Insurance abroad

[Billggski]

I just had a bit of a shock, I was adding my son to my insurance because we were travelling to France.

The agent asked, in passing, if I wanted comprehensive insurance abroad.

I replied that I had comprehensive insurance, he replied "you have in the UK, but only minimum mandatory insurance for each country when abroad".

They will give you up to 30 days comprehensive cover for an additional fee.

So I checked in the small print of both cars and motorhome and it became clear that this is the case.

So...... Check with your insurers!

This is now the norm and a "green card" is third party only, or even less when in some countries.

[lennyhb]

Never heard of that before, fairly certain all specialest Motorhome policies give full comprehensive cover abroad. My policy with Comfort gives 365 day comprehensive cover for Europe and several other countries including Russia as far as the Urals which is fairly common with most policies.

Some of the cheaper car policies only give limited cover, e.g. Direct Line only give 3 days and you have pay extra each time you go abroad for longer, car policies aren't really suitable for Motorhomes anyway.

[Billggski]

Churchill want extra for up to 30 days, Aviva Moho insurance say they will give comprehensive cover for up to six months away. Both needed to be notified.

I checked with both my broker and the insurance companies.

All I am saying is check the small print, European cover doesn't necessarily mean comprehensive cover.

I'd never heard of this either.

[Dave225]

I believe that all insurance Companies will offer basic EU cover on all Policies. However, it is basic and invariably the minimum required such as 3rd Party. To get full cover usually means requesting it, and paying any surcharge and this is stated on your Schedule. This also often comes with time limtations such as trip time or maximum tme per year. To get full 365 day EU cover requires a special Policy as this suggests you are not resident in the UK.

[Bulletguy]

lennyhb - 2016-03-18 2:14 PM

 

Never heard of that before, fairly certain all specialest Motorhome policies give full comprehensive cover abroad. My policy with Comfort gives 365 day comprehensive cover for Europe and several other countries including Russia as far as the Urals which is fairly common with most policies.

 

That's interesting. Comfort would not cover me for Serbia, Bosnia and Albania and i swapped to Scenic who did. Any 'green card' country isn't usually full comprehensive though.

 

Worth a chat on the phone as my renewal is due shortly.

 

As an aside, there are not many property insurance companies who will cover if left vacant for more than 90 days.

 

[lennyhb]

Dave225 - 2016-03-18 7:57 PM

To get full 365 day EU cover requires a special Policy as this suggests you are not resident in the UK.

 

There is a difference between 365 day cover & full timing cover, you need full timing cover if you do not have a UK residence.

 

Comfort's standard cover is 365 days abroad they also offer a Full Timing policy which is considerably more expensive.

[niggle]

Thanks for the information re insurance cover abroad just had a quote from comfort insurance very competitive quote but be aware standard cover is for 9 months abroad, extra premium is required for 365 day EU cover just be aware! Sure term is the only company we have found so far that gives standard 365 day cover for EU unless anybody has any other info

[Brian Kirby]

Comfort offer, as standard, f/c insurance in Europe, subject to a 9 months limit on the total period away. You can make as many trips as you wish within one year, subject to the 9 months limit. This is what they mean by 356 day cover. Trips exceeding 9 months, either as a single trip, or in total, are classed as "long-term touring", and are subject to additional premium. In either case you must retain your UK residence. If you cease to have a UK residence you are classed as full-timing, and your premium will increase further.

 

The current insurance document defines the territorial limits (those countries where 365 days cover applies and no Green Card is required) as follows:

"Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, the Republic of Ireland, Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France (including Monaco), Germany, Gibraltar, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy (including San Marino and the Vatican City), Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland (including Liechtenstein)."

 

Outside these countries a Green Card is required. The current document states:

"All countries within the territorial limits have agreed that a Green Card is not necessary. For travel outside the territorial limits we may be prepared to extend cover to certain places by request, in which case we will provide you with a Green Card and an additional premium will be required. A single trip limit of 120 days applies to

this cover. Comfort Insurance can provide you with our Driving on the Continent information sheet."

[laimeduck]

Brian Kirby - 2016-03-26 4:58 PM  For travel outside the territorial limits we may be prepared to extend cover to certain places by request, in which case we will provide you with a Green Card and an additional premium will be required. A single trip limit of 120 days applies tothis cover. Comfort Insurance can provide you with our Driving on the Continent information sheet."

However, as BG noted above and unless things have changed from 2015, Comfort (Aviva) will NOT provide any cover at all for Bosnia Herzegovina, Serbia or Macedonia. They refused point blank with me last year.

[Robinhood]

laimeduck - 2016-03-26 5:13 PM

 

.... Comfort (Aviva) will NOT provide any cover at all for Bosnia Herzegovina, Serbia or Macedonia.

 

...current Comfort (Green Card not required) Territorial Limits now include Serbia, but not the others (as per Brian's post above).

[Barryd999]

niggle - 2016-03-26 1:09 PM

 

Thanks for the information re insurance cover abroad just had a quote from comfort insurance very competitive quote but be aware standard cover is for 9 months abroad, extra premium is required for 365 day EU cover just be aware! Sure term is the only company we have found so far that gives standard 365 day cover for EU unless anybody has any other info

 

Our Safeguard insurance is EU 365 including breakdown cover. No limits and fully comp.

 

What is a green card by the way?

[daviddwight]

If your Mh is over 3500kg Safeguard do not give accommodation cover.

[Billggski]

The green card is the old name for European insurance cover which you had to apply for before travelling over the channel, what I found with Churchill was that it still exists. (Although not green)

I only had minimum statutory cover abroad, even though they told me I had European insurance, I had to pay extra and notify them before I had fully comprehensive insurance abroad.

 

[Bulletguy]

laimeduck - 2016-03-26 5:13 PM

Brian Kirby - 2016-03-26 4:58 PM  For travel outside the territorial limits we may be prepared to extend cover to certain places by request, in which case we will provide you with a Green Card and an additional premium will be required. A single trip limit of 120 days applies to this cover. Comfort Insurance can provide you with our Driving on the Continent information sheet."

However, as BG noted above and unless things have changed from 2015, Comfort (Aviva) will NOT provide any cover at all for Bosnia Herzegovina, Serbia or Macedonia. They refused point blank with me last year.

That's what i couldn't figure from Lenny's post, particularly the "including Russia" bit. I wanted to go to Serbia, Bosnia and Macedonia in 2012 but couldn't get insurance so changed to Scenic the following year. Ironically Scenic uses Aviva so these companies seem to "write their own rules" as they go along.

[Bulletguy]

Billggski - 2016-04-03 9:43 PM

 

The green card is the old name for European insurance cover which you had to apply for before travelling over the channel, what I found with Churchill was that it still exists. (Although not green)

I only had minimum statutory cover abroad, even though they told me I had European insurance, I had to pay extra and notify them before I had fully comprehensive insurance abroad.

 

I had one last year to cover me for Ukraine (the abortive trip due to fuel pump issues!) and that was most definitely green! Some companies are charging extra for them but they shouldn't really as it costs them absolutely nothing to process and isn't even written or mailed out by them.

[derek pringle]

Bulletguy - 2016-04-03 9:57 PM

laimeduck - 2016-03-26 5:13 PM

Brian Kirby - 2016-03-26 4:58 PM  For travel outside the territorial limits we may be prepared to extend cover to certain places by request, in which case we will provide you with a Green Card and an additional premium will be required. A single trip limit of 120 days applies to this cover. Comfort Insurance can provide you with our Driving on the Continent information sheet."

However, as BG noted above and unless things have changed from 2015, Comfort (Aviva) will NOT provide any cover at all for Bosnia Herzegovina, Serbia or Macedonia. They refused point blank with me last year.

That's what i couldn't figure from Lenny's post, particularly the "including Russia" bit. I wanted to go to Serbia, Bosnia and Macedonia in 2012 but couldn't get insurance so changed to Scenic the following year. Ironically Scenic uses Aviva so these companies seem to "write their own rules" as they go along.

hi, When I recently requested a quote from Safeguard Ins. and told them the quote was too high, the agent at Safeguard recommended I contact Scenic as they were part of the same group and would be cheaper. Seems they all pxxx in the same pot hey.cheersderek

[lennyhb]

derek pringle - 2016-04-04 8:56 AM

Bulletguy - 2016-04-03 9:57 PM

laimeduck - 2016-03-26 5:13 PM

Brian Kirby - 2016-03-26 4:58 PM  For travel outside the territorial limits we may be prepared to extend cover to certain places by request, in which case we will provide you with a Green Card and an additional premium will be required. A single trip limit of 120 days applies to this cover. Comfort Insurance can provide you with our Driving on the Continent information sheet."

However, as BG noted above and unless things have changed from 2015, Comfort (Aviva) will NOT provide any cover at all for Bosnia Herzegovina, Serbia or Macedonia. They refused point blank with me last year.

That's what i couldn't figure from Lenny's post, particularly the "including Russia" bit. I wanted to go to Serbia, Bosnia and Macedonia in 2012 but couldn't get insurance so changed to Scenic the following year. Ironically Scenic uses Aviva so these companies seem to "write their own rules" as they go along.

hi, When I recently requested a quote from Safeguard Ins. and told them the quote was too high, the agent at Safeguard recommended I contact Scenic as they were part of the same group and would be cheaper. Seems they all pxxx in the same pot hey.cheersderek

Safeguard and Scenic are both Swinton in the same office in a smal village just north of Leeds, went there once to do a site survey for some contract work.

[Barcobird]

Brian Kirby - 2016-03-26 4:58 PM

 

Comfort offer, as standard, f/c insurance in Europe, subject to a 9 months limit on the total period away. You can make as many trips as you wish within one year, subject to the 9 months limit. This is what they mean by 356 day cover. Trips exceeding 9 months, either as a single trip, or in total, are classed as "long-term touring", and are subject to additional premium. In either case you must retain your UK residence. If you cease to have a UK residence you are classed as full-timing, and your premium will increase further.

 

The current insurance document defines the territorial limits (those countries where 365 days cover applies and no Green Card is required) as follows:

"Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, the Republic of Ireland, Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France (including Monaco), Germany, Gibraltar, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy (including San Marino and the Vatican City), Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland (including Liechtenstein)."

 

Outside these countries a Green Card is required. The current document states:

"All countries within the territorial limits have agreed that a Green Card is not necessary. For travel outside the territorial limits we may be prepared to extend cover to certain places by request, in which case we will provide you with a Green Card and an additional premium will be required. A single trip limit of 120 days applies to

this cover. Comfort Insurance can provide you with our Driving on the Continent information sheet."

 

 

Forgive me for asking but how does 356 day European cover have a 9 months limit ? It's either 356 or 270 sofmething days. That's like giving a 12 months warranty but it's only 9 months really !

[Derek Uzzell]

A copy of the current ‘standard’ Aviva-backed motorhome insurance policy provided by Comfort Insurance can be found here:

 

https://2s48jvfpl1l3jrkp72d55xu1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/Horizon-Motorhome-1st-July-2016.pdf

 

This policy covers motorcaravanners taking any number of trips in the UK or in specified ‘foreign’ countries during a one-year period.

 

However (Page 5 of the policy document) there is the following stipulation

 

"Long term Touring and Full Timing

Use of your motor caravan for nine months or more (whether as a single trip or a series of trips) in any one year will be treated (and rated) as long-term touring. If, in addition, you sell or let your UK property you will be treated (and rated) as full-timing. Please refer to the policy conditions on Page 29 for more details.”

 

This proviso applies to usage of the motorhome both in the UK or outside the UK. For motorcaravanners wishing to exceed the 9 months limit (eg. planning to live full-time in the motorhome), or intending to sell/let their UK property, Comfort Insurance can offer a different (more expensive) policy.

[Barcobird]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-01-08 8:24 AM

 

A copy of the current ‘standard’ Aviva-backed motorhome insurance policy provided by Comfort Insurance can be found here:

 

https://2s48jvfpl1l3jrkp72d55xu1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/Horizon-Motorhome-1st-July-2016.pdf

 

This policy covers motorcaravanners taking any number of trips in the UK or in specified ‘foreign’ countries during a one-year period.

 

However (Page 5 of the policy document) there is the following stipulation

 

"Long term Touring and Full Timing

Use of your motor caravan for nine months or more (whether as a single trip or a series of trips) in any one year will be treated (and rated) as long-term touring. If, in addition, you sell or let your UK property you will be treated (and rated) as full-timing. Please refer to the policy conditions on Page 29 for more details.”

 

This proviso applies to usage of the motorhome both in the UK or outside the UK. For motorcaravanners wishing to exceed the 9 months limit (eg. planning to live full-time in the motorhome), or intending to sell/let their UK property, Comfort Insurance can offer a different (more expensive) policy.

 

Thanks Derek, informative as ever. The policy also says

"If you take your motor caravan abroad Your certificate of motor insurance provides sufficient evidence of compliance with the laws on the minimum compulsory insurance of motor vehicles in any of these countries visited."

By this I guess they mean 3rd party cover.

 

It seems to me that the safest way of complying with all of their rules and stipulations for long term travelling abroad ( over 9 months ) is to go for the "full timing" policy which I don't know what difference it makes other than to charge more money, how much more I don't know?

[Brian Kirby]

Barcobird - 2017-01-07 10:50 PM..............Forgive me for asking but how does 356 day European cover have a 9 months limit ? It's either 356 or 270 sofmething days. That's like giving a 12 months warranty but it's only 9 months really !

See Derek's post above, and read the insurance policy with care. They all vary in detail. Then, buy what suits you. There is little point in arguing with the conditions: they are the governing conditions of your contract with the insurer. If you buy the insurance, you are deemed, under contract law, to have accepted them. If you want extras, ask if they can be provided, and check the documentation you get to be sure they are properly stated and included. If unclear what something means, ask for clarification and, if important, ask for the clarification to be confirmed in writing. Comfort's documents are generally clearly expressed, and all print is the same size!

 

I have Comfort insurance, and as well as an overall days use limit, there is also a premium adjustment for annual mileage. Either/both can be adjusted if you speak to Comfort, but doing so is likely to involve additional premium.

 

Insurers price risk, and the perception of that risk is theirs (albeit it is, at least in part, evidence based). If an insurance is notably cheaper than the competition, it is likely to be because certain risks (such as extending f/c cover to foreign use) are not covered, or because the company is more "contractual" over settling claims (which will be a bit more difficult to unearth!).

[Brian Kirby]

Barcobird - 2017-01-08 11:59 AM........................Thanks Derek, informative as ever. The policy also says

"If you take your motor caravan abroad Your certificate of motor insurance provides sufficient evidence of compliance with the laws on the minimum compulsory insurance of motor vehicles in any of these countries visited."

By this I guess they mean 3rd party cover.

 

It seems to me that the safest way of complying with all of their rules and stipulations for long term travelling abroad ( over 9 months ) is to go for the "full timing" policy which I don't know what difference it makes other than to charge more money, how much more I don't know?

If you intend travelling outside the UK for more than 9 months, and to insure with Comfort, you will need to speak to Comfort to find out what their premium would be.

 

I would suggest you carefully read the bits about overseas use, and the definitions of territorial limits, including the parts dealing with the requirement for a green card for certain countries. If you intend travelling to countries other than those listed you will need to speak to Comfort to find out what, if any countries, they can cover, on what terms, and at what premium. You will need to be able to tell them all countries you intend visiting.

 

Regarding your assumption about 3rd party cover above (which I have emboldened), this is not entirely safe. As they say, the cover is for "the minimum compulsory insurance", and that is likely to vary from country to country, albeit it will be similar to third party only insurance available in UK.

 

You should also be aware that in certain European (but non EU) countries (one being Albania, I think), if your vehicle is presented at a border exit point it is liable to be inspected for damage, and may be impounded if you cannot prove that the damage was there when you entered the country (for which purpose it is supposed to be inspected on entry, though I gather these inspections are poorly documented and less rigorous than those on exit :-)), or that any insurance liability has been resolved. (The latter can be difficult if you have merely argued with a tree while parking.)

 

Don't forget that in 3 years time you will have to return to UK for MoT testing, as a vehicle must be tested (and taxed and insured) in the country in which it is registered.

 

As the Brexit negotiations progress, expect vehicle insurance conditions (and possibly other motoring related provisions) to change, as many of these are presently harmonised across the EU under EU Directives. It would be wise to keep abreast of such changes just in case.

[Derek Uzzell]

In this 2010 MHFun discussion

 

http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/full-timing-insurance.29483/

 

the owner of a 1992 Hymer S700 motorhome said that the premium he was paying for a Comfort Insurance ‘full timing’ policy (including European breakdown cover) was £1003.

 

Barcobird’s forum ‘location’ is given as Vilamoura, Portugal but (obviously) I don’t know what his ‘citizenship’ status is and/or whether he has UK property. I’m pretty sure Comfort Insurance would anticipate providing ‘full-timing’ cover only for people with UK citizenship and living in a UK-registered motorhome.

[Robbo]

Brian Kirby - 2017-01-08 1:13 PM

 

Regarding your assumption about 3rd party cover above (which I have emboldened), this is not entirely safe. As they say, the cover is for "the minimum compulsory insurance", and that is likely to vary from country to country, albeit it will be similar to third party only insurance available in UK.

 

.

 

This is a bit worrying Brian, if I read you correctly. However, I think what you meant to say, we are covered by the Comfort comprehensive policy when traveling in the EU. And, the minimum 3rd party cover is provided as part of the EU requirement.

 

So, in simplistic terms, if I totally trash my van in the EU, it will have been comprehensively insured under the Comfort policy. Yes or No ? Assuming of course I am a UK resident and comply with the 9 month rule.

[Barcobird]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-01-08 1:39 PM

 

In this 2010nMHFun discussion

 

http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/full-timing-insurance.29483/

 

the owner of a 1992 Hymer S700 motorhome said that the premium he was paying for a Comfort Insurance ‘full timing’ policy (including European breakdown cover) was £1003.

 

Barcobird’s forum ‘location’ is given as Vilamoura, Portugal but (obviously) I don’t know what his ‘citizenship’ status is and/or whether he has UK property. I’m pretty sure Comfort Insurance would anticipated section providing ‘full-timing’ cover only for people with UK citizenship and living in a UK-registered motorhome.

 

Thanks Derek, the plot thickens and for me gets worse :-S

 

What I can make out of the discussion in the link you provided is the difference between "long term" and "full timing" is the first you have a house that you live in and bugger off for 9 months and the latter, you are of no fixed abode. However if you want to go for longer than 9 months irespective of where you live or in what you will be classed as full time.

 

I think I need to speak with Comfort as they appear to be the only company that provides this service and put a few " hypothetical " questions to them and see what the answers might be. (?) *-)