Motorhome tyres 215/70/15 HELP Confused!

[Rowansummer]

I know this has been posted around but I can't find any up to date information. I need 5 new tyres for my Fiat Ducato based motorhome. Which are best? We intend to go to Europe probably wouldn't be in the winter but you never know! I have been looking at Michelin Agilis Camper and Continental Vanco Camper tyres, but am open to suggestions. We had a blow out on the motorway and I don't want a repeat of that. I want the best tyres for my money without being ripped off! I've had best prices from KwikFit and Asda Tyres both coming in at about £100 each tyre fitted and new valves. Any advice would be greatly appreciated :) thanks in advance :-D

[StuartO]

I had two rear tyre blow-outs on the motorway with my first motorhome before I realised that I had overloaded the rear axle by putting too much stuff in

 

I replaced the original Michelin XC tyres on my 2006 Hymer last year (because they were ten years old) and chose Michelin Agilis Camping, the new equivalent to my old ones, which I am very happy with.  Agilis are marked as "M&S" tyres, so they are acceptable as winter tyres in European countries where you need approved winter tyres, but they are an all year tyre so you don't need to swap around.

 

I've always been a Michelin fan but I suspect I would be just as happy with Continentals if I'd fitted those.

 

[Brian Kirby]

Rowansummer - 2016-05-13 3:59 PM......................... I want the best tyres for my money without being ripped off! I've had best prices from KwikFit and Asda Tyres both coming in at about £100 each tyre fitted and new valves. Any advice would be greatly appreciated :) thanks in advance :-D

Above all else, don't let them get away with fitting normal snap-in car type valves. They must fit clamp-in valves as the snap in type can't withstand the much higher pressures recommended for motorhomes. If a snap-in fails under motorhome tyre pressures, it will be likely to do so by blowing straight out of the rim. The fitters probably won't like it: many seem ignorant on the subject, and relatively few seem to keep stock of the correct valve type.

 

If the existing metal valve stems are in good condition and aren't letting by, it may be easier to have the valve cores changed instead of fitting complete valves, but I'm definitely not advocating this!

[lennyhb]

I changed the Vanco camper's on my van for Hankook RA10 4 season tyres, pleased with them and they are a lot cheaper than camping tyres.

 

A note to Brians comment about the valves you can get high pressure snap in valves easily identified by their brass core.

[gordonaldson]

Load rating of the tyre is the criteria here, Michelin Camping have always been mentioned but there is other good tyres out there from Hankook, Continental and the like. So look to the load rating of the tyre. I have nearly a 2 ton Voyager and its quoted 98H cos its stamped on the doorway. Other tyres I've used have been 102T/104T/108T. So for a continually loaded Camper look much higher. I've seen 117T tyres but consult a tyre loading sheet for the right tyre for your axle loads.

Mytyres have Goodyear Cargo 109R for £76. Light van but need higher.

Agilis Camping are 109Q £114..Q needs confirmed is it extra strength.

[Billggski]

Just bought two Agilis camping 225 70 15 from blackcircles at £102 fitted by Mr Tyre who were very good, had high pressure valves and checked the torque settings.

I changed from 215 70 15 as my rear axles are approaching 2000k and their limit is 1030 each at 5.5 bar.

[aandncaravan]

If you are looking for a lower risk of a tyre blowout then you might be better off avoiding the Camping tyre versions and going for a tyre with a both a higher load AND Speed rating?

 

The stress on a tyre increases as the speed rises, so a tyre with a higher speed rating can carry the same load but at high speed or a higher load at a lower speed.

A tyre with a higher Speed rating of say T/118mph will probably handle another 100kgs at 60mph than it's 1120 kg Load Index might indicate.

I am not suggesting you 'overload' a tyre by taking it above it's Load Index, but a tyre with a T speed rating of 118mph, will be very much more within it's comfort threshold at 60mph than a N/87mph rated tyre if both carry the same 1060kgs.

 

Going up to 225 size will increase the Load/safety margin further.

 

For example a Michelin Agilis Plus 225/70/15 tyre with a 112/1120kgs per tyre and a speed rating of S/111 mph will much, much more easily handle it's 1120 kgs at 70mph than a 112/N which is speed rated at 87mph.

In other words an S speed rated tyre will handle a heavy axle much more safely than a 'Q' at any normal UK Motorhome speed.

 

I am a Michelin fan, not just for tyre life, but resistance to 'cracking/perishing'.

Fuel saving, wet Grip and Noise are generally better than the rest.

 

The website below allows you to compare one tyre against another.

The Infinity might only be £47 versus the Michelins £84 but the Michelin has an excellent Fuel rating of C, one of the highest Wet grip ratings of B along with a low Noise rating of 70Db versus the Infinities E, E and 73db.

While an extra 2db might not seem much it is something like a doubling of the Noise level. Don't ask me to explain Db rating, I can't, but as I understand it, a 2 Db increase is roughly twice as loud.

 

You will see Event tyres have a wet grip rating of F, and I can speak from experience that an H van I drove in the wet with Event tyres was scarily bad.

Hankook's are only £68 but not the best ratings of E, C and 70db.

 

The website also lists Camping tyres, but they generally have a lower Q/99 mph speed rating so in real terms a lower load limit. However, Camping tyres are generally a more comfortable ride.

 

I would suggest that the Michelin Agilis plus would have a more supple ride than the budgets and not far off another manufacturers Camping tyre?

 

Note that the Goodyears and Continental tyres are only speed rated at R (as are many of the others) not the higher S Speed rating of the Michelin.

The Austone has a Speed rating of just Q.

 

 

http://www.camskill.co.uk/m27b0s524p0/Van_Tyres_-_Trailer_Tyres_-_Caravan_Tyres_-_Motorhome_Tyres_-_Minibus_Tyres_-_15_inch_R15_inch_-_225_70_15_225_70R15

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[starvin marvin]

aandncaravan - 2016-05-14 12:30 AM

 

If you are looking for a lower risk of a tyre blowout then you might be better off avoiding the Camping tyre versions and going for a tyre with a both a higher load AND Speed rating?

 

The stress on a tyre increases as the speed rises, so a tyre with a higher speed rating can carry the same load but at high speed or a higher load at a lower speed.

A tyre with a higher Speed rating of say T/118mph will probably handle another 100kgs at 60mph than it's 1120 kg Load Index might indicate.

I am not suggesting you 'overload' a tyre by taking it above it's Load Index, but a tyre with a T speed rating of 118mph, will be very much more within it's comfort threshold at 60mph than a N/87mph rated tyre if both carry the same 1060kgs.

 

Going up to 225 size will increase the Load/safety margin further.

 

For example a Michelin Agilis Plus 225/70/15 tyre with a 112/1120kgs per tyre and a speed rating of S/111 mph will much, much more easily handle it's 1120 kgs at 70mph than a 112/N which is speed rated at 87mph.

In other words an S speed rated tyre will handle a heavy axle much more safely than a 'Q' at any normal UK Motorhome speed.

 

I am a Michelin fan, not just for tyre life, but resistance to 'cracking/perishing'.

Fuel saving, wet Grip and Noise are generally better than the rest.

 

The website below allows you to compare one tyre against another.

The Infinity might only be £47 versus the Michelins £84 but the Michelin has an excellent Fuel rating of C, one of the highest Wet grip ratings of B along with a low Noise rating of 70Db versus the Infinities E, E and 73db.

While an extra 2db might not seem much it is something like a doubling of the Noise level. Don't ask me to explain Db rating, I can't, but as I understand it, a 2 Db increase is roughly twice as loud.

 

You will see Event tyres have a wet grip rating of F, and I can speak from experience that an H van I drove in the wet with Event tyres was scarily bad.

Hankook's are only £68 but not the best ratings of E, C and 70db.

 

The website also lists Camping tyres, but they generally have a lower Q/99 mph speed rating so in real terms a lower load limit. However, Camping tyres are generally a more comfortable ride.

 

I would suggest that the Michelin Agilis plus would have a more supple ride than the budgets and not far off another manufacturers Camping tyre?

 

Note that the Goodyears and Continental tyres are only speed rated at R (as are many of the others) not the higher S Speed rating of the Michelin.

The Austone has a Speed rating of just Q.

 

 

http://www.camskill.co.uk/m27b0s524p0/Van_Tyres_-_Trailer_Tyres_-_Caravan_Tyres_-_Motorhome_Tyres_-_Minibus_Tyres_-_15_inch_R15_inch_-_225_70_15_225_70R15

 

 

Decibels (presumably named after Old Alexander Graham) are calculated on a binominal scale. You may have been off school on the day this was taught! If tyre noise increases, either from the tyre itself or road surface changes you could do what I do.....turn the radio up. Simples.

[starvin marvin]

starvin marvin - 2016-05-14 8:24 AM

 

aandncaravan - 2016-05-14 12:30 AM

 

If you are looking for a lower risk of a tyre blowout then you might be better off avoiding the Camping tyre versions and going for a tyre with a both a higher load AND Speed rating?

 

The stress on a tyre increases as the speed rises, so a tyre with a higher speed rating can carry the same load but at high speed or a higher load at a lower speed.

A tyre with a higher Speed rating of say T/118mph will probably handle another 100kgs at 60mph than it's 1120 kg Load Index might indicate.

I am not suggesting you 'overload' a tyre by taking it above it's Load Index, but a tyre with a T speed rating of 118mph, will be very much more within it's comfort threshold at 60mph than a N/87mph rated tyre if both carry the same 1060kgs.

 

Going up to 225 size will increase the Load/safety margin further.

 

For example a Michelin Agilis Plus 225/70/15 tyre with a 112/1120kgs per tyre and a speed rating of S/111 mph will much, much more easily handle it's 1120 kgs at 70mph than a 112/N which is speed rated at 87mph.

In other words an S speed rated tyre will handle a heavy axle much more safely than a 'Q' at any normal UK Motorhome speed.

 

I am a Michelin fan, not just for tyre life, but resistance to 'cracking/perishing'.

Fuel saving, wet Grip and Noise are generally better than the rest.

 

The website below allows you to compare one tyre against another.

The Infinity might only be £47 versus the Michelins £84 but the Michelin has an excellent Fuel rating of C, one of the highest Wet grip ratings of B along with a low Noise rating of 70Db versus the Infinities E, E and 73db.

While an extra 2db might not seem much it is something like a doubling of the Noise level. Don't ask me to explain Db rating, I can't, but as I understand it, a 2 Db increase is roughly twice as loud.

 

You will see Event tyres have a wet grip rating of F, and I can speak from experience that an H van I drove in the wet with Event tyres was scarily bad.

Hankook's are only £68 but not the best ratings of E, C and 70db.

 

The website also lists Camping tyres, but they generally have a lower Q/99 mph speed rating so in real terms a lower load limit. However, Camping tyres are generally a more comfortable ride.

 

I would suggest that the Michelin Agilis plus would have a more supple ride than the budgets and not far off another manufacturers Camping tyre?

 

Note that the Goodyears and Continental tyres are only speed rated at R (as are many of the others) not the higher S Speed rating of the Michelin.

The Austone has a Speed rating of just Q.

 

 

http://www.camskill.co.uk/m27b0s524p0/Van_Tyres_-_Trailer_Tyres_-_Caravan_Tyres_-_Motorhome_Tyres_-_Minibus_Tyres_-_15_inch_R15_inch_-_225_70_15_225_70R15

 

 

Decibels (presumably named after Old Alexander Graham) are calculated on a binominal scale. You may have been off school on the day this was taught! If tyre noise increases, either from the tyre itself or road surface changes you could do what I do.....turn the radio up. Simples.

 

On second thoughts decibels may be on a logarithmic scale..... Who cares life's too short to bother.

[Derek Uzzell]

Rowansummer

 

Assuming that you wished to stay with the 215/70 R15 specification, then a load-index of 109 (1030kg per wheel) is the maximum available.

 

If you wanted CP-marked ‘camping-car’ tyres, Michelin’s “Agilis Camping”, Continental’s “VancoCamper” and Pirelli’s “Carrier Camper” are the only patterns currently marketed. All of these are ‘summer’ tyres, but Agilis Camping is M+S-marked which could be significant if travelling in the winter in certain Continental European countries. Carrier Camper is likely to be less commonly available than the Michelin and Continental products, but probably cheaper.

 

In April 2014 the German magazine Auto-Bild comparatively tested seven ‘motorhome suitable’ tyres in 235/65 R16 size including Carrier Camper and Vanco Camper. A summary of the test results is here

 

http://www.pirelli.com/tyres/en-ww/car/find-your-tyres/test-results/summer/carrier-auto-build-2014-04

 

In mid-2013 the German motorhome magazine Pro-Mobil comparatively tested six 215/70 R15 size tyres including Agilis Camping and VancoCamper. VancoCamper scored higher than Agilis Camping. The tyre-noise figures published in that test strongly suggest that ‘on paper’ comparisons based simply on the noise datum on tyre labels won’t be worth the effort.

 

The Pro-Mobil and Auto-Bild tests both marked Hankook’s “Vantra LT” highest overall. This is an M+S-marked ‘commercial’ tyre and not CP-marked, but if you were comfortable choosing a non-CP-marked tyre, Hankook’s “Vantra LT (RA18)” should be as good as any and better than most.

 

http://www.hankooktire.com/uk/passenger-cars/hankook-vantra-lt-ra18.html

 

For tyre inflation-pressures over 60psi a high-pressure (HP) valve should be used. This may be the clamp-in type mentioned by Brian Kirby, but there are specialised ‘snap-in’ valves like Alligator’s CVV valves or Schrader’s 6575 range that will cope with very high pressures but are simpler to fit than the clamp-in variety. (Neither the Alligator nor the Schrader valves are likely to be in Terry Tyrefitter’s tool-box.)

 

The metal component of most tyre valves will be brass (plated or not) and although common-or-garden snap-in HP valves (example here)

 

http://www.balanceweights.co.uk/product-p/vhp600.htm

 

normally have a fair amount of their stem visible, there are plenty of ‘cosmetic’ non-HP valves marketed with a lot of visible stem showing. It’s probably realistic to say that any valve with NO visible stem (example here)

 

http://www.ecvv.com/product/1455566.html

 

is not an HP valve, but that’s about it.

 

A tyre’s speed-rating is given by a letter after its load-index. This letter indicates the speed at which the tyre has proved capable of being run safely under test at the load-index figure.

 

https://www.ctyres.co.uk/general/speed-rating

 

A Michelin Agilis Camping 215/70 R15CP has a speed-rating of “Q” (160kmh/99mph), which should be plenty adequate for any motorhome wearing that tyre. Suggesting that a tyre with a higher load-index and speed-rating will automatically be ‘safer’ than one with a lower load-index/speed-rating is just speculation. As long as the latter tyre is operated within its sidewall-marked specification, it should be considered safe.

 

Obviously if a tyre is overloaded beyond its load-index weight or is insufficiently inflated (or both!) there’s a potential risk of failure, but there’s little point in diverging from a vehicle’s OE (Original Equipment) tyre size/specification just for the fun of it.

 

Although catastrophic tyre failures do occur, the damage to the tyre (particularly when a motorhome is involved) is often so great that it won’t be practicable to establish what caused the ‘blow out’. The tyre or tyre valve might have failed, but equally (perhaps more) likely a puncture causes a gradual loss of pressure with the tyre overheating and eventually expiring.

 

As I’ve mentioned in the past I had a tyre valve partially fail on a motorhome. I had been driving on a French autoroute and only noticed the problem after exiting the motorway and, when driving slowly with a cab window open, could hear an unusual noise. When I stopped and checked, the pressure was down to about 20psi (rather than 60psi) and the tyre was HOT. The failed valve was in a rear wheel and I can’t say I noticed any dramatic change in the motorhome’s handling while on the autoroute. Then, when I was putting the spare wheel on, the valve on the other rear tyre spontaneously split. An exciting and educational experience!

 

If a motorhome is fitted with good quality suitable tyres that have a load-index and speed-rating that are appropriate to the vehicle, and the tyres are inflated to an appropriate pressure and operated within their design specification regarding load and speed, and good quality suitable tyre valves are used, this still won’t guarantee that a blow out won’t occur. But it’s probably the best one can do tyre- and tyre-valve-wise.

 

Beyond that, it would be necessary to accept the possibility of pressure-loss and tyre failure and opt for preventative measures like having a tyre-pressure monitoring system, putting sealant in the tyres and fitting Tyron bands to minimise the effect of a blow out.

[Charles]

When I was at college the decibel scale was logarithmic and noise levels doubled every 3db. I didn't study tyres though so it could be different for them ;-)

[aandncaravan]

Derek, you know I have immense respect for your knowledge which not only covers a huge number of diverse subjects, but also has great depth. However, I am going challenge some of what you write here as there are significant safety benefits available to many Motorhome owners by exploring this subject further.

 

To me, a higher Speed rated tyre is about greater safety, not driving faster : shorter Braking distances, stronger wet grip, improved Traction, improved Stability, resilience to Blowouts, safer corning and making a Motorhome drive less like a Boat. It can even result in longer tyre life.

 

Some spend a fortune on suspension aids when an informed tyre choice might be all they need?

 

The OP writes, "We had a blow out on the motorway and I don't want a repeat of that. I want the best tyres for my money.......".

To me that reads like he doesn't want another blowout and wants the best (safest) tyre that reduces that risk to a minimum, thereby giving the best safety margin available?

 

That was what we tried to address in our response. If one tyre is identical in all respects to another, except that one has a higher speed rating, that higher Speed rated tyre will be a safer choice.

 

For a tyre to be able to handle a given load/weight at a higher speed it has to be a more accomplished tyre, in almost every aspect. This is usually achieved by making the whole carcass stronger, but in any case stiffer sidewalls.

A higher speed rated tyre will not only be a stronger tyre but generally have a much higher performance, purely because the manufactures know it is being fitted to a faster vehicle that might place greater demands on the tyre.

 

A stronger tyre with a 130mph speed rating is going to be much safer on a Motorhome loaded to it's max Loaded weight than a tyre rated for just 89mph when driven at 80mph.

That is not speculation, it is fact.

 

My 'extra' 100kg load capability IS speculation. However, I was not suggesting anyone used the higher speed rating to increase their load carrying capability, only pointing out that they had a greater margin of safety by that estimated amount against a blow out.

 

This website below is one of the better ones that explains the above :

http://blog.autosquad.com/tire-speed-rating-its-not-just-about-how-fast-you-drive/

It states, "One of the side effects of speed rating is that the construction necessary to meet a higher speed rating affects the overall performance of the tire. A tire that is built with more plies and stiffer side walls to handle high speeds will generally handle much better and offer better traction and stopping ability".

 

 

I would suggest that as it is unlikely Pirelli are going to design a 220mph tyre that has worse stability or braking than a tyre designed for 30mph, that we can pretty much agree with the foregoing statement.

 

By it's very nature a Higher speed rated tyre will always mean a safer tyre in terms of Braking, stability, traction, wet grip and load.

 

You write,

"A Michelin Agilis Camping 215/70 R15CP has a speed-rating of “Q” (160kmh/99mph), which should be plenty adequate for any motorhome wearing that tyre. Suggesting that a tyre with a higher load-index and speed-rating will automatically be ‘safer’ than one with a lower load-index/speed-rating is just speculation. As long as the latter tyre is operated within its sidewall-marked specification, it should be considered safe. .....there’s little point in diverging from a vehicle’s OE (Original Equipment) tyre size/specification just for the fun of it".

 

 

 

I would suggest you rethink as there’s every "point in diverging from a vehicle’s OE (Original Equipment) tyre size/specification....." to consider a tyre with the highest capability there is.

 

For a start, a stronger, stiffer side walled tyre may mean a much less 'wallowing' Motorhome that drives more like a car and less like a Boat. It might also mean a trade off in terms of less supple suspension and more Noise. But maybe this might be countered by fitting the stiffest, highest rated tyres only at the rear?

 

 

You might not stress your 99mph rated tyres at 65mph, but Jonny Herbert in his lowline PVC, 180bhp Merc, might drive down the Autobahn through Germany at 95 mph.

That is rather too close for comfort in my book, and something your response doesn't seem to take into account?.

 

 

It is accepted practise that going one size wider, from say 215 to 225 is safe and legal. Doing so not only benefits greater axle load safety margins, but generally the Speed ratings go up as well, with even greater grip, shorter braking, etc.

Going up one size AND increasing the speed rating could have massively beneficial effect on almost all Motorhomes behaviour.

Some of the narrower sizes are now actually dearer than a wider, safer tyre. As vehicles continually 'grow' upwards the narrower tyre sizes become less popular, so a tyre size increase may actually save money rather than cost more.

 

 

You read how some owners complain that certain vehicles 'spin their wheels' when negotiating a slope or pulling out of a tight round onto a main road. A higher speed rated tyre might make a big difference to the Traction?

 

 

As for the 'Tyre tests' I believe they should be taken with a pinch of Salt. They are very expensive to conduct scientifically, so there is nearly always a 'Sponser' who normally wants their investment repaid by good press for their product.

For example were all the tyres in the test identical speed ratings? Or did the sponser slip in their highest speed rating in that particular size versus the very lowest for the competition?

 

 

It seems to me that many focus solely on the load Index of a tyre, when the Speed rating and load index are tied together.

 

I have tried twice in two previous posts to get across this message about higher speed rating meaning greater safety, but the responses have just been along the lines of "we don't drive fast to need a higher speed rated tyre" so I am obviously doing a poor job of it.

 

However, I won't give up!! I persevered with the message on battery technology, it took 2 years, but that has changed the way many people think, so has been worth it.