Helene67 Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Hi all I wonder if you might give me some advice please? On 2 matters please if thats ok? I have an Autotrail Cheyenne 2006 696G which I have loved owning for the past 5 years As yet I haven't really camped off hook up apart for one night on the odd occasion but I wish to do more of this in the future, however we only have one leisure battery which I bought new 5 years ago to replace the existing 80AH battery which was fitted. The battery I fitted is a Banner 120AH. I now wish to add another leisure battery and have purchased the leads from Autotrail to do this, however, the 2nd battery box is not as big as the one the Banner battery sits in and so another Banner battery will not fit. The 2nd box is 24x31cm So my question is - is it ok to add another battery which is not the same make and is there a battery that would fit those dimensions and still provide 120AH? If not is it ok to add a 2nd battery that is less AH? My 2nd "problem" is that I had a leaking shower tap, which after looking on here I was able to fix - it was the cartridge that was the problem However, the tap lever was properly stuck fast to the end of the cartridge and in attempting to move it I turned the whole tap housing which goes into the actual shower wall and then pipes. I could here a "thunk" every time I turned it which was obviously the pipes going round behind the wall!!!! I finally got the tap off and repaired and the shower is working fine now with no leaks, however the "housing" into the wall is now loose tho' no leaks which is why I am loathe to try and turn it back again to tighten it in case I do incur leaks from turning the pipes again. Any advice please? Leave well alone or try and tighten it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Hello and welcome to the forum. I can't advise on the shower problem but with regards to the 2nd battery the usual advice is to have a matching pair. They should be the same age and ah so that the oldest/smallest is not pulling the other one down. My Motorhome was incorrectly fitted with a Banner Energy Bull underneath the passenger seat and was not really suitable for use in the habitation area (should have been in a sealed box with a vent pipe to the outside) and I also wanted to add a second battery. As mine was only about six months old I could have paired it with another of the same rating but, as I mentioned , it would have been inappropriate to put them in the habitation area as they were not the sealed, maintenance free type. In the end I received valuable advice and guidance on this forum, particularly from Alan at aandncaravans, and had two Varta LFD90 batteries fitted. This is important as it turns out they employ the latest technology and although not rated at 120ah they charge quicker, can be discharged deeper, will last longer and not degrade as quickly as older type batteries. As a bonus they were considerably cheaper than some big name batteries. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helene67 Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 Hi David thanks for the info. This is what l was worried about that the batteries would have to be the same make. My Banner battery currently installed is 110AH and l notice the Banner 90AH is a smaller length so would fit my battery box which is obviously vented and fitted with straps in both battery compartments So although l should fit batteries of the same age do you think a smaller amp new battery but same make would be OK? My current battery is still in a very healthy state so l am loathe to replace it too Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Helene67 - 2016-06-01 6:51 PM Hi David thanks for the info. This is what l was worried about that the batteries would have to be the same make. My Banner battery currently installed is 110AH and l notice the Banner 90AH is a smaller length so would fit my battery box which is obviously vented and fitted with straps in both battery compartments So although l should fit batteries of the same age do you think a smaller amp new battery but same make would be OK? My current battery is still in a very healthy state so l am loathe to replace it too Many thanks I'm no expert on the subject but from what I have gleaned on here in the past it is possible to pair the two (110ah and 90ah) but I believe the larger battery will only operate to the same capacity as the smaller one. I could be completely wrong though. However, as much as it seems like a terrible waste to replace your existing battery I do know that it is far preferable to fit two matching batteries I.e. The same make, type, age and capacity to get the best out of them The point I was making about the Varta type was that due to its new technology it outperforms all other types of battery - even more expensive makes. They are also zero maintenance so no checking the battery levels and topping up etc. If you do go down the route of changing both batteries you could always sell the Banner - when I had mine changed by the dealer I traded him my Banner (which was only six months old) for him installing the new Varta setup and also wiring in a solar charger monitor that I supplied. If you want some more information about the Varta and the topic of twin batteries have a look on the aandncaravanservices.co.uk website. They do not sell batteries so are quite impartial but have a wealth of knowledge and experience of battery technology. David P.S. If you visit the a and n caravans site click on the 'Battery Technolgy' tab at the top of the page to read about the Varta batteries. You could also email Alan to ask his opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I'm not sure about adding a new battery to a 5 year old battery but one of our resident experts, Alan from aandncaravan, recommends one of these two, Bosch L5 013 90Ah Deep Cycle and the Varta LFD90 Dual Purpose Leisure/Starter battery, as very suitable and considerably less expensive than the specialist batteries and two of them would probably cost less than one Banner. As for the shower, and without seeing, is it possible that a good run of silicone sealer around the outside of the head and worked well into any gap where it contacts the shower wall would locate it in place? Bit of a bodge maybe but might just work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 david lloyd - 2016-06-01 1: "My Motorhome was incorrectly fitted with a Banner Energy Bull underneath the passenger seat and was not really suitable for use in the habitation area (should have been in a sealed box with a vent pipe to the outside) and I also wanted to add a second battery. As mine was only about six months old I could have paired it with another of the same rating but, as I mentioned , it would have been inappropriate to put them in the habitation area as they were not the sealed, maintenance free type." I am sorry but I cannot wholly agree. The Banner battery should have been vented to the outside of the vehicle, but I do not see the necessity for a sealed box as well. Sorry I haven't mastered the art of quoting a single paragraph correctly. Please accept my apologies for any confusion. I am trying to consider the need for equal capacity batteries logically Firstly they should be of the same type, Flooded Lead Acid, Absorbed Gas Mat, or Gel, as they have different charge and discharge characteristics. In order to keep the battery characteristics as close as possible, it follows that they should be of the same make, and preferably age. As regards having identical capacities, while this is usual practice, I am not convinced that it is necessary. The larger battery will have a lower internal resistance, and will therefore supply a greater percentage of the load. Similarly it will take a greater percentage of the charging current. Has anyone got a different argument on this please? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Helene67 Received wisdom (and recommendations from battery manufacturers) is that an existing battery should not be more than one year old if another battery is to be connected to it. So connecting a new battery to your 5-years-old Banner would be very inadvisable. You’ve quoted 24cm x 31cm as the dimensions of your 2nd battery-box. I assume the 31cm relates to the box’s length, but it would be necessary to know the width and height of the box. I’m guessing that your present battery is an “Energy Bull” 95751 that has the dimensions shown in this advert https://www.tayna.co.uk/Banner-Energy-Bull-Leisure-Battery-95751-P8270.html but until the length, width and height of your 2nd battery-box are known, it’s impossible to say what Ah capacity battery would fit in it. If you have to have a smaller Ah-capacity battery in Box 2 so be it. If Box 2’s length is 31cm, then a Varta LFD90 battery would not fit (as it’s the same size as a Banner 95751) http://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/leisure/professional-dual-purpose/930-090-080 and you might be looking at pairing a LFD90 in Box 1 with a LFD75 in Box 2. As your battery-boxes are vented there’s less incentive to choose ‘maintenance free’ leisure batteries’, but a Varta LFD90 and a LFD75 should be an excellent cost-effective combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Alanb - 2016-06-01 11:17 PM david lloyd - 2016-06-01 1: "My Motorhome was incorrectly fitted with a Banner Energy Bull underneath the passenger seat and was not really suitable for use in the habitation area (should have been in a sealed box with a vent pipe to the outside) and I also wanted to add a second battery. As mine was only about six months old I could have paired it with another of the same rating but, as I mentioned , it would have been inappropriate to put them in the habitation area as they were not the sealed, maintenance free type." I am sorry but I cannot wholly agree. The Banner battery should have been vented to the outside of the vehicle, but I do not see the necessity for a sealed box as well. Sorry I haven't mastered the art of quoting a single paragraph correctly. Please accept my apologies for any confusion. I am trying to consider the need for equal capacity batteries logically Firstly they should be of the same type, Flooded Lead Acid, Absorbed Gas Mat, or Gel, as they have different charge and discharge characteristics. In order to keep the battery characteristics as close as possible, it follows that they should be of the same make, and preferably age. As regards having identical capacities, while this is usual practice, I am not convinced that it is necessary. The larger battery will have a lower internal resistance, and will therefore supply a greater percentage of the load. Similarly it will take a greater percentage of the charging current. Has anyone got a different argument on this please? . AlanB Just for information, if you select the post you want to use and click on the 'Quote' button at the bottom the text box will come up with the original message set between the word at the beginning and end of their message. If you place your cursor after the last - at the end of the message - then you can start typing your reply as normal. With regard to my comments about the Banner battery being inappropriate for use in the habitation area this relates to a previous thread in which I was seeking advice about replacing my battery with twin leisure batteries and it came to light then (through good advice from others) that my battery was not vented to the outside and, as it was situated beneath the passenger seat with no easy access, could not be readily checked and the levels topped up without actually removing the seat. As the Banner wet battery would gas off quite a bit due to the nature of my charging regime (sometimes without hookup for long periods etc) then it was vital that a) it should have been vented when installed and b) was not the most appropriate type of battery to install in a location where it could not be checked. Obviously, where the battery is situated in a sealed battery box that is vented to the outside and is accessible for regular maintenance then the Banner wet type is suitable. However, given the technical advice I was given on here regarding the Varta LFD90 and Bosch L5 range I could see no logical reason not to fit these as better alternatives - even if they had been located in more suitable places. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helene67 Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 Thanks very much for all the advice folks I found the original invoice for my Banner battery and turns out its 135AH not 110! I rang Banner today and their advice was pretty much same as all of you helpful folk but they weren't bothered about age Basically the 2nd battery box although the same height as the first is only 31cm long and the Banner 135 is 37cm long. Banner do make a 90AH which would fit at 27cm long, however, their advice - same as yours both batteries should be same make but MUST be same amp as if l fit a new 90AH the 135AH already fitted would only ever charge to 90AH so although l would have two batteries l wouldn't really be gaining much for the expense of replacing a perfectly working 135AH!!! So Banner advice use 135AH until it needs replaced then buy two new batteries of same age make and AMP so that's what l'm going to do Battery is still charging to at least 13.8 on my control panel so l'm guessing with light use ie lights in the evening and water pump l would be fine off hook up for the 3 nights l have planned in September? Thanks very much for all your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 If you have already got 5 years out of the Banner battery, we would suggest you have done very well. I am guessing that you have probably already noticed it's performance has dropped off, hence buying the leads to fit a second battery? We suggest that you consider replacing the old Banner if you are planning to be 'offgrid' for 3 days in September? My guess is that it won't last and if it does go, it might take the charger/Alternator with it? Suggest that if you have the slightest doubts about the battery, you don't risk it? Or, if you want to take the risk, how about hedging your bets? When it gets near to the date of the long trip, buy a quality 90Ah battery. Charge it fully off the van for 24 hours as most new batteries rarely arrive 'full'. Then fit it into the second battery box space, but don't connect it up. Should your Banner die half way through the holiday, you can wire in the new battery and remove the leads off the old Banner so it is out of circuit (insulate them carefully). When you return from the break, remove the old Banner battery and fit the second new 90Ah battery. We would suggest you don't go for anything above 90Ah x 2 unless you have someone check out the charger, Alternator and wiring are up to that kind of load? I agree with Tracker that Silicon, applied carefully, could provide a good bond for the Shower, assuming I understand what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Helene67 The “Parallel connection” advice in the following article may be of interest: http://caravanandmotorhomebooks.com/interconnecting-batteries-in-series-or-parallel/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veletron Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Hi For best results, I think you will need to splash out on a new pair of matched batteries. LFD90's would be a good choice. I don't rate Banner personally having had a set of 110's last 6 months. There is a thread on here about this - and as pointed out in that thread - yes, I am hard on batteries. I replaced these with a pair of Exide '142AH' batteries, these are much taller than the banners - check for clearance! They have performed faultlessly over the 6 months they have been in service. I use the van most weekends winter+summer have 200W worth of solar, run whatever I please off a 1KW inverter and never have a hookup. 6 months is too short a period for a recommendation on the Exides, but a long enough time to be able to report that they have out-lasted the banners and out performed them by a huge margin. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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