally, it may be the case that the dealer gave them a good deal for swapping to a bigger - possibly more expensive van? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b9k9uk Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Tracker - 2016-02-09 4:38 PM There are budget vans from the nineties that retailed new for around £20k and can still be seen advertised for not far shy of that. Now that is low depreciation! Sounds like a good deal until you reckon in the debilitating effects of inflation. I once had collection of 00 trains and rolling stock I sold at a car boot sale. I got what I paid for them some years previously and thought I was doing well.. until the debilitating effects of inflation took hold. It would be interesting to know whether any new vans actually go for the advertised list price. With extras and so forth thrown into the mix, so called dealer 'discounts' etc I don't think any van is sold for its list price. The second hand examples of motorhomes I have been looking at recently have been high in comparison to there listed price tag new. (The listed price is all we have to go on after all). That is to say top of the range examples of up to 5 years old are commanding prices equal to or greater than new budget models of today. On the other hand that the car I have, a 'W' reg Nissan is not even considered suitable for a trade in! Meaning they don't it even want it if I paid them to take it away! Such is commerce today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Dave225 - 2016-02-09 4:19 PM One of the vans on offer is an Autocruise Rhythm panel van conversion '65 registered. This is on offer at a very attractive price of £35900 and needless to say had already been sold by the time the magazine hit the shops.. I'm not surprised it was sold, looking around most dealers want that price for a 2012 van, I've seen such articles before and always on checking the 'attractively priced' van is sold and all other vans of same model year are considerably more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCC Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Pound for pound motorhomes do depreciate slower than similarly priced cars but that doesn't mean they are cheap! It's about whether you want the lifestyle or not. There's a lot of rubbish talked about depreciation. People are encouraged to look at it in percentage terms and as a result some very stupid statements are made. For example, a Nissan Micra costing £10,000 is likely to lose about 50% of it's value in 3 years. Not good. A Bentley Continental costing £140,000 is likely to lose about 38% of its value over 3 years. Supposedly much better. But in cash terms the Nissan will cost £5,000 (probably less if discounts are taken into account) whilst the Bentley will cost over £50,000 - 10 times as much. You may feel you would rather drive a Bentley but depreciation is far, far higher. Likewise with motorhomes. The more expensive they are the higher the depreciation in cash terms (generally). And if you buy a used motorhome and keep it for a number of years then, as with a car, the original owner is likely to have taken proportionately more of the depreciation. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I look at two figures. Neither is depreciation. One is the cost of changing to a different van and the second, more important, is the likely Total Cost of Ownership.The former is a figure arrived at almost immediately, the latter needs some thought because of the dearth of information on motorhome ownership. TCO is a personal calculation. Often overlooked, and which I include in TCO, is the 'Opportunity Cost' which is about what do I lose by not competing this transaction. Those who dabble in stocks and shares will often do this calculation subconsciously. For mere mortals, OC may be related to selling/changing the motorhome to benefit a loved one. All this makes me somewhat nerdy but no more so than those who pontificate on whether a rubber grommet is better than a plastic one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry1956 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I think that PVC do drop in price faster the say an A class motorhome. I have a 2014 globecar and I new ones at dealers now for less the I paid for my van. OK I have the twin rear bed model, but I have seen a new one much the same for 6000 pounds less then I paid out.as to dealer mark ups. I px an old autotrail for 24,000 pounds, the dealer had it on his site the following day at 36,000 pounds. and it was sold within three weeks. I purchased the auto trail off ebay for 22,000 so had some fun out of it, and was happy with the dealer paid. but all cars, vans etc are money pits, best not to think of it. michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 If the owner Paid the list price, I would assume there would have been some discount in some form for an "old" stock model. But for round figures lets assume £48k - immediately it goes out the showroom you can say goodbye to the VAT element @ 20% on a NEW vehicle so he lost £6k after travelling only a few metres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 terry1956 - 2016-02-10 10:56 AM I think that PVC do drop in price faster the say an A class motorhome.... This will change your mind on that! I negotiated the purchase of a 2000 reg Swift Belair A class on Fiat 2.8 Ducato for some friends of mine who at the time were in France. 41k on the clock and absolutely mint condition inside and out. I'm sure they won't mind me telling you it was a touch over £16k. I've seen PVC's of the same year/mileage go for that, and more. http://oi66.tinypic.com/58biq.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 flicka - 2016-02-10 10:47 PM immediately it goes out the showroom you can say goodbye to the VAT element @ 20% on a NEW vehicle so he lost £6k after travelling only a few metres. This isn't strictly true the VAT 'adds value' to the product. If you were to drive out of the showroom and advertise the van for say £46k it would be a £2k saving on the showroom price and £4k more than the VAT free price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Depreciation?.........what depreciation? :D ..........Classic campers are appreciating B-)......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-02-11 8:15 AM Depreciation?.........what depreciation? :D ..........Classic campers are appreciating B-)......... Indeed so, but it is getting harder to find coal for the fire!!!!!!!!! More seriously I suspect that many of us once we get to the twilight years are less interested in crawling around fixing things and hope that a newer model will be more reliable. I agree it is not always so, but the odds are better. Also some of the newre developments do make life more pleasant. I admit that the new Truma electrci/gas heating in my van is a dream compared to the old Truma in my caravan where I have to flick the switch while looking for a flame in a tiny window. On the other hand I accept that some of the new computerised systems are probably more trouble than they are worth. Some comments above suggest that it was the dealer who was the owner but I feel the magazine would have had to make that clear, and stated categorically it was a new owner. I am just at a loss to know why anyone would commit to such a purchase and then dispose of it so soon. I guess he never took his wife along and she was already packed for Barbados. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Dave225 - 2016-02-11 11:29 AM Some comments above suggest that it was the dealer who was the owner but I feel the magazine would have had to make that clear, and stated categorically it was a new owner. I am just at a loss to know why anyone would commit to such a purchase and then dispose of it so soon. I guess he never took his wife along and she was already packed for Barbados. It could be that the dealer did the old ex display shuffle with a vehicle that had being hanging around :-S ........Or the purchaser decided they didn't like the colour........My parents swapped a new A class Rapido Merc for a Hymer after 3 months coz the telly was in the wrong position 8-) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall_Mike Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Pure speculation on my part however I can just about see some reasons why one would own a van for a month - Possibly a death or sudden and incapacitating illness, - redundancy or job loss, offer of a job abroad, - even a divorce, - realisation that one seriously overstretched oneself financially. Loss of driving licence All will lead to a substantial financial loss - however if the situation was genuinely irretrievable - then selling up is something I would do, - after all owning a motorhome is a luxury and a hobby - not an essential for most, for a very few it's their residence, Saying that I fervently hope that there isn't a need and a wise person would should have thought a little about What if ? - my experience though is the thing that hits you is the thing you didn't see, I have always felt that buying a demonstrator is the way forward - the biggest deprecation we will encounter is when you drive 100 yards onto the road for the first time, - I guess there is somewhere around a 15% hit, if you can get 10% off the price of a new van - you have all the balance of the warranties, most probably all initial snags have been fixed and you may get a better spec. When you sell or exchange, although the V5 will show 2 owners, - most often the fact that it was a demonstrator gets lost, The other thing is the extra's - I know I will never get back anything like the value of extra's added to our van, the only way to see any value is to use the pieces regularly. At a point - usually far out in the future vans will become a classic and will appreciate although I cannot see that happening to many vehicles out there at the moment, - until then, depreciation which doesn't impact until you come to sell or exchange, recognising that our vans are depreciating assets. - I feel that statements like - there is less deprecation than a car, - possibly correct but it's also a sales pitch, which van, which car, - etc. There is so little interest to be gained by investing the money, might as well have fun - and it is all about life style which I think a decent van could revolutionise - For myself, I would be very uncomfortable getting a loan for a van which makes the financial situation far worse - but fully understand others who may want to do this - Opportunity costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Tall_Mike - 2016-02-11 12:15 PM Pure speculation on my part however I can just about see some reasons why one would own a van for a month - Possibly a death or sudden and incapacitating illness, - redundancy or job loss, offer of a job abroad, - even a divorce, - realisation that one seriously overstretched oneself financially. Loss of driving licence All will lead to a substantial financial loss - however if the situation was genuinely irretrievable - then selling up is something I would do, - after all owning a motorhome is a luxury and a hobby - ...and let's not forget, irrespective of the level of "loss", some folk will simply have the funds to change a van/"hobby" that they just didn't like as much as they thought they would?.. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brabander Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Even "experienced" motorhome buyers can sometimes make a mistake when buying a new motorhome. I unfortunately speak from experience. I purchased by 4th motorhome in haste as the previous motorhome did not fit my new (shorter) drive way. We used the new motorhome for 3 months and then sold it back to the dealer with a whopping big loss. I would have loved to have done a trade in deal with him but he had nothing else that suited us. A major contributory factor was the fact that the motorhome had many VERY serious defects but despite this the dealer refused to take it back but instead offered to repair the defects which would have meant that the motorhome would not have been available for our entire summer holidays. At our age we decided to absorb the loss instead. In my experience, during the first 3 years, most new motorhomes depreciate just as much in % terms as most cars. All claims to the contrary are just propaganda! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Absolute rubbish, you look on eBay for '2012 motorhome' and see if they are worth 50% of their new value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Charles - 2016-02-12 11:28 AMAbsolute rubbish, you look on eBay for '2012 motorhome' and see if they are worth 50% of their new value. The forecourt/asking price of used motorhomes is not the same thing at all as what you could actually sell them for. If you compare what you paid for a new motorhome with what the trade would buy it from you for (for cash) at three years old, you might well only get 50%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 It depends how wisely you buy, my last van that I bought new only depreciated by %5 per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 An experienced car trader I used to know always said he made his profit when he bought, not when he sold. That's when you are in control, you can always walk away, but if you are trying to sell you can't. His tips, never buy new, work out what you want to spend and stick to it, always haggle, even then ask for extras, be prepared to walk away but leave a contact number. But of course as a dealer he wasn't buying for himself. He used to hang around the newsagents for the paper and would have bought cars before the afternoon edition came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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