TALEX GPS Speed Camera Alert System

[Bazza454]

Apart from the rights and wrongs of speed camera detectors, which has had a good lively debate, the Talex also advises you of sharp bends and dangerous junctions which has sharpened the concentration on more than one occasion when touring the Highlands of Scotland, Devon and Cornwall. Obviously I have no connection whatsoever with Talex, it's just that I think it's a great piece of kit.

[madguy4]

To the original point..i havnt used the talex, howevr i had the road angel classic and found it fantastic, i was also using a sat nav, so now i have purchased the road angel 7000. it cost £299 and its great. you have full sat nav with postcode search but also speed camera detectors,,being battery powered you can also carry it around town with you if you need..so i deffinatly recommend this one..

[colin]

[QUOTE]madguy4 - 2006-11-21 7:21 PM being battery powered you can also carry it around town with you if you need..so i deffinatly recommend this one.. [/QUOTE] How fast do you walk 8-)

[madguy4]

depends if i've had beens...

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

This is for Philman who asked in another thread when France had stopped banning speed camera detectors.

Here we go!

Originally, detectors worked by sending out a beam, which detected radar or laser or both. This beam picked up the radar or laser emissions from Gatso cameras and mobile or hand-held cameras. These cameras worked by calculating how quickly you travelled through their beam.

Such detectors have been illegal in France and other European countries for many years, and still are.

In the last three or four years however, the introduction of satellite technology, the same system that car sat-navs use, has resulted in a new breed of camera known as GPS (Global Positioning Satellites) models. Most of these have no radar or laser detection but operate simply by having a database of every fixed camera in the country. When you approach a camera the detector warns you a couple of hundred yards in advance. With these cameras you can update the database regularly so that all new locations are available, although there is an annual fee for this service, usually £30 - £50.

Fixed camera sites are in the public domain and are usually also available on the web so it is very difficult for governments to ban a device which informs us of something that is in the public domain and is not secret in any way.

To the best of my knowledge, France has never banned GPS detectors so has no need to unban them!

Many sat nav systems come with speed camera databases installed. I've just taken delivery of a Tom Tom 910 for my new motorhome and this has Europe-wide cameras listed and again, I can keep these updated for an annual fee.

The ones that you should avoid if travelling in Europe then are the original radar/laser ones and hybrid ones, such as the one that I have in my own car. This is an Origin B2 and it is a GPS detector but it also has radar/laser module, which is a small sensor on the windscreen.

In this country, radar/laser models are currently legal but I have no doubt that in a few months they will be banned. In my case I shall simply remove the sensor and my remaining GPS detector will be still be legal.

What I would never do is take my hybrid GPS/radar detector to France. The French police are very harsh about the use of radar/laser detectors. Even having one in your car, switched off and in the boot for instance, is an offence. It will be confiscated and you'll face a hefty fine.

GPS detectors however and sat nav systems with speed camera databases are still legal and I'm fairly confident that they will remain so in the foreseeable future.

Finally - the advantages and disadvantages. Radar detectors will pick up all kinds of 'emission cameras' such as Gatso, mobile vans and hand-held speed cameras. They will not pick up SPECS cameras, which simply photograph your number plate and average your speed between one camera and the next. And these are becoming more common.

GPS based systems will inform you of all fixed cameras, SPECS, Gatso, Truvelo etc. but will not detect any 'emissions based' cameras such as mobile cameras in vans or on bridges.

I'm sorry if this is a little long but I hope that it clears up some misunderstandings about the legality of the two main systems.

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]Frank Wilkinson - 2006-11-21 1:41 PM

I'm sorry Mike Chapman, but there is nothing 'questionable' about the use of radar/laser detectors in this country at present. It is also true that if you are the first to go through a mobile speed trap that you will not be able to react quickly enough, as your son discovered. What is questionable, is the use of devices which actively jam mobile speed cameras. These are normally wired into the radiator grill and the driver can be charged with interfering with the police in the discharge of their duty.

However, if for instance, you were driving along a motorway and had strayed over 70mph, or if your speedo was out as mentioned above, it is likely that the mobile camera will first be triggered at a vehicle in front of you. That is when your detector will pick it up, giving you ample time to react.

As I've said earlier, I do not condone speeding but how many of us can honestly say that we have never broken the speed limit, even by accident and it is wrong in my opinion that a perfectly safe driver may, as happened to my friend, trigger a camera at two o'clock in the morning on a dual carriageway, and receive three points. A police officer seeing such an incident would have done nothing or at worst, pulled him up and cautioned him. He was doing 46mph by the way.

[/QUOTE]

Frank

I'm sorry, but I finding this line of argument unreasonable.  What you appear to find questionable, seems merely to be what is already illegal.  What others seem to understand by questionable is something that, while it may or may not be legal, is morally disreputable.  You do seem to be advancing a rather narrow set of judgements about what lies (just) within (or just outside) the law, and not what corresponds with the spirit of the law.

Surely it is the spirit that is the point of the law, not what is 0.0001% legal.  If we were all to exploit the law to its finest limits (or just beyond), I believe society would collapse under the strain.

If one is doing over 40mph in a 40mph limit one is actually breaking the law.  44mph is not made legal just because a policeman probably wouldn't book you at that speed, but merely wag his finger.  It is that appreciation your argument seems to lack.  You took a chance, you were over the limit, you got booked.  Is that so unfair?  After all, if you were being so fully attentive to road conditions at the time, why didn't you see the speed limit sign and note your own speed?

We are all subject to the same speed limits on the same roads.  What is it about Frank, or his journey, that should exempt him?  Of course the limits seem a bit OTT at various times.  Maybe one day we'll have sophisticated limits that adjust to traffic conditions but, in the meantime, we haven't and we all just have to live with the blunt tool we presently have.

In much of the rest of Europe the speed limits are absolute.  1 kph over is sufficient to get an on the spot fine.  Our tradition is a bit more liberal and accepts that such strict observance is difficult to achieve.  However, if everyone in UK persists in using every last inch of the legal slack we've been cut, we'll end up with zero tolerance as well.  Then who's better off?  You?  Me?  Anyone?  I really don't think this is smart stuff.

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

I think that we'll have to agree to differ here! You may as well say that if you accidently find yourself doing 31mph because you were distracted for a few seconds by something beyond your control that you should hand yourself in to the police. You have after all, just broken the law. Although I suppose, from the moral tone of your post, that you've never actually done something so wicked

I'm sorry that I'm not up to your very high standards of driving Brian. I do break the limit occasionally but on the other hand I go out of my way to be kind to other drivers and let them across my bow in busy traffic and allow them out of side roads, which in my experience is something done by a tiny minority.

Finally, the law is and should be reasonably flexible or it is led into disrepute. The totalitarian approach that you advocate is alien to the majority of British people. Most of us can see the logic of forgiving a driver who strays over the limit in the early hours of the morning, or overstaying his two-hour parking slot by two minutes - at least I can.

The kind of rigidity that you prescribe is despised by most of us who try to treat our fellow human beings with a little forgiveness and understanding.

[michele]

Now Now boy's. Brian has a valid point . If we all took liberties with the law then quite rightly where would we be . There would be no tollerance. At the same time I can see your argument Frank . It feels awful to get a pull and points . Some say the law is an Ass . What ever you think let's not fall out about it. This is after all a forum for people to express there views surely we can agree to differ. ;-)

[Philman]

Frank, you seem to have a very strange idea about what a speed camera detector is. Current gps systems are warners not detectors. I believe that speed camera detectors are illegal in France, maybe other places as well, I don't know. But if you drive in France with a 'detector' you will probably get nicked, fined and your equipment confiscated. Phil.

[shallowthroat]

Didn't you read what Frank said? He stated precisely that! As for the difference between a 'detector' and a 'warner' I don't think that I've ever seen a speed camera 'warner' advertised. Thank you Frank for the clarification. I now know exactly what the differences are.

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

[QUOTE]Philman - 2006-11-22 7:35 PM Frank, you seem to have a very strange idea about what a speed camera detector is. Current gps systems are warners not detectors. I believe that speed camera detectors are illegal in France, maybe other places as well, I don't know. But if you drive in France with a 'detector' you will probably get nicked, fined and your equipment confiscated. Phil.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but I'm a bit surprised at you at you taking this debate to this level. I explained clearly what is legal in France and what isn't and I really thought that I was being helpful.

You now want to argue about a detector or a warner! A GPS unit detects the position of a camera using satellites. It then warns you of its location. A radar/laser unit detects the postion of the camera from its emissions and it then warns you of its position. Both detect and warn.

And didn't I say precisely what you've just told me, that the French police treat the mere possession of a radar/laser unit very harshly? Please go back up this thread a couple of posts and read my long explanation in which I agree with your basic point! It's the last post on page one and it's even addressed to you!

[Philman]

Hi Frank, I too am sorry if you think I am arguing. I was only trying to clarify the point about the differences between the two systems, mainly to help others understand what was ok and what was not. Clearly there is a lot of confusion. I'll try not to make it any more so. I think you will find that the gps does not detect the position of the speed cameras. If it did it would be very useful for locating the mobile units. I doubt if I'll convince you so we had better agree to disagree on this. B-) B-) :-D :-D Phil.

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]Frank Wilkinson - 2006-11-22 7:19 PM

I think that we'll have to agree to differ here! You may as well say that if you accidently find yourself doing 31mph because you were distracted for a few seconds by something beyond your control that you should hand yourself in to the police. You have after all, just broken the law. Although I suppose, from the moral tone of your post, that you've never actually done something so wicked

I'm sorry that I'm not up to your very high standards of driving Brian. I do break the limit occasionally but on the other hand I go out of my way to be kind to other drivers and let them across my bow in busy traffic and allow them out of side roads, which in my experience is something done by a tiny minority.

Finally, the law is and should be reasonably flexible or it is led into disrepute. The totalitarian approach that you advocate is alien to the majority of British people. Most of us can see the logic of forgiving a driver who strays over the limit in the early hours of the morning, or overstaying his two-hour parking slot by two minutes - at least I can.

The kind of rigidity that you prescribe is despised by most of us who try to treat our fellow human beings with a little forgiveness and understanding.

[/QUOTE]

Frank

This is unworthy.  Please read again what I actually said.  

Putting your words into my mouth, and then arguing against them, doesn't respond to any of the points I actually made.  It only responds to the points you would have preferred me to have made.

Can't have a debate like that.  It goes nowhere!

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

[QUOTE]Philman - 2006-11-22 8:52 PM Hi Frank, I too am sorry if you think I am arguing. I was only trying to clarify the point about the differences between the two systems, mainly to help others understand what was ok and what was not. Clearly there is a lot of confusion. I'll try not to make it any more so. I think you will find that the gps does not detect the position of the speed cameras. If it did it would be very useful for locating the mobile units. I doubt if I'll convince you so we had better agree to disagree on this. B-) B-) :-D :-D Phil.[/QUOTE]

Phil, I'm not falling out with you but I can point out the following from my own experience.

I have a GPS speed camera detector, which knows the position of every fixed camera in the UK. SPECS, Gatso, Truvelo, the lot. Of course it cannot know the position of mobile cameras, simply because they are mobile and it's impossible to fix them on the database. This device is in my private car. It's called an Origin B10.

I now own a Tom Tom 910 GPS sat nav unit. It too has the same, or a similar database and warns me of all fixed cameras, but again, is useless for mobile ones. I've bought this specially for my new motorhome. I wanted it primarily for its sat nav facility and its Bluetooth connectivity with my cell phone, allowing hands-free calls. The speed camera database facility comes with it and it would be silly not to switch it on. Unfortunately, I am human and I err ocasionally and with the plethora of different limits today it is easy, especially when trying to navigate in a strange area, to accidentally speed. In one stretch of road near my home the limit changes about six times in as many miles. I know this but strangers can easily be distracted.

I know little of motorhoming, although I've caravanned for some time and I've found this forum of immense help and have learned a lot by trawling previous posts and by asking questions.

I do however know a bit about motoring and speed cameras. Cars are a hobby and not just for getting from A to B. I'm an enthusiastic driver and give every journey full attention as opposed to lots of people I know who think that they never break the speed limit but seem to drive on auto-pilot!

[Basil]

Hi All, Sorry SAS but I have no experience of the system you are asking of but I would recommend another type from experience. I discounted the Talex for the simple reason that it was dearer and you have to pay for a subscription to the updates for ever, with the one I got you don't. I would say that I am not a 'serial' speeder but will readily admit to frequent speeding by the odd few mph (I am aware that the amount is irrelevent) usually due to me concentrating more on the road and conditions than the speedometer. Having fitted cruise control, almost the best thing since sliced bread to me, this problem is greatly reduced having preset speed setting built in. But because I wish to retain my clean driving record (barring one parking on a grass verge crime) I decided that what I needed was some device that warned me if I was exceding the current speed limit and so I invested in a Fuzion FZ1, see www.microfuzion.co.uk/default.asp whilst this is a speed camera position warning device (cor don't you have to put lots of words to cover your back) it also gives a continuous speed readout, with preset warnings if required, congestion charge area warning, schools and other blackspot warnings plus you can enter your own. As it also comes with free software and database updates for life I thought , for my purposes, it was good value for money. To be fair it was a bit cheaper when I got mine at £79.99 but at £99.99 it IMO still represents good VFM and it takes away that problem that every honest driver has of inadvertantly going over the speed limit so there is absolutely no excuse when using one of these. I hope this has not gone away from but enhanced the discussion, if not I apologise now! Bas Edit Forgot to say it will also act as the GPS reciever for a Hand held PC or laptop and for Autoroute etc..

[Philman]

Hi Frank, I'm not really your grandmother :-D :-D As you rightly say the database of speed cameras (along with thousands of other POIs) is installed in your gps unit. They are there whether or not you are receiving positioning information from the satellites. If you look at the map you will see they are all there, all the time, nothing to do with the satellite. I think we've done this to death now and are getting nowhere fast so I'll say no more. Have a nice day. Phil.

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

Philman wrote:

I think you will find that the gps does not detect the position of the speed cameras. If it did it would be very useful for locating the mobile units.

I'm just completely and utterly puzzled by your posts on this. I have a GPS speed detector. It warns me up to 200 yards in advance of all fixed-site speed cameras. This is because they are all in its database and because of the GPS it knows where my car is and consequently it knows when I'm approaching a camera.

This happens also with my sat nav unit, which has the speed camera system installed. It's true that many sat navs do not have the speed camera warnings, only the more expensive ones.

I repeat! I own both and I use both and I know that they work, as five minutes online to any GPS speed camera or sat nav supplier will confirm.

Your posts seem to be denying this fact, or am I somehow misreading them?

Finally, because they know where fixed-site cameras are does not mean that they must also be able to detect mobile ones. How can a GPS unit store mobile cameras in its database when it doesn't know where they will be from one day to the next?

[Basil]

Frank Quite right but with the Fuzion I just punch in every time I see a mobile camera and it reminds me next time as I start to get close to that point. Bas

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

Uum! That's interesting. What you are saying I think is that your sat nav doesn't have a speed camera database built-in but that you can add them as 'Points of Interest' (POIs).

I think that this is where others are confused. A proper GPS speed camera detector, or a sat nav with a built-in detector, such as mine, already has the database of every camera programmed in, and you can update them regularly by downloading from the manufacturer's web site (at an annual fee of course).

The only problem with your system if I understand you, is that you have to spot a camera in the first place and then mark it as a POI.

Have I understood you correctly?

[Basil]

Hi Frank,

No not quite correct and it is a GPS camera locator not PDA.  The Fuzion FZ1 has the built in database of speed camera locations, as well as known blackspots and schools, but it also has the ability for the user to push a button when you see a camera position not recorded or a mobile position and it will recognise it the next time.

Not any use for areas you do not know but it has the ability to warn you that you are exceeding the speed limit as well.  if you do enter a mobile position (they do tend to use the same ones) at least it will warn you the next time you are in the area.

I posted the web address in an earlier post, for me they are good VFM particularly as you don't have to pay for database updates they are free for life.

Bas

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

Right, got you. I've been researching my new TomTom 910 a bit more and it too has mobile cameras in its database, which is something that even my very expensive GPS speed camera detector doesn't have.

As you say, they do often have them in the same place so it can be useful I suppose and even if the mobile camera isn't present, which it won't be most days, it will still be good to have a warning, which will remind you again to check your speed.