interesting Judgment in France, if only the UK was as enlightend

[hagrid]

On 23 March 2016, the Administrative Tribunal of Poitiers made two judgements relating to motorhome parking in the towns of La Flotte-en-Re and Rochefort. Both of these municipalities were criticised for their anti motorhome stance which was a victory for the Comité de Liaison du Camping-Car (Motorhome Liason Organisation or CLC).

 

The municipality of La Flotte en Ré was ordered to repeal the by law which prohibits motorhome parking from 23:00 and 07:00. The municipality argued that camping is prohibited in certain areas but the court decided that parking a camper overnight does not constitute camping. Furthermore the judge rejected the argument of the mayor that the overnight presence of campers constituted a risk to the environment pointing out that there is no proof for this claim.

 

The court also found that Rochefort in banning motorhome parking needed to abide by national laws which do not prohibit motorhomes to be parked. The town will now have to remove signs banning motorhome parking. Furthermore in a decision taken in January 2016, the local council was ordered to remove height restriction barriers fixed at 190cm.

 

[Caddies104]

As you say interesting, especially knowing that the National Law does Not forbid parking of Motorhomes.

 

[Dave225]

All very good, but if this was to lead to an 'invasion' by the travelling community, thye might not be so impressed.

 

Unfortunately, not all of us are law abiding citizens. I do not like height barriers either, but there are occasions wher they can be a necessity to protect the majority.. I assume France signed up to the Human Rights Act from the EU, as we did so eagerly, but maybe they interpret it differently???

[PJay]

Dave225 - 2016-03-29 11:27 AM

 

All very good, but if this was to lead to an 'invasion' by the travelling community, thye might not be so impressed

. I assume France signed up to the Human Rights Act from the EU, as we did so eagerly, but maybe they interpret it differently???

 

Don't they always??

PJay

[hagrid]

It is my understanding that French locals usually deal with "problem" travelers quite effectively and efficiently.

 

[malc d]

hagrid - 2016-03-29 12:45 PM

 

It is my understanding that French locals usually deal with "problem" travelers quite effectively and efficiently.

 

 

 

But will the French " locals " like being told who can park in their village by a judge a hundred miles away ?

 

 

:-D

[Derek Uzzell]

This sort of thing happens all the time in France...

 

Regulations controlling motorhome parking are introduced by the local mairie. These regulations are then challenged and, if the mairie has not dotted its regulation “i”s or crossed its “t”s, or not consulted up the bureaucratic chain of command, the mairie is made to repeal the regulations.

 

It normally doesn’t stop there though, as there’s usually a reasonable argument for the regulations to have been imposed (not just the maire hating motorcaravanners because his teenage daughter ran off with one) and revised regulations are then introduced that address why the original versions were frowned upon.

 

A good example is Locmariaquer in Morbihan that had a massive problem in the late-1990s with wildcamping motorcaravanners. Stringent regulations were introduced and then chucked out by the maire’s bosses in Rennes, but Locmariaquer nowadays has a ban on motorhome parking in the town centre, time-limited parking for car-parks in the town outskirts and height barriers on car parks near the sea.

 

 

[George Collings]

Over the last three or four years there have many more restrictions on motorhome parking especially in coastal areas. Often you can understand why as the view or access for the general public was being badly affected.

 

Its a bit of a pain off season midweek but the hotspots at weekends are so busy we tend to head inland for a bit of peace and quiet or use a site rather than an aire.

[Bulletguy]

Excellent, and i agree with your headline BUT i think you will find there are people here in the UK who enjoy wagging the finger, preaching and "playing policeman". Strangely many of them are motorhome owners who like "rules" so they can complain and whine about people who don't pay site fees!

 

As for this bit; "The town will now have to remove signs banning motorhome parking. Furthermore in a decision taken in January 2016, the local council was ordered to remove height restriction barriers fixed at 190cm."

 

Serves them right! I suppose they could always flog the signs off to any Council here in UK who would snap them up in an instant!

[Derek Uzzell]

It’s perhaps worth noting that the Tribunal’s decision regarding Rochefort was not based on the town having inadequate reasons to regulate motorhome parking there, but that ‘technical’ aspects of the regulations were incorrect (eg. the prohibitive signs did not meet French road-traffic signage norms.)

 

(Within the UK Andy Strangeway has used a similar strategy when local authorities have erected prohibitive signs that differed from UK signage norms or it becomes evident that the correct bureaucratic processes have not been followed prior to the regulations being introduced.)

 

There’s a fair amount of on-line information/discussion about the Poitiers decisions and the following link refers to the January 2016 judgement regarding the signage introduced 4 years ago at La Rochelle

 

http://www.sudouest.fr/2016/01/07/la-rochelle-des-panneaux-anti-campings-cars-illegaux-2236484-1391.php

 

http://www.lemondeducampingcar.fr/actualite/vu-sur-le-web/camping-cars-la-rochelle-condamnee-a-oter-ses-panneaux-d-interdiction.html

 

The Tribunal’s decision that the Rochefort maire should remove from a car-park a barrier limiting entry to vehicles no higher than 1.90m is of particular interest. The Tribunal stated that, according to current French regulations, such barriers must only be used when danger is involved, not merely to physically prevent vehicles over a certain height from entering a car-park. This could be bad news for other French local authorities that have introduced height barriers.

 

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

I've never made any secret of the fact that we never got to take our "proper" MHs abroad...but having read this forum for a few years, I was always being told that it is only "Rip off UK" that had a, supposedly, "anti-motorhomes" stance?...and I was very much under the impression that France was supposed to be some sort of Shangri-La as far MHs were concerned... with cheap, even free, purpose built "Aires" in almost every town & *village? ( * the inhabitants of which presumably gleefully wave and welcome passing MHers with freshly baked croissants? (lol) )..

 

So croissants aside, my question is: If the above is true, why then would folk choose to overnight on car parks? :-S

[Tracker]

Just as it would be quite wrong to take the actions of a few towns in the UK where efforts have been made to welcome motorhomers as representative of the UK as a whole, so it is equally wrong to suggest that the actions of a few French towns in their restrictive actions is represenative of all of France.

 

Having experienced hordes of inconsiderate and selfish van owners - mainly French it must be said - clogging up parts of France, especially the coast, from time to time I do have a lot of sympathy for the local tax paying residents that have to put up with the intrusion but personally when we come across crowded areas we just go find somewhere quieter and maybe return when the peak has passed.

 

The fact remains that it is considerably easier to tour France sometimes, but not always, being able to stop in some very lovely locations and without using any sites if one chooses than it would be to similarly tour the UK.

 

Vive la difference!

 

 

Applied common sense, and a sat nav, works wonders for a relaxing holiday!

[pepe63xnotuse]

I don't disagree with anything there Rich..

 

It's just that a lack of a UK aires network is always used as the major reason for folk overnighting on car parks, promenades, and in/at the likes of SSSIs etc..

 

..but France has such a network..and it also has plenty of space for proper "free-camping"

 

So I still don't see why would folk chose the likes of a car park.... :-S

 

 

[Tracker]

There are car parks and there are parks for cars and to label all car parks as unacceptable places to overnight can mean that one misses out on some amazing overnight stopovers.

 

After all in general most Aires are little more than a species of car park or a section of a car park with or without a service point and with or without a charge.

 

The great advantage of parks for cars is that generally they have a firm surface and overnight parking is authorised. That said we have arrived at several over the years that looked OK in the book and decided thanks, but no thanks, and simply moved on to a more pleasant environment such is the great joy of the freedom to meander.

 

For us the best way to find an Aire is to start looking long before you have to stop and whilst it is still daylight so that you are not caught short on a grotty spot and with the diversity and sheer volume available in France that is not that hard to achieve.

 

However as we are wandering meanderers at heart we rarely stay for more than one night, sometimes two or even three if it is really pleasant but if we were looking to stay in one location for a week or more then we would almost certainly revert to using a site.

 

Given the mess that the travelling dross make, with it's associated problems and cost for the local area, whenever they invade a free location I can't see the situation ever changing in the UK with regard to Aires.

 

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

Tracker - 2016-03-30 12:17 PM

 

There are car parks and there are parks for cars and to label all car parks as unacceptable places to overnight can mean that one misses out on some amazing overnight stopovers.

 

 

Yes, I suppose by "car parks" I was meaning those that were planned/intended to be used as such (presumably as in the OP subject matter? )and where clogging them with overnighting MHs would clearly be inconvenient to locals and other visitors.

 

Maybe the upshot of the likes of the signs and barriers mentioned in this thread, is that "we" are not always as welcome as some like to think we are?

Just because during a brief visit MHers don't hear or read about French locals complaining about them, that doesn't mean that they aren't. :-S