Meatpiemassive Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Hi all, we had our MH in storage for 2 months went to collect it for valentines weekend to find we had mice droppings all inside cupboards etc, anyway on trying to find where there nest(s) were I thought I had found it under the near side back end in the corner, how wrong was I, it was all rotting wet wood sagging down like pieces of bark which is obviously our kitchen cupboards (where the sink is) Has anybody any ideas as to why this would happen and do you know how this could be fixed, I have only owned this van for 4 months and I don't know anything about them. I would be very grateful for any advice. Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Meatpiemassive - 2016-02-15 7:11 PM Has anybody any ideas as to why this would happen and do you know how this could be fixed, I have only owned this van for 4 months and I don't know anything about them. I would be very grateful for any advice. Many thanks Unfortunately this sounds like a major welding job as part of the floorpan has obviously disappeared. You need to get the van into a Garage so they can have a good look at the underside. I suspect there may well be more rot elsewhere and if repairable, it may involve removal of all internal wood fittings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I have owned several A/S GRP one piece monocoque vans over the years and the one thing they have all had in common has been no water leaks so in that respect you seems to be desperately unlucky. If you bought the van from a dealer did you get a warranty, or a habitation check certificate as that kind of damage does not happen over one winter, especially on a van like yours which, as I recall, is built upon a heavy duty thick plywood base. You could take some photos and contact the A/S factory for some advice as their expertise is second to none and they do have an excellent repair facility, but as with all things motorhome cheap it most certainly will not be as it is a very labour intensive and time consuming repair process. If you are a good diyer and capable of some lateral thinking you might be able to cut out all the rot and rebuild it yourself as at least the outer shell will remain intact, as hopefully will the chassis and extensions, and it is likely that most if not all parts will still be available from A/S should you need them. My first suspicion would be a water leak from either the water supply to the sink or from a split waste pipe given the location, but if that is not the culprit you may have to look further afield as water tends to travel downhill to the lowest point and if the van were parked with that corner lower it could have come from the shower (split tray), sink waste, or even a poorly sealed window or skylight. Quite a lot of investigating to do before you can be sure you have the cause, but whatever it is it has been doing it for a long time so the water trail should be traceable. I would remove the waste water tank to trace how far the rot extends and a cheap but effective plywood rot test is a sharply pointed screwdriver shoved into the wood. Is your van carpeted inside, in which case any wet or stained areas that might give you a clue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatpiemassive Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 Hi guys thanks for your replies, I have spoken to Mark today at Willersey and he seemed rather baffled by it as they are made from marine ply and fibreglass I have sent him some pictures of it all and he is going to get back to me, I will let you know the outcome Many thanks :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Meatpiemassive - 2016-02-16 5:49 PM Hi guys thanks for your replies, I have spoken to Mark today at Willersey and he seemed rather baffled by it as they are made from marine ply and fibreglass I have sent him some pictures of it all and he is going to get back to me, I will let you know the outcome Many thanks :-) I thought it was marine ply but was not sure enough to say so! The floor is also securely bonded to the GRP body and bolted to the chassis with the underside heavily protected by a sort of rubberised coating to prevent upward water ingress or rot. Posting pictures on here can be next to impossible at times but if you can get them small enough it might work for you as I for one would be very interested in seeing the damage. I'm no expert but I do know and love these GRP bodied vans having owned a variety since 1986 to date, although to be fair never one more than about 12 years old it must be said, and I too am rather surprised at your problem - not that I dis-blieve you I hasten to add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 I had a Talisman, a 1988 version on a Talbot chassis. When I cut out the rotten fitted carpet, I had to scrape the foam carpet backing that had stuck to the floor, I had to get every trace off because I relaid woodgrain self adheshive vinyl strips (as in a parquet floor!) I can attest that the floor, certainly most of it where the carpet was laid, was fibreglass moulded onto marine ply, and very solid and rot proof (if only the Talbot had been made of the same material !!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatpiemassive Posted February 17, 2016 Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 Hi guys just tried to upload photo but it won't let me, it's saying it's too big is there any where I could download to so you can view them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gocro Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 One way is to email them to yourself selecting smallest when you are asked to re=size, hopefully less than the 100kb required Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonaldson Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Hi guys just reading your post here and I'm a little confused. My Kontiki 65oZ has an insulated floor comprising of foam board inner and ply sheet either side. Delamination comes to mind and this was spoken about many times years ago. So I take it the newer vans have just a plain marine ply floor now with flooring covering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 gordonaldson - 2016-02-17 9:02 PM Hi guys just reading your post here and I'm a little confused. My Kontiki 65oZ has an insulated floor comprising of foam board inner and ply sheet either side. Delamination comes to mind and this was spoken about many times years ago. So I take it the newer vans have just a plain marine ply floor now with flooring covering. No Gordon, we are talking specifically about Autosleeper Monocoque manufactured motor homes, The Executive,The Talisman and the Legend. None presently made, (more is the pity), the rear body and floor assy was all one moulding, hence monocoque. VERY Strong and usually very durable, but also expensive to manufacture. Present day Autosleeper's are now made the same way as other manufacturers. They did make a special edition of Anniversary Executives, made in the traditional way, and Tracker has one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 My Medallion has the same layout as the Executive. The two most likely sources for the damp are ( A) and by the far most likely is leaking plumbing under the sink. Either the water supply or the drain. The connections to the taps are getting old and the tiny O rings harden. As long as the external woodwork of the cabinets is still sound the rest is rebuildable (B) the rear window sealant has failed careful examination might find a trail of damp The great worry is if the rot has spread into the thick ply/foam/ ply baseboard as repairs to this can be more complex but not impossible. If it were mine I would clear out as much of the rot as possible and obtain a de humidifier and get the area as dry as possible. Trace the drainage for leaks first by pouring water down and looking for drips. If nothing found put some fresh water in the tank and turn on the pump and check the supplies.to the taps. I find wiping things as dry as possible with kitchen paper helps and toilet paper shows tiny drips well. Once things are watertight its time to either test your carpentry skills or find someone who has them. If You PM me I can e mail some pics and further suggestions one of which is if there is trouble in the floor is take off the rear bumper to get access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Rayjsj - 2016-02-17 9:23 PM They did make a special edition of Anniversary Executives, made in the traditional way, and Tracker has one. My pride and joy Ray - parked alongside the canal near the Keukenhof Gardens!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Weak springs on the offside or you need some levellers :-D Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Fixed the springs for you tracker.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Thanks Jon - maybe we should take you with us as official leveller! Combination of camera angle and settlement after parking made it look worse than it was, however I did move it a bit before snuggling down for the night and whilst not spot on level - when is it ever without faffing about with ramps etc - it was excellent given the quiet and pleasant location, and minimal cost! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 One of the few vans made recently, that will require a wrecking ball to break up the habitation area, when the Fiat Ducato/Peugeot bit has finally died in 20 or 30 years time. (Or longer ?) Sorry George, I forgot about the VW LT monocoques , when naming them, the Medallion of course.Another long lived William Towns designed classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatpiemassive Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 can you see the picture ok, what do you think ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Sorry can't figure it out. I think at 12.5kb you may have made it too small! See if you can get it back up to around 40 to 80 kb! Have you emailed any original size photos to Autosleeper and if so what have they said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatpiemassive Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 Mrs Bruce, thank you for the photographs. I have shown our senior technician and together we are still confused on what could have happened, neither of us have seen this before on this type of vehicle. The structure of the floor is marine ply with the top coated with fibreglass and the underneath treated to stop damp. It looks as though there may be a gap somewhere in the upper fibreglass that has let water into the ply which over time has gotten between the laminates to break them down. How much of the history of the vehicle do you know? The reason why I am asking is that it would have left the factory with carpet throughout and no vinyl. Has the vehicle had any repairs carried out on that corner where the coating of the floor could have been compromised to allow water into the laminates? The only way that we can find out what has happened is to see the vehicle so we can investigate further for you. Sorry that I can not give you any answers yet. Kind regards Mark Burdett. I am still trying to make picture bigger!!!!! :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 What Mark says makes perfect sense to me too and, having worked with marine ply on boats I agree that proper marine ply sheathed with grp should be pretty resilient to water damage? That said if it gets really wet and stays really wet it will eventually de-laminate and crumble away. Did you buy the van from a dealer, if so now would be a good time to ask them if they are prepared to help as this sort of damage does not happen overnight and almost certainly would have been present albeit maybe to a lesser degree when you bought the van. For heaven's sake be polite and not too demanding though, at least initially! If they carried out any sort of inspection or PDI it should have been spotted and rectified prior to sale to make the goods of merchantable quality. Do you have any warranty with it? Not much help to you now I know, but we always look in every corner, crevice, cupboard and dark hole that we can before we buy any van as well as a quick visual underneath, usually on a ramp and I have never had a dealer refuse that. If the original carpet had been removed and vinyl put in it's place was that done in the cupboards too and does it look professional or amateur diy? If so maybe it was done by an earlier owner to disguise the damage prior to trading it in? I guess we will never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Marine-grade plywood should use waterproof adhesive to glue the plies together and have no ‘voids’ in the plywood’s interior. It is rot-resistant but definitely not rot-proof. The response from Auto-Sleepers was “The structure of the floor is marine ply with the top coated with fibreglass and the underneath treated to stop damp.” Nowadays it’s commonplace for the underside of motorhome wooden floors to have a polyester layer, as it’s the underside that’s constantly exposed to water and debris. Although Auto-Sleepers GRP monocoque bodies have an indefinite lifespan, it would be unrealistic to believe the wooden floor will last forever or that potentially damaging water leaks can’t happen. http://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t2812-executive-wet-floor-water-ingress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I've never had a poke about under one of these, so I've no idea what they consist of...but IF these are a one-piece fibreglass outer shell, where's this "rotting wet wood sagging down" from?.... :-S ..and where's this marine ply floor? Presumably it's bonded, "inboard"? if so, again, how would it "sag" underneath ? (Surely this "shell" doesn't just sit on an external ply panel? :-S ) Is the OP just referring to portions of the cabinet work? (..which, as has been said, may've been damaged by a plumbing or window/aperture leak?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 pepe63 - 2016-02-19 10:12 AM ..and where's this marine ply floor? Presumably it's "inboard"? if so, again, how would it "sag"? (Surely this "shell" doesn't just sit on an external ply planel? :-S ) The habitation body is made of a one piece grp moulding - just like an upside down boat would look. The marine ply floor sections are then shaped to fit exactly inside the body and the whole thing is bonded and sealed to together to make a very strong, and hopefully watertight, monocoque type shell consisting of a grp body bonded to a marine ply floor. The whole body is then lifted and craned in place to be bolted onto the chassis,and bonded between the cut away steel cab and the grp bodyshell and then all the furnishings and fittings are built into it in much the same way that a panel van is fitted out. That's why they are expensive and generally very durable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Tracker - 2016-02-19 10:21 AM The habitation body is made of a one piece grp moulding - just like an upside down boat would look. The marine ply floor sections are then shaped to fit exactly inside the body and the whole thing is bonded and sealed to together to make a very strong, and hopefully watertight, monocoque type shell consisting of a grp body bonded to a marine ply floor. Thanks Rich. Yes, that's how I'd always pictured them... So hopefully this "rotten wood" that's "sagging down", is just limited to the cabinet work then... ...hopefully...... :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 pepe63 - 2016-02-19 11:12 AM ...So hopefully this "rotten wood" that's "sagging down", is just limited to the cabinet work then... The title of the original inquiry here was “Rotten wood underneath MH”. The title of the same inquiry on the ASOF was “Rotten wood floor underneath motorhome” http://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t16847-rotten-wood-floor-underneath-mh It seems from this that it’s the floor that is rotten and sagging down UNDER the motorhome, not just damaged internal cabinet work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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