Radio Wiring

[Campfos]

I have a 2014 Sunlight T66 on a fiat Ducato chassis.

Now when I bought it there was no radio fitted so I got the dealers auto electrician to fit my Dab unit out of my old motorhome as it was just a few months old.

Now this only works when the ignition is on so when you are stopped no radio.

i all other vehicles I have used / owned the radios all work on the first position on the ignition switch.

Can this be done and does anyone know where I can get a wiring diagram for this change.

 

Campbell

[aandncaravan]

You should find a live supply for the first Ignition switch position behind the radio in the existing wiring?

 

 

Please be aware most 'after market' Stereos can have a significant standby current that can take a Starter battery down flat in about 3 weeks?

They are normally aimed at the Car market where the vehicle is used every day so a small permanent current draw is not an issue.

 

This especially applies to Stereos with a remote control, as this is permanently powered 'watching' for a signal from the remote. Same applies to some stereos that use permanent power to save radio station settings, etc.

If you fit one of these types of stereo either wire all live feeds from the Ignition or have a separate switched supply for the Remote/memory save circuits.

 

Motorhome optimised stereos usually have zero power draw when the ignition is off.

 

 

[Rayjsj]

You could take a live feed from the cigarette lighter feed, that works from 1st position of ignition switch.But wouldn't it be better to take a feed from your leisure battery ? That way the radio doesn't switch off after 20 minutes, of course you have to remember to switch it off, and for storage a remote power off switch should stop it from flattening your leisure battery with its low standby drain.

[Russellnpod]

I put in a feed from the leisure battery via an illuminated rocker switch. This means I don't worry about running the starter battery flat while parked up. Of course I do have to remember to switch it on and off, but the silence, and/or the light help with that

[keninpalamos]

You could swop the red and yellow wires over on the radio harness. These two wires usually have connections so you are able to do this. One wire is constant and the other is from the ignition switch. This is how my radio is wired and most after market radio fitting instructions explain this. My unit has a remote as well. If you don't use your 'van much buy a small portable fold away solar panel to keep the starter battery topped up. They are not expensive, well not as expensive as a Motorhome optimised radio.

[Derek Uzzell]

Rayjsj - 2016-02-28 11:52 AM

 

You could take a live feed from the cigarette lighter feed, that works from 1st position of ignition switch...

 

Wouldn’t that result in exactly what Campbell is complaining about - that the radio would only be operable when the vehicle’s ignition is switched on?

[Keithl]

Derek Uzzell - 2016-02-29 8:47 AM

 

Rayjsj - 2016-02-28 11:52 AM

 

You could take a live feed from the cigarette lighter feed, that works from 1st position of ignition switch...

 

Wouldn’t that result in exactly what Campbell is complaining about - that the radio would only be operable when the vehicle’s ignition is switched on?

 

No. He appears to be complaining that the ignition must be FULLY on for the radio to work and that he wants it to work in position 1 as Ray has suggested.

Read his OP here...

 

Campfos - 2016-02-27 8:44 PM

 

I have a 2014 Sunlight T66 on a fiat Ducato chassis.

 

Now this only works when the ignition is on so when you are stopped no radio.

i all other vehicles I have used / owned the radios all work on the first position on the ignition switch.

Can this be done and does anyone know where I can get a wiring diagram for this change.

 

Campbell

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Keith

 

The ignition-switch of modern Ducatos has 3 positions:

 

STOP: engine off, key extractable, steering locked. Some electrical devices (e.g. sound system, central door locking system, etc.) can operate.

 

MAR-ON: driving position. All electrical devices are enabled.

 

AVV: engine starting (unstable position).

 

Campbell complains that his radio now only operates when the ignition-switch is turned to the MAR-ON position (when the vehicle’s ignition system is enabled), rather than the radio operating when the ignition-key is in the switch’s STOP position (or the key has been removed from the switch) as would happen when a radio is Fiat-factory-installed.

 

Ray suggested that a live feed could be taken from the vehicle’s cigarette-lighter feed, but the cigarette lighter is ‘dead’ when the Ducato’s ignition-key is in the switch’s STOP position (or the key has been removed from tthe switch). This is clearly stated in the Ducato Owner Handbook

 

"CIGAR LIGHTER

It is located in the centre of the dashboard. Press button on the cigarette lighter to switch it on when the ignition key is turned to MAR-ON. After about 15 seconds the button will return to its original position automatically and the cigar lighter is ready for use. IMPORTANT Always check that the cigar lighter has switched off.”

 

It’s pot-luck whether 12V sockets in a vehicle will be ‘live’ or ‘dead’ when the ignition-key is in the ignition-off position or the key removed. My 2009 Skoda car’s 12V sockets are permanently ‘live’, but my 2015 Ducato’s dashboard 12V sockets remain ‘dead’ until the ignition-key is inserted and turned to the MAR-ON position.

 

As Allan (aandncaravan) advises, there ought to be a live 12V supply behind the dashboard that would have provided 12V power to an OE (Original Equipment) sound system and this could be (and should have been) exploited to power Campbell’s DAB radio.

 

[Keithl]

Thanks Derek, I understand now.

 

Basically a cost cutting exercise on the part of F!at to have no 'Accessories' position.

 

Keith.

[Derek Uzzell]

Apparently a 3-position ignition switch was introduced on Ducato with the X250 model.

 

The preceding Ducato had a 4-position switch with a PARK position prior to the STOP position. The switch carried a button that needed to be pressed to permit the ignition-key to be moved to the PARK position. The key could then be removed leaving the engine off, the steering column locked and the parking lights on.

 

I’ve no idea how many current vehicles have 3-position switches or 4-position switches. My 2009 Skoda car’s switch is 3-position and its cigarette-lighter is operable witout the ignition-key being in the ignition-switch (which is probably not the greatest of ideas safety-wise).

 

The current Transit has a 4-position ignitiion-switch and Ford’s advice is as follows:

 

"0(off) - The ignition is off. Note:When you switch the ignition off and leave your vehicle, do not leave your key in the ignition. This could cause your vehicle battery to lose charge.

 

I (accessory) - Allows the electrical accessories such as the radio to operate while the engine is not running. Note: Do not leave the ignition key in position I or II (without the engine running) for too long to avoid vehicle battery losing charge.

 

II (on) - All electrical circuits operational. Warning lamps and indicators are illuminated.

 

III (start) - cranks the engine. Release the key as soon as the engine starts.”

 

Cost-cutting won’t be an issue where a 3-position ignition-switch is fitted - it’s just that the vehicle’s designer has chosen to employ that particular logical approach. If one is used to a 4-position switch with an Accessories position (as my previous Transit-based Hobby motorhome had) it can be irritating initially to find that dashboard 12V sockets that could be utilised/exploited without the ignition being on no longer can (as is the case with my Ducato) but it’s hardly a life-threatening problem.

 

When I was in my late-teens I owned two motorbikes simultaneously - an AJS 600cc and a BMW 600cc. The AJS’s rear brake pedal was on the left and the gear-selection pedal on the right. The BMW’s rear brake pedal was on the right and the gear-selection pedal on the left. On the AJS moving the gear-pedal downwards selected the higher gears, but the the opposite was true for the BMW. That could be fun when it was necessary to stop quickly...

[Campfos]

Thanks for all the answers I understand it now.

 

Best regards

Campbell

[Alanb]

My Fiat Ducato based PVC dates from 2006, and the radio of JVC manufacture was fitted by the converter.

 

From new the radio could be used without turning on the ignition (accessories).

 

When about two metres of wire descended onto the cab floor while travelling to the first service, I considered it a safety issue and investigated. The wire was found to be a connection applying Battery +ve to the radio ACC +ve connection, thus allowing the operation of the radio without using the ignition key.

 

I have no idea why a total length of 3.3 metres of cable was fitted, as no additional wiring was required to achieve the desired connection.

 

Behind the radio I found red and yellow wires with 3.9mm Japanese style bullet connectors. The live end of red wire had two female connectors and would allow both the red and yellow male connectors from the radio without the spurious length of wire. Much better.

 

All this set me thinking, and thought that it would be useful to be able switch the radio from the rear of the van. I ran a 3 core cable to my chosen position and initially fitted a switch with a pilot lamp. Close to the radio I managed to fit a micro changeover relay. The coil of this relay terminal (86) was connected to the yellow ACC +ve wire, with terminal 85 being connected to a suitable earth. The common terminal of the relay, terminal 30, was connected to the radio yellow wire (ACC connection), the normally closed (NO) terrninal 87 of the relay was connected to the B+ve supply, and the NC terminal 87a of the relay was connected to the common point of my new switch. The live side of the switch was also connected to the B+ve supply.. The switch indicator light was connected to earth (chassis).

 

This modification allows the radio to be used independently of the ignition key with the extra switch ON, but to be controlled by the ignition key with the new switch OFF.

 

I proceeded to make further improvements by installing a new radio supply from the habitation battery, and by replacing the new switch with a custom built programmable timeer, set at 30 minutes. The timer was engineered by my son. and is match box sized. We can now drift off to sleep to the sound of a favourite CD.

 

Mention has been made of the cigarette lighter being controlled by the Ignition switch. My vehicle also has a separate 12V socket on dash. This socket is switched by relay T01 on the left hand fuse panel (CFB) The relay is only shown as controlling this socket and rear power socket which is either hidden or not installed in my vehicle. A simple modification is to remove relay T01 and short the large socket terminals 30 and 87 with a short loop of wire and two male 0.25" blade connectors. Simples, but do be aware that terminal 30, the end one will be permanently alive at 12V DC. Plug into that socket last or take other precautions.

 

This applies to my X244 series Ducato, but from illustrations that I have seen the main difference in this area of the X250 series is that the fuse panel has been rotated through 90 degrees. On the X244 with F10 at the top left, relay T01 is the third relay position from the left. (The first position is designated for relay T05, head lamp washer and may be empty. Fuse F52 protects the power socket, and if this is removed it should be simple to use an earthed test lamp to find the live terminal of the fuse holder (upper one on my vehicle) with ignition on, but dead after the relay is removed. Insert link to relay base, insert fuse, and check socket is permanently live.