HymerVan Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 What is it reasonable to expect as the lifespan of a M/H vehicle (not habitation) battery properly maintained ?
colin Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 I usually recon on any original vehicle battery lasting at least 10 years.
EJB Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 My last 'sealed for life' one lasted at least 8 years!
Guest pelmetman Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Mines 9 years old, and it nearly let me down last week 8-) .......Although we hadn't moved for a month and I'd also knocked the headlights on by mistake a couple of weeks ago *-) .......But Horace fired up after leaving him for 10 mins...... Now all seems fine again after a 3 hour run.....hopefully :-S .... as I'm told batteries are very expensive in Spain :D .......
StuartO Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 My MH's starter battery lasted seven or eight years, I can't remember which, but I thought this was better than should ordinarily be expected, largely because when not in use the MH lived in a garage on an EHU, so the starter battery was being maintained at full charge. When it did die on me it did so suddenly and completely one morning abroad but I was able to replace it easily enough. I always used to think that four years was as much as you could expect from a car starter battery and anything beyond that was a bonus. Of course batteries have got better (providing you buy a good one) so maybe an expectation of more than four years is not unreasonable. I bought a three year old used car recently which, when we came to test drive it, had a battery which had gone flat on the forecourt. By the following day the battery had been charged (I don't know how or for how long) and it has been OK ever since. The car went through the workshop before I collected it and the battery was said to have been tested and passed - so I accepted that, even though privately I anticipated having to replace the battery pretty soon. Three weeks later with no further extra charging and with a number of early cold starts, the battery is still performing normally so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I regard batteries as affordable consumer ingredients, which is why I felt I'd already haggled enough rather than dig my heels in for a new battery when I was striking the deal for the car.
747 Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Fiat Ducato Cab assembled in 2002. Motorhome (52 reg) sold in 2014 with the original Italian made battery still working as normal. Magneto Marelli I think was the maker.
HymerVan Posted February 23, 2016 Author Posted February 23, 2016 Thanks. These responses are what I hoped for and I would be very happy if I got six or seven years. I have not kept a van that long although my last car was 8 years old when changed and had original battery. Van battery is dead today but may be OK after jump-starting and a good run. Van if 4 years old soon. It is kept in a secure compound so bench charging is not an option.
aandncaravan Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 We would expect an original fit Starter battery to last longer than 4 years, so long as it has never gone flat which would obviously shorten it's life. 8 years is typical. Aftermarket ones tend to have a life of half that. So if this was quite sudden, and the battery has never run flat before, we would suggest you make doubly sure it is the battery by checking the battery voltage? It could just as easily be a poor connection/Earth? Can we suggest you don't jump start it : 1. Because of the risk to the electronics. 2. A modern Motorhome Alternator can throw out a heck of a charge to a dead Starter battery, most will have their life severely shortened. Some will not survive such a fast charge. Use the habitation battery to start the van (so long as it isn't Gel) by swapping them around then limit the charging current to the old 'dead' Starter battery by putting on Heater Blower, Headlights, etc. Try and monitor the charge at the display to limit the current going into the Habitation battery to no more than 20amps until you get the vehicle home and can put it on a bench charger. Do not connect EHU with a very low battery, most Motorhome chargers are not designed for this, they will just Pop. Put it on a Car charger overnight. If the Starter battery proves to be a dud, suggest you replace it with a quality Dual purpose Starter/Habitation battery that works well in both roles?
HymerVan Posted February 24, 2016 Author Posted February 24, 2016 Allan Thanks for such a detailed reply. The vehicle lives in secure storage and normally I check the vehicle fortnightly and take it for a run at least monthly and over past winters this has been sufficient to keep the battery OK. However the combination of visiting slightly less frequently and some very cold days has exacerbated the problem. The hab battery is a 230ah Energy Bull so its too big and heavy to move. It has been kept fully charged by the solar. I also had a solar and on my last van the batteries were cross connected by a batterymaster which worked very well. I asked Van Bitz to fit a B/M to this van when they fitted the alarm and to their credit they said that on test there was no discernible voltage difference between the batteries. They said that although they didn't understand why this was the case they seemed to be connected so no point in the B/M. Mystery ? Another poster here suggested that some Fifers have an Amperor Integrator fitted. I am not sure if as a subsidiary function the integrator acts like a B/M bu the hap is fully charged and the vehicle battery flat. I will check the voltage and possibly try to take it out and bench charge it. I have a 'sophisticated" charger in the garage.
Rayjsj Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 Question, to those with more Battery knowledge than me. Is the water collected from a De-Humidifier pure enough to be added to a battery as distilled water ? Pre- bottled distilled water is very expensive per litre, and in the Winter the De-Humidifier is producing gallons of the stuff, BUT I don't want to damage my Batteries either. The De-humidifier container is plastic ,not metal, the condenser is alloy. Distilled water is expensive when bought by the litre, but new batteries are more expensive.thanks in advance.
Tracker Posted February 24, 2016 Posted February 24, 2016 I don't know Ray but what I have always used is double boiled tap water, as taught by my dear old Dad many years ago! Boil it once let it go cold then boil it again and when cold filter it through a coffee maker filter into a clean bottle. Then again if you had a bit more rain in Pembs you could always try boiled and filtered rainwater!
groucho Posted February 27, 2016 Posted February 27, 2016 Here's how I charge a starter battery when there's no access to a mains supply. I have a spare 80Ah car battery. At home I charge it up using a CTEK MS5 intelligent charger. Then I take the spare battery to the van and clip on a 150 watt pure sine wave inverter, which generates mains power. I then connect the CTEK charger output to the van battery, and plug its input into the inverter. In your situation you might not need the spare battery to transport the charging energy. You could clip the inverter to your hab battery, connect the charger, then attach the charger output to the starter battery. There's no need to isolate the starter battery if you use an intelligent charger like a CTEK. It normally takes two or three repeats to fully charge a 110Ah starter battery from my 80Ah spare battery. In your case the 230Ah hab battery would do the job in one go, I'm sure.
Brambles Posted February 27, 2016 Posted February 27, 2016 Rayjsj - 2016-02-24 11:56 AM Question, to those with more Battery knowledge than me. Is the water collected from a De-Humidifier pure enough to be added to a battery as distilled water ? Pre- bottled distilled water is very expensive per litre, and in the Winter the De-Humidifier is producing gallons of the stuff, BUT I don't want to damage my Batteries either. The De-humidifier container is plastic ,not metal, the condenser is alloy. Distilled water is expensive when bought by the litre, but new batteries are more expensive.thanks in advance. Simple answer -- NO, not unless you then filter it and de-ionise it to get all the dust out of it and the absorbed metal ions from the cooling fins and tubes. Probably contains loads of bacteria as well.
Brambles Posted February 27, 2016 Posted February 27, 2016 Tracker - 2016-02-24 12:01 PM I don't know Ray but what I have always used is double boiled tap water, as taught by my dear old Dad many years ago! Boil it once let it go cold then boil it again and when cold filter it through a coffee maker filter into a clean bottle. Then again if you had a bit more rain in Pembs you could always try boiled and filtered rainwater! You are joking aren't you Tracker? Boiled water will have very much less of many chemicals such as chlorine but metal ions will increase and that is a killer for a battery. ..and loads of calcium in the water so battery plates get coated in Calcium Sulphate sealing them off from the world.
EJB Posted February 27, 2016 Posted February 27, 2016 Distilled water is not very expensive!!!!!!! *-)
Keithl Posted February 27, 2016 Posted February 27, 2016 EJB - 2016-02-27 12:04 PM Distilled water is not very expensive!!!!!!! *-) Totally agree!!! £3.50 for 5 litres in Halfords... http://www.halfords.com/motoring/bulbs-blades-batteries/car-battery-chargers/halfords-battery-top-up-water-5l Why ruin a very expensive battery for the sake of a few coppers? Keith.
Derek Uzzell Posted February 27, 2016 Posted February 27, 2016 HymerVan - 2016-02-24 7:54 AM Allan Thanks for such a detailed reply. The vehicle lives in secure storage and normally I check the vehicle fortnightly and take it for a run at least monthly and over past winters this has been sufficient to keep the battery OK. However the combination of visiting slightly less frequently and some very cold days has exacerbated the problem. The hab battery is a 230ah Energy Bull so its too big and heavy to move. It has been kept fully charged by the solar. I also had a solar and on my last van the batteries were cross connected by a batterymaster which worked very well. I asked Van Bitz to fit a B/M to this van when they fitted the alarm and to their credit they said that on test there was no discernible voltage difference between the batteries. They said that although they didn't understand why this was the case they seemed to be connected so no point in the B/M. Mystery ? Another poster here suggested that some Fifers have an Amperor Integrator fitted. I am not sure if as a subsidiary function the integrator acts like a B/M bu the hap is fully charged and the vehicle battery flat. I will check the voltage and possibly try to take it out and bench charge it. I have a 'sophisticated" charger in the garage. I can’t see an Amperor Power Integrator http://www.amperorassociates.co.uk/c-DC_power_supplies/PowerS-PI.html having any obvious negative impact on your motorhome’s starter-battery. It is (perhaps) worth saying that - if your East Neuk motorhome is Citroen-based - its starter-battery may have a relatively low CCA. This might not much matter for us ’southerners’, but North Scotland is another matter! Given where you live and how your motorhome is stored, even if you can revive the starter-battery apparently satisfactorily, I suspect the problem will reoccur in cold weather conditions unless you can recharge the starter-battery more regularly. You might be wise to replace the battery now rather than later and I think this one would (just) fit http://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/automotive/silver-dynamic/610-402-092
HymerVan Posted February 27, 2016 Author Posted February 27, 2016 Derek As always you have carried out meticulous research and you have raised a few interesting points and I will comment on yours by way of interlineation. I can’t see an Amperor Power Integrator http://www.amperorassociates.co.uk/c-DC_power_supplies/PowerS-PI.html having any obvious negative impact on your motorhome’s starter-battery. I can see the integrator not having a negative effect but did wonder about it having a positive effect(pun not intended) by cross connecting the batteries perhaps in the same sort of way as a Battery-Master which as ,mentioned I successfully used on my last van (see my comments about Van Bitz discovering that there was no voltage difference between the two batteries leading them to conclude that there was already a cross connection of some sort). The fact that the battery has gone flat probably suggests that there is no “batterymaster effect” after all which is a shame because the solar has kept the leisure battery fully charged over the winter. It is (perhaps) worth saying that - if your East Neuk motorhome is Citroen-based - its starter-battery may have a relatively low CCA. This might not much matter for us ’southerners’, but North Scotland is another matter! The Citroen handbook gives no spec for the original battery on my van so I contacted our local Citroen Dealer “Arnold Clark motor group, which has received the Automotive Management Retailer of the Year award in 2012, 2013 and 2014” They quoted £197 to supply a replacement battery but were unable to provide any information about the make dimensions or capacity of the product they were offering to sell me.I asked them how they would be able to identify the sale product at the point of sale and was told “there is no information on our system except a parts serial number” This is the second surreal and almost unbelievable experience which I have had with this prestigious and revered organisation. Given where you live and how your motorhome is stored, even if you can revive the starter-battery apparently satisfactorily, I suspect the problem will reoccur in cold weather conditions unless you can recharge the starter-battery more regularly. Yes I will make a greater effort to keep on top of battery maintenance. It was not only very cold on the day the vehicle wouldn’t start but also had been very cold (-5 overnight for several days) You might be wise to replace the battery now rather than later and I think this one would (just) fit In fact I looked at a Yasua Battery HSB0120 of very similar spec and dimensions to the Varta you suggest and with a five year guarantee. Having decided to replace the battery and therefore to take the risks inherent in jump starting the battery I went to Halfords today asking them to supply and fit such a battery but to do a test on old battery first. Contrary to my expectations the battery passed and is (in theory ) fine albeit the test also confirmed the modest (680A) rating of the battery. Having put my C-TEK charger on the battery all day it seems to be fine. It won’t surprise me if I do indeed replace the battery fairly soon and I will be keeping a close eye on it.
Derek Uzzell Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 This earlier forum thread http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Peugeot-Boxer-cab-battery-recall-/38092/ discussed ‘under powered’ CCA 680A batteries being fitted to Peugeot Boxer vehicles. It’s not directly relevant in your case, but it seems to confirm that a 110Ah CCA 950A starter-battery with dimensions of 394mm(Length) x 175mm(Width) x 190mm(Height) should fit into your motorhome’s under-floor battery compartment. I think this is the Yuasa product that equates dimensionally to the Varta Silver Dynamic battery I mentioned. http://thebatteryshop.co.uk/yuasa-12v-110ah-900a-silver-car-battery-ybx5020-x28hsb020x29-8572-p.asp I’ve no idea if the Yuasa is superior to the Varta, but the latter is likely to be less expensive (I note that Halfords on-line price for a Yuasa HSB020 is £159) https://www.tayna.co.uk/610-200-Varta-Silver-Dynamic-Car-Battery-020-Short-Code-I1-Varta-DIN-610-402-092--P3200.html and the Varta Silver Dynamic range has had ‘good press’ on this forum.
HymerVan Posted February 28, 2016 Author Posted February 28, 2016 I was aware of the previous "notification" of under-powered battered on Peugeot Boxers. Last year I visited Dave Newell to do so minor work on my van and incidentally asked about the 680ah battery "recall". He was quite clear that the "recall" related only to a batch of Bailley motorhomes. When Bailley originally started building M/H my own local dealer told be that for reasons of production line simplification they built all their motorhomes on a standard Alko chassis cab supplied by Peugeot to their specification. Looks like a battery upgrade was/should have been part of that specification. Anyway it does seem clear that the battery I have is marginal for winter use. The test done yesterday confirmed the CCA rating of 680 and the actual at 653. My van of course started life as a standard unconverted panel van and the battery is no doubt standard for that even though Citroen and Arnold Clark are coy about disclosing the specification. I may take the opportunity to pick up a Varta when on my travels. Its a lot cheaper. Thanks again for your input
Tracker Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 HymerVan - 2016-02-27 5:00 PM I went to Halfords today asking them to supply and fit such a battery but to do a test on old battery first. Contrary to my expectations the battery passed and is (in theory ) fine albeit the test also confirmed the modest (680A) rating of the battery. Having put my C-TEK charger on the battery all day it seems to be fine. It won’t surprise me if I do indeed replace the battery fairly soon and I will be keeping a close eye on it. If the battery is sound it suggests that the earth strap perhaps is not sound and worthy of replacing or supplementing?
aandncaravan Posted February 28, 2016 Posted February 28, 2016 653 CCA on a 680 CCA battery is a decent figure, even for a very cold day? As we said above, if this has happened suddenly, check for a poor connection/earth issue. See the "Failed Starter Motor, Battery and Alternator" thread from yesterday for more info and a link on how to tackle it for less than a tenner.
HymerVan Posted February 29, 2016 Author Posted February 29, 2016 Failed battery Battery with inadequate capacity Failure to keep battery charged regularly Design/execution fault on earth strap None of the above. This thread has been useful and interesting insofar as it has rehearsed a number of options and possibilities. Thanks again for all contributions especially professional ones. I will post an update albeit whether it is days months or even years away remains to be seen.
HymerVan Posted April 20, 2016 Author Posted April 20, 2016 I promised an update in February and here it is. The (vehicle) battery seems to have not only survived its freezing encounter with the grim reaper of batteries but appears now to be in very good health. I will try to keep on top of its charging needs next winter.
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