BKen1 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 So you have the safe system installed not the iffy one, then you should be advising the OP to go down your approach or just get exchange bottles on his trip. His question was is it Safe /Legal Safe ..possibly with caveates hummm......Legal... I dont think So. Actually that should be a NO Cheap...Yes Brian K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 sshortcircuit - 2016-02-16 3:24 PM ..... A typical ill-informed posting. It doesn't follow that postings are ill-informed just because they don't align with your opinions Mr Sshortcircuit. Other people can have perfectly valid conflicting opinions, in this case that devices which don't include automatic safety features are not suitable for use by the general public, 50% of whom are below average intelligence and quite a lot of whom will be ill informed about how to deal safely with LPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Tracker - 2016-02-16 3:36 PM My refillable bottle inlet is just inside the gas locker Now while we're talking about what's legal and what isn't, how about we include the subject of in-locker filler points.. :-D BSEN 1949 NCC cop 306: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 StuartO - 2016-02-16 3:50 PMsshortcircuit - 2016-02-16 3:24 PM ..... A typical ill-informed posting. It doesn't follow that postings are ill-informed just because they don't align with your opinions Mr Sshortcircuit. Other people can have perfectly valid conflicting opinions, in this case that devices which don't include automatic safety features are not suitable for use by the general public, 50% of whom are below average intelligence and quite a lot of whom will be ill informed about how to deal safely with LPG.Everybody is entitled to an opinion however an opinion without facts is a bit useless. If you have not seen both methods used then how can you have an informed opinion?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Steve928 - 2016-02-16 3:51 PM Tracker - 2016-02-16 3:36 PM My refillable bottle inlet is just inside the gas locker Now while we're talking about what's legal and what isn't, how about we include the subject of in-locker filler points.. :-D BSEN 1949 NCC cop 306: I really don't care for petty rules and I have no intention of cutting a hole in my van just to suit some arbritary guidlines as I fail to see how opening a locker door to refill a refillable bottle via an inlet with nrv and very heavy duty hose all supplied by Gaslow Autogas or Gas-it is somehow more dangerous than filling it via a hole in the wall of the van? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Tracker - 2016-02-16 4:06 PM I really don't care for petty rules and I have no intention of cutting a hole in my van just to suit some arbritary guidlines as I fail to see how opening a locker door to refill a refillable bottle via an inlet supplied by Gs-it is somehow more dangerous than filling it via a hole in the wall of the van? I would guess that the regulation concerns the likelihood of LPG or gas finding it's way into the interior of the van should the gas locker not be perfectly sealed from the habitation area either by design or by movement or wear and tear during the life of the van. I'm not qualified to judge whether or not that would be petty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Steve928 - 2016-02-16 4:09 PM I would guess that the regulation concerns the likelihood of LPG or gas finding it's way into the interior of the van should the gas locker not be perfectly sealed from the habitation area either by design or by movement or wear and tear during the life of the van. I'm not qualified to judge whether or not that would be petty. Seeing that the gas locker has a mesh floor the sealing of the locker door seems kinda not relevant to me! As there are no ignition sources in or near the locker I would have thought that an open locker door would only increase not impede the dispersal of stray gas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKen1 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Tracker - 2016-02-16 4:36 PM BKen1 - 2016-02-16 3:12 PM What was the other one " If refillables are safe so is this method just pay attention when filling" Then why do normal Diesle and Petrol pumps have an over fill cut off ...safety on the forecourt....we all get distracted occasionally.People have to be protected from themselves sometimes as common sense seems to go out of the window. Sorry, but I don't see how you can fairly compare filling a measured quantity of gas into a sealed cylinder via a sealed inlet to pouring petrol into an open necked fuel tank filler via an open ended nozzle? Judging by the stains on the forecourts it seems I am not alone in having washed the side of my car with petrol at times and on that basis all fuel filling should only ever take place via a sealed and leakproof inlet?. Just my point even with safety cut off the public still manage to get petrol everywhere, no safety cut off you would be swimming in it . So its being advocated to use a gas system with out a safety feature who knows what could be the unforseen consequences. Over the years we have all seen practises that are to say the least dodgy that doent mean we would advocate them today...onward and upwards ...was my school moto. And as for refillable inlets in the cupboard ...well :$ I remember riding my motorbike without a helmet now I look back and think how stupid was that..you dont have to experience everthing to know it just does not make sense, ie falling off and crushing your skull (for SS ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 BKen1 - 2016-02-16 4:21 PM So its being advocated to use a gas system with out a safety feature who knows what could be the unforseen consequences. And as for refillable inlets in the cupboard You seem to have chosen to mis-understand - my refillable system does have a built in safety feature - an 80% cut off valve! It also has me closely watching all the joints for anything untoward whilst it fills at great pressure. I lack your expertise on the subject so please explain to me why you think that an inlet just inside an open door is any more dangerous than one via a hole in the panel where you cannot see and smell what is going on inside the locker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Tracker - 2016-02-16 4:33 PM .. so please explain to me why you think that an inlet just inside an open door is any more dangerous than one via a hole in the panel where you cannot see and smell what is going on inside the locker? He doesn't have to because there are regulations in place and it would be reasonable to assume that the people responsible for drawing up those regulations considered all the various factors. Society will break down if individuals start to choose which regulations and laws apply to them :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Steve928 - 2016-02-16 4:39 PM He doesn't have to because there are regulations in place and it would be reasonable to assume that the people responsible for drawing up those regulations considered all the various factors. Society will break down if individuals start to choose which regulations and laws apply to them Are you seriously suggesting that all regulations are always put in place by those who actually know what they are doing and not simply some beaureaucrat sat in an office guided by lobbying, vested interests and incomplete or inaccurate information? No doubt an expert will soon be along to explain the difference but as I understand it laws are not the same as regulations - but are you seriously suggesting that you have never knowingly broken any regulations! Sorry but nobody has yet come up with a sensible reason for me to cut a bloody great hole in the side of my van's gas locker door! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKen1 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Tracker - 2016-02-16 5:33 PM BKen1 - 2016-02-16 4:21 PM So its being advocated to use a gas system with out a safety feature who knows what could be the unforseen consequences. And as for refillable inlets in the cupboard You seem to have chosen to mis-understand - my refillable system does have a built in safety feature - an 80% cut off valve! It also has me closely watching all the joints for anything untoward whilst it fills at great pressure. I lack your expertise on the subject so please explain to me why you think that an inlet just inside an open door is any more dangerous than one via a hole in the panel where you cannot see and smell what is going on inside the locker? I was saying it was being advocated in general in the threads that non safe systems are ok not yours personnally .The Locker situation is in the Regs.you dont have to be an expert for that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevina Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Steve928 - 2016-02-16 3:51 PM Tracker - 2016-02-16 3:36 PM My refillable bottle inlet is just inside the gas locker Now while we're talking about what's legal and what isn't, how about we include the subject of in-locker filler points.. :-D BSEN 1949 NCC cop 306: The gas locker is outside the shell of the vehicle, so there is no problem having the filling connector in the gas locker as I, too, have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Tracker - 2016-02-16 4:06 PM Steve928 - 2016-02-16 3:51 PM Tracker - 2016-02-16 3:36 PM My refillable bottle inlet is just inside the gas locker Now while we're talking about what's legal and what isn't, how about we include the subject of in-locker filler points.. :-D BSEN 1949 NCC cop 306: I really don't care for petty rules and I have no intention of cutting a hole in my van just to suit some arbritary guidlines as I fail to see how opening a locker door to refill a refillable bottle via an inlet with nrv and very heavy duty hose all supplied by Gaslow Autogas or Gas-it is somehow more dangerous than filling it via a hole in the wall of the van? I bet you wouldn't give that advice if you were still wearing your insurance company hat, either in respect of policy conditions or the law! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 kevina - 2016-02-16 5:25 PM....................The gas locker is outside the shell of the vehicle, so there is no problem having the filling connector in the gas locker as I, too, have. You could of course make that argument, but are you sure it would be accepted, if push came to shove? Also, are you certain that your motorhome is representative of all motorhomes in this respect? I don't think what you say would apply to ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKen1 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Here we go ...this Reg doesnt apply to me because ...could end up as a A Frame Thread (lol) Brian K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Tracker - 2016-02-16 4:48 PM........................Are you seriously suggesting that all regulations are always put in place by those who actually know what they are doing and not simply some beaureaucrat sat in an office guided by lobbying, vested interests and incomplete or inaccurate information?.............. I think you're being a bit rash, here, Rich. It is very likely that those regulations were written by someone with great knowledge of his field. His problem will have been trying to write a reasonably brief and clear set of regulations that capture all the risks he could foresee. No regulation can ever fit every individual case. The people who make decisions as to how they should be interpreted are supposed also to be experts in the relevant field, not just anyone who doesn't like the regulation. As said above, they are there for reason. You are right that breaching a regulation may not carry the same penalties as breaking a law, but anyone knowingly breaking a regulation and so causing damage, injury or loss of life, would almost certainly risk prosecution. Beside all of which, many regulations, (The Construction and use Regulations for example, but any number of others), are issued by a minister under powers he is given in an enabling act of parliament, and have the full force of law. Try telling a copper that you don't comply with them because they were "written by some bureaucrat sat in an office guided by lobbying, vested interests and incomplete or inaccurate information" - and then see what he says next! Hmmmmmm! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Would one of you experts now kindly explain to me why all the major refillable suppliers supply angled brackets designed to fit neatly inside a gas locker without any reference to any breach of regulations? http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/cyujrhdmmu67.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/cyujrhdmmu67/Products/01-4160 Interestingly Gaslow make no reference to the UK regulations? http://www.gasit.co.uk/leisure-gas-refillable-products/5-fill-points-brackets-and-lids/angled-fill-point-bracket.html Gasit do not specifically mention any breach of regulations. http://www.sailandtrail.co.uk/gas-it-in-locker-bracket-lpg-filling-system.html And these people positively endorse it! http://www.dicklanemotorhomes.co.uk/pdfs/gaslow-filling-instructions.pdf As do these! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevina Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 It's common sense to understand that most coachbuilt motorhomes gas lockers are external to the vehicle or else the bottles themselves would be deemed to be inside the vehicle, which they are clearly not. It therefore follows that a filling connection located in such a gas locker is also external to the vehicle. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 BSEN 1949 NCC cop 306: Can't find the definitive but this draft appears to be a code of practise, not a regulation, that applies to externally mounted gas tanks and not to refillable gas bottles ina ventialted locker and in that context 4.2 does make for very good common sense not to have a filler in the the van's interior! Not yet found any specific cop or regulations governing refillable gas bottles in ventilated lockers. http://www.thencc.org.uk/downloads/Fixed_lpg_tanks_CoP_DRAFT_2_consultation.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasnt Me Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 I take it the general consensus is no then? (?) ;-) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKen1 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Getting back to the OP request here is a bit more info from 2011 on adaptors http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/LPG-bottle-filling-adaptor/23308/ Brian K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasnt Me Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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