Next problem on our adenture

[itz]

Having moved today to a place with no hook up everything appeared fine. Set up mh on levelers and put on windscreen cover. Went off to enjoy food and a few beers at wedding reception, just returned to van to get something I had forgotten. No led lights working no fridge, no heating, at first thought it may be fuse, but started engine and lights came on so thinking maybe something else may be problem. Expecting loads of useful info as usual, not doing anything tonight though, well apart from eating and drinking until we return to cold motorhome and get snuggled under duvet till morning.

[Brambles]

Having just read the thread on your boiler problem it looks like your leisure battery has failed and is not holding much charge.

I believe you have a 2004 Mclouis and suspect the habitation electronics used have quite a high quiescent current draw (standby current). I think it is around 50mA so will drain the battery in a month or so.

If you have flattened the battery totally and left it in this state it will have damaged it and I recommend fitting an isolation switch to the negative battery connection if you do not have facility to recharge in storage or solar panels.

So basically looks like you need a new leisure battery and this should also solve your Truma issue as well.

To pre-empty possible next question...Varta LFD series of leisure batteries are good general purpose leisure battery at a good price v life ratio and has good specifications.

Check out online suppliers such as Tayna or Battery Megastore for good prices ( have not checked their prices for a while)

If buying locally you may pay well over the odds for a decent battery with the extra cost making it worth considering buying the cheapest of cheap starter batteries in a discount motoring store to keep you going and then get a decent leisure battery mail order when you get home and still be better off.

[Tracker]

itz - 2016-04-02 8:48 PM

No led lights working no fridge, no heating, at first thought it may be fuse, but started engine and lights came on so thinking maybe something else may be problem.

 

At the risk of stating the obvious - both the fridge and the heating will need both gas and 12 v battery power and to be switched to those power sources to work when you have no mains connection, although if the battery is flat neither will fire up. Does the gas hob work to eliminate a lack of gas as the issue?

 

A duff battery is a distinct possibility but beore replacing it you need to be sure that it is not a wiring or charging fault as a new battery will disguise a problem initially to make you think all is well until it too becomes too discharged to work.

[Keithl]

itz - 2016-04-02 8:48 PM

... but started engine and lights came on so thinking maybe something else may be problem...

 

This sounds to me like you have an underlying problem as most MH's have an 'EMC' relay which prevents hab lighting, etc working when the engine is running. I'm not sure if McLouis fit one but would think it a fair bet that they do.

 

You really need to check the basics of hab battery charging and discharging before fitting a new battery and risking ruining it in the first few weeks.

 

Keith.

[Brambles]

Keithl - 2016-04-03 10:47 AM

 

This sounds to me like you have an underlying problem as most MH's have an 'EMC' relay which prevents hab lighting, etc working when the engine is running. I'm not sure if McLouis fit one but would think it a fair bet that they do.

 

Keith.

It will not have an EMC relay. McLouis did not fit to this age of vehicle. Whether they do in later ones I do not know.

[itz]

Thanks folks, I will find a place here in the morning to buy a new leasure battery. This is quite an expensive trip and I am not even on my way home yet.

[Derek Uzzell]

Only UK manufacturers have chosen to fit a system that disables the operation of certain habitation equipment (eg. reading lights, water-pump) when the motorhome’s motor is running. So a McLouis won’t have an EMC relay whatever its age.

 

On the other hand almost all recent-ish motorhomes will have a control-panel able to check the charge-state of the leisure-battery and I’d confidently expect that to be true of Rick’s 2003 vehicle.

 

The state of charge of Rick’s leisure-battery was queried by Keith in the thread relating to the boiler problem, but the vehicle was (apparently) on a campsite hook-up at the time which - assuming the motorhome’s battery-charger was running - should have avoided a boiler ‘low voltage’ issue and would have skewed a control-panel voltage check.

 

A diagnosis of a failed leisure-battery is both credible and persuasive (and replacement might well cure the boiler-related problems) but it would make sense to check what the control-panel says about the battery’s charge-state before buying another.

 

I’d try running the vehicle’s motor and checking that all the habitation equipment functions. Next check the control-panel’s leisure-battery charge-state readout (which ought to show ‘high’). Then turn off the motor making sure all the habitation 12V equipment is switched on and see what happens. If the leisure-battery is totally knackered the control-panel readout should plummet and the habitation equipment will soon not work.

 

I also suggest that, if Rick does obtain a replacement battery, he gets it from somewhere that will be able to confirm the current one has had it. As a replacement battery is unlikely to be fully charged, it would be sensible to connect the vehicle to a hook-up as soon as practicable after replacement takes place.

[itz]

Attached jump leads to the leasure battery and touched clips together to test for a spark, as expected nothing at all, battery dead as a dodo. I took panels off seat and removed battery clamp only to find battery can't be slid out, the seat wll have be removed, not a big job just a nuisance, so I am going to wait till I get back to UK to buy replacement battery. I just need to use hook ups on the return journey. I may leave here tomorrow and start back, will let you all know when the next thing goes wrong.

[Tracker]

It is unusual for a flat battery to be completely deceased and that makes me wonder if it has actually been getting any worthwhile charge from any source, or whether there is a continuous power drain even when everything is supposedly turned off?

 

I would go get a cheap digital multimeter and check the leisure battery voltages at the terminals with the engine running and on mains hook up.

 

Without ensuring the charging systems actually charge you run the risk of ruining a new battery

[Brambles]

Don't ever ever ever short a battery with jump leads ...not a good idea at all.

If the battery was faulty because of an internal fracture in an internal link connection bar and you shorting the battery causes the fracture to arc.... you can get a very big BANG.

 

p.s. This is not a get at you itz, as no doubt have seen others doing it and not to know it is a dangerous practice..

[Mickt]

I have a 2003 McLouis and on the control panel you can switch the habitation side to run from engine battery.Try this first before buying new leisure battery, but not for too long as to flatten this as well. As has been sugested it looks like leisure battery has failed

[Mickt]

Just seen your post that leisure battery is under drivers seat.It maybe the orignal which seem to remember was only 75amp.My model is the 363 which is same spec just different lay out.The first thing I did when buying mine new was to upgrade leisure battery to two 110amp.I moved the batteries to under a side seat.

[aandncaravan]

If you returned to the vehicle within a fairly short time after a drive, as suggested in your text, and the battery was already dead, that is not likely to be a drain by some appliance.

It sounds like a poor battery to us.

 

Please can we suggest that you don't use the Motorhome with a battery that is past it, otherwise you will be placing a big load on both the Alternator and the EHU charger? It may be that your problem with the Heater and low voltage was possibly because the battery has already killed off the mains charger?

 

We agree with Brambles, that the battery is the issue and you should replace it ASAP. As he says with a budget Starter Battery if needs be.

Better to spend £80 on a battery you don't need than £700 on a new Alternator that will stop you getting home so maybe incur even greater costs?

 

Once again we side with Brambles not just on the danger of 'sparking' a battery but the risk to the Motorhome electronics. Not exactly healthy for the battery either?

 

 

 

[Brambles]

On the Mclouis you can disconnect the battery negative terminal and drive the vehicle or use on mains hookup without problems. This will prevent any further problems with the battery such as it starting to gas severely or overheat. Disconnect negative as safe to do so and leave positive terminal in place so it cannot be shorted to anything.

[aandncaravan]

Brambles - 2016-04-04 10:47 PM

 

On the Mclouis you can disconnect the battery negative terminal and drive the vehicle or use on mains hookup without problems. This will prevent any further problems with the battery such as it starting to gas severely or overheat. Disconnect negative as safe to do so and leave positive terminal in place so it cannot be shorted to anything.

 

 

Good point, yes driving it would probably be ok with the Habitation battery earth lead unstrapped and it might be ok to still connect it to EHU. But only if the original Mains 'Power Supply' style 'charger' is the one in place as it will automatically drop into a pure power supply mode if no battery is connected.

 

(Sorry Brambles, I know you already know this next bit, but it is information for anyone else reading the thread).

But if one of the later multi stage more modern 'charger' orientated units (or an after market charger) has been fitted it may pop. One very popular substitute charger for McLouis and Miller MH's, requires the unit to be manually switched from it's usual multi 4 stage charging mode, to a 13.5v fixed Power Supply mode to run safely without a battery in circuit.

 

Many Motorhome chargers will run without a battery in circuit, like BCA, Sargent, Plug In Systems, etc, but some will either not operate at all if a battery is not connected (Reich, Calira, etc) or be put under strain.

 

Some like the Dometic, Toptron EL range or Schaudt CSV 300/400 range are designed primarily as a power supply, so very poor charger units with a fixed 12.8 - 13.2v. A battery being connected to these usually results in failure within 6 months.

 

Generally, most Motorhome 'Chargers' are actually Power Supplies that also charge batteries but different manufacturers can put a different bias on either the Charging side or the Power Supply side depending on the application.

The Power Supply focused 'chargers' tend to have crude charging characteristics (like fixed 13.5v) and don't make such good charging units.

The multi stage 'Charging focused' Power Supplies are optimised for charging a battery very efficiently, but are not so reliable when running as a pure Power Supply.

 

Sorry I realise some of this is off topic, but the more people understand the big differences between a Car battery charger and a Motorhome charger (or even between Motorhome' chargers') the greater, hopefully, the understanding for extra care to preserve their reliability.

 

 

[Brambles]

Good point there about replacement chargers.

 

[itz]

Mickt - 2016-04-04 6:13 PM

 

I have a 2003 McLouis and on the control panel you can switch the habitation side to run from engine battery.Try this first before buying new leisure battery, but not for too long as to flatten this as well. As has been sugested it looks like leisure battery has failed

Hi Mickt,

This is a picture of my control panel, I can't see how to switch the habitation side to run from engine battery, any ideas.

[itz]

Brambles - 2016-04-04 10:47 PM

 

On the Mclouis you can disconnect the battery negative terminal and drive the vehicle or use on mains hookup without problems. This will prevent any further problems with the battery such as it starting to gas severely or overheat. Disconnect negative as safe to do so and leave positive terminal in place so it cannot be shorted to anything.

Hi Brambles,

I had no idea it could cause further problems if I didn't disconnect the dead leisure battery, I will disconnect the negative terminal before we start our return journey.

[Mickt]

This is a different panel to mine.On mine when pressing button to get read out I have 2 symbols one vehicle battery and the other leisure battery. When button is pressed the different symbols light up.

For information my charger is Nordelettronica model TE43

I see from your picture you are on hookup, half you disconnected leisure battery as suggested and is everything working ok.

The photo also shows no power from battery

[Brambles]

Mickt - 2016-04-05 12:14 PM

 

This is a different panel to mine.On mine when pressing button to get read out I have 2 symbols one vehicle battery and the other leisure battery. When button is pressed the different symbols light up.

For information my charger is Nordelettronica model TE43

I see from your picture you are on hookup, half you disconnected leisure battery as suggested and is everything working ok.

The photo also shows no power from battery

 

I think you will find on your model when pressing the button to select vehicle battery all it is doing is displaying the voltage, it does not actually switch to using it.