Trained weight on motorhome

[Snod]

Hi

It seems that my in cab sticker with all weights on from sea model dinghy made in Italy, has only got the same weight as the trained weight. Which is 3400kg . The original trained weight is 5000kg before mods. Possibly makers have done this as cheaply so not applied extension as type approved , hence no trained weight. .

If I get mods done if needed, when tow bar company makes bespoke tow bar , only want to tow about 260kg max for trailer and bike.

Who do I contact to get the sticker upgrade for a trained weight. Been to weigh bridge today my 3400 gross well below. 2720kgs . That's with full tank fuel and half packed up. So still got a payload of 680kgs to play with.

 

Or can I use the bike and trailer to use up some of this.

My log book only has revenue gross at 3400kgs that's it nothing else . Can't find any docs from manufacturers about the sticker weights anywhere .

 

Thanks Ian

[Mike B.]

Hi

Have you checked under the bonnet for a plate as this is where mine is (also a SEA )

You should be ok with up to 750kg trailer I would have thought or 4200kg

Mike

[Snod]

Hi mike

yes I have but the plate under bonnet is before it was made by sea. It's a fiat Ducati van plate which is ok 3400kgs. And 5000kgs combined trained, but sea have extended the chassis, and put cab on. Sea have new plate inside which now says no trained weight .

3400

3400

1650

1900

This cancels any tow weight out. If I get mods on back then ok . But need update new plate

Regards Ian

[Mike B.]

I may be wrong but I think if the GTW is 5000kgs and your van is only 2720 as it sits you don't have a problem provided your trailer isn't more than 2280. I would not tow this much personally as it could be a tail wagging dog situation but if you get the weight of the towbar + 2720 +your bike and deduct from 5000 that should give you your maximum trailer weight.

Unless your bike is extremely heavy you shouldn't have any probs with a lightwieght non braked trailer.

I tow a C1 on A frame and/or Harley on a non braked 750kg trailer and I'm still inside my GTW of 4850kgs

Mike

[Snod]

Sorry Mike

 

I know this would be ok to tow, but I've been told off other people that the law now checks the new modification sticker and not the original one under bonnet. It's just vosa would check my sticker saying 3400 gtw . Vosa are now self funding now so will be pulling loads of people over to make there money.

 

What I'm worried about is if I do have an accident or get pulled , especially abroad and they go off the rear cab plate, I will have to offload the bike and trailer, big on spot fine.

This is what people said on a Facebook forum.

Some guy actually worked alongside vosa, he told me I could not even fit a tow bar ? As 0 gtw Cheers Ian

[Snod]

I just need to know how do I change the new mod plate to read a correct gtw , if I need mods on extension to get this new rating , then I will get this next week when I get a new tow bar made. Then who do I contact to replate the new in cab sticker or plate.

 

Regards Ian

[Keithl]

Ian,

 

The only people I can think of who may (and I stress MAY) be able to help you are SV Tech, they are specialists in re-plating MH's to increase (or decrease) GVW.

 

http://www.svtech.co.uk/vehicles/motorhomes/

 

If they can't help then I don't think anyone can!

 

Keith.

 

 

PS And don't spend any money on getting a towbar fitted until you are 100% certain you can get your Train weight increased!

[George Collings]

I forget the exact date but of late towbars fitted to motorcaravans like cars have to type approved

 

It may SEA have extended the chassis and made it impossible to fit the correct towbar and to cover themselves deleted the Trail weight . One or two cars are the same ( both Ford Ka and Fiat 500 being built on the same floorpan for example) but there are others.

[Billggski]

You can either take the later vin plate off, or buy a blank vin plate for £14 from eBay, and then either letter it yourself or get it done properly for a similar amount.

[Snod]

Cheers Keith & George

 

Ok will give it a shot, May know about replating just the train .

The tow bar company is also down that neck of the woods.

 

Also indespension tow bar company give me advice as they don't do mhs coachbuilt.. they told me about type approved from 2012, but also give me company's that make bespoke tow bars for mhs.

These have to be made from scratch as undercarriages are never the same. These pass mots so should be ok.

[George Collings]

The MOT test does not require a check for TA marking. Basically just that the towbar appears to be suitable for purpose.

 

With no TA should there be an insurance claim it might well be a way for an insurer to refuse the claim.

 

It a matter to discuss with the firm( ask to see their product liability insurance) you have been put in touch with and then get a second expert opinion on what you are told.

 

 

 

 

 

[Snod]

Ok cheers will do,

his business has been running since 1990 , web site states he's a specialist in mh all types , bespoke , his site is just for motorhome tow bars. there is a few in the north east too, but about £800 + .So got a fair price in Preston .He has done loads , had loads rocommendations from mh groups .

[Campfos]

Hi all,

 

After some advice the fiat weight plate under the bonnet gives the following information .

3500kgs

6000kgs

1. 1850 kgs

2. 2000kgs

 

What does this mean

Max weight of the van is 3500kgs ?????

Max train weight is 6000kgs does that mean I can tow a trailer of 2500kgs

1 is that the front axle max weight 1850kgs

2 is that the rear axle max weight 2000kgs.

 

Now to confuse the issue the motorhome manufacturer plate on the drivers door check.

Lists the following

3495kgs

5495kgs

1850kgs

2000kgs

 

I did take the van to a local scrap merchants and to weight it and it's 3250kgs loaded and ready for go no drivers in it I did try to get the axle weights done but he said I could only have an overall weight.

 

So I would be grateful if someone could explain all this to me.

 

 

 

 

[Billggski]

I've seen a few instances recently where manufacturers state 3495 or even 3499k as the load, I assume someone must interpret "under 3500k" as the limit.

The axle weights will be more than your total permitted weight to allow for an uneven load, but I have never had a problem getting separate weights from a weighbridge.

The total train weight is as you say, but depends on your licence.

[Basil]

SV Tech if you want to do it officially, or Vintags if you want a plate made to your spec.

 

Bas

[AlanS]

Campfos - 2016-04-30 5:41 PM

 

Hi all,

 

After some advice the fiat weight plate under the bonnet gives the following information .

3500kgs

6000kgs

1. 1850 kgs

2. 2000kgs

 

What does this mean

Max weight of the van is 3500kgs ?????

Max train weight is 6000kgs does that mean I can tow a trailer of 2500kgs

1 is that the front axle max weight 1850kgs

2 is that the rear axle max weight 2000kgs.

 

Now to confuse the issue the motorhome manufacturer plate on the drivers door check.

Lists the following

3495kgs

5495kgs

1850kgs

2000kgs

 

I did take the van to a local scrap merchants and to weight it and it's 3250kgs loaded and ready for go no drivers in it I did try to get the axle weights done but he said I could only have an overall weight.

 

So I would be grateful if someone could explain all this to me.

 

 

Referring to the manufacturers plate, i.e Convertors plate :-

 

3495 kg - Maximum Gross Weight of the vehicle conversion including all your equipment,yourselves, etc.

5495 kg - This is the Gross Train Weight of the vehicle. which means that in theory, you could tow 2000 kg trailer over and above the Maximum Gross Weight of the vehicle.

1850 kg - this is the maximum load that can be applied to the front axle.

2000 kg - this is the maximum load that can be applied to the rear axle.

 

Alan

[Brian Kirby]

Campfos - 2016-04-30 5:41 PM.........................I did take the van to a local scrap merchants and to weight it and it's 3250kgs loaded and ready for go no drivers in it I did try to get the axle weights done but he said I could only have an overall weight.

 

So I would be grateful if someone could explain all this to me.

Explanations given in preceding posts. However, first get to a decent weighbridge, as any should be able to give you at least rear axle (A) and whole vehicle (B) weight. Front axle is then B - A.

 

But when weighed it should be with everything and everyone in it, as drivers and passenger/s (and pets etc.) all count as load.

[Archiesgrandad]

I thought that legally, if the builder of the bodywork does something that changes the weights on the plate, they are required to put a new plate on showing the revised weights, and the revised weights are the ones that have to be conformed with by the user. If that is the case then this poster has to live with the lower limits, and may not tow a trailer if it takes the train weight above 3.5 tonnes.

AGD

[Brian Kirby]

Archiesgrandad - 2016-05-01 7:54 PM

 

I thought that legally, if the builder of the bodywork does something that changes the weights on the plate, they are required to put a new plate on showing the revised weights, and the revised weights are the ones that have to be conformed with by the user. If that is the case then this poster has to live with the lower limits, and may not tow a trailer if it takes the train weight above 3.5 tonnes.

AGD

You are correct. Not sure if Snod is Campfos, or whether Campfos is riding on Snod's query with a similar query on a similar van. Where vehicles are completed in stages, as motorhomes are, the "finisher" has to attach his own plate, and that is the definitive plate. The Fiat plate then becomes irrelevant to the vehicle as converted.

 

In the process of converting Snod's base Ducato into his motorhome, SEA seem to have diverted all of his towing capacity to other ends, possibly because the rear chassis extension adds excessive weight to the rear axle, or possibly (and I think more likely) because the design of whatever that chassis extension is doesn't cater for the additional stresses that it would be subjected to when towing.

 

In a nutshell, he can't tow, and it would be very unwise to ignore the SEA plate or, as suggested above, to get a blank and make up one's own (unless one is a fully qualified mechanical engineer with access to the original Fiat and SEA calculations - which seems improbable). The latter course could have serious implications for whoever fitted the plate, if an accident were to take place in which knowingly falsifying its manufacturer's plate, in order to use the vehicle to tow against its manufacturers directions, was found to have contributed to injury or loss of life.

[Keithl]

Brian Kirby - 2016-05-01 10:07 PM

 

Not sure if Snod is Campfos, or whether Campfos is riding on Snod's query with a similar query on a similar van.

 

 

Brian,

 

From an earlier thread Campfos has a Sunlight T66 approx one year old and owned from new...

 

Campfos - 2016-05-01 10:08 AM

 

Hi again,

 

...The van is a sunlight T66.

 

Campbell

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks Keith. I understand now.