trevor166uk Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Hi I have just read on honest john's website that the x250 suffers gearbox problems losing 5th and 6th gears. Is this true?? I thought this was a problem of the x244, losing 5th but that it has been fixed for the x250. Does anyone know of it happening on the x250? On a similar vein I have read that an eye should be kept on the gearbox oil level to hopefully avoid problems with the box. Where is the level plug on an x250? Mine is a 2.3 6 speed. Thanks for your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Never hear of any problems I'm on my 2nd X250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 This is the part you are referring to, looks to me like somebody has no idea what they are 'talking' about. Whilst there was problems with reverse on the early ones I've never heard of problems with 5th and 6th, and there's one thing you can be sure of, if there was major problems it would be all over the motorhome forums. Drivetrain problem of failing clutches, dual-mass flywheels caused by over high reverse ratio. Less of a problem with 100bhp engines and 5-speed transmissions. Major problem for many of the larger/heavier vans which have either the 2.3 litre 130bhp or 3.0 litre 157bhp engines with 6-speed gearboxes. Seems that the old 4-speed box was adapted to 5-speed and 6-speed but the extra gears are not very well supported and failures are common, particularly on Sevel X250 based campers and motorhhomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 The website is comprehensive and informative, but some of the information on specific models is just plain wrong, it must depend on one or two comments. It said the Jaguar XJ had severe corrosion problems, but it's aluminium and no owners' club had reported any issues other than paint bubbles on door edges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 colin - 2016-06-11 8:02 PM This is the part you are referring to, looks to me like somebody has no idea what they are 'talking' about. Whilst there was problems with reverse on the early ones I've never heard of problems with 5th and 6th, and there's one thing you can be sure of, if there was major problems it would be all over the motorhome forums. Drivetrain problem of failing clutches, dual-mass flywheels caused by over high reverse ratio. Less of a problem with 100bhp engines and 5-speed transmissions. Major problem for many of the larger/heavier vans which have either the 2.3 litre 130bhp or 3.0 litre 157bhp engines with 6-speed gearboxes. Seems that the old 4-speed box was adapted to 5-speed and 6-speed but the extra gears are not very well supported and failures are common, particularly on Sevel X250 based campers and motorhhomes. There was a lot of adverse publicity relating to ‘juddering in reverse' problems with SEVEL X250 vehicles fitted with a manual transmission. The issue is summarised on this 2009 webpage: http://www.seered.co.uk/fiat.htm There were reports of major gearbox and clutch failures, and the consensus view at the time was that X250s with the 2.2litre motor and 5-speed gearbox were least affected. As far as I’m aware the 6-speed transmissions were a completely different design to the 5-speed gearboxes used on the preceding models. Nick Fisher (euroserv) will be able to say for certain, but I’m pretty sure that a Ducato X250 with 2.3litre motor and 6-speed manual transmission will not have a gearbox oil-level plug. (For what it’s worth, a Fiat Professional service manager told me recently that clutch slave-cylinder failure is relatively common for Ducato X250s. As the cylinder is located in the centre of the clutch assembly, replacement is expensive.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor166uk Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 Hi So if there is no level plug (and I am inclined to think you are right and there is not) how can I make sure it has the right amount of oil in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgnbuk Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 "So if there is no level plug (and I am inclined to think you are right and there is not) how can I make sure it has the right amount of oil in it?" Drain it out into a clean container & measure what comes out. A poor way of working, but it saves Fiat the cost of driiling & tapping a level hole and providing a bolt & sealing washer to close it. I would be inclined to buy the required quantity of the correct lubricant, drop the current contents & measure in the correct quantity of the new stuff. That's what I did with my X244, though the Fiat "Professional" garage initially supplied the wrong type of oil & the quantity specified in the Owner's Handbook appeared to have been increased according to a copy of the Fiat service manual. I was glad I checked & changed the oil on that van - only 1.5 litres of the wrong type of oil drained out & the gearchange was much lighter and the 'box quieter with more of the right oil installed. HTH Nigel B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 I thought the 2.3 engine didn't have a dual mass flywheel, if so the Honest John site is completely wrong and they need correcting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor166uk Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 I'm sure euroserv has said it doesn't. I previously thought the honest john website was a good source of information. But if it is so far out here what else has it got wrong? I agree about draining the oil being a good way of checking the amount in, but what a faff. Its no way to make a vehicle. I've never before had a vehicle with no way of simply checking the gearbox oil level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 trevor166uk - 2016-06-12 10:05 PM I previously thought the honest john website was a good source of information. But if it is so far out here what else has it got wrong? The one think I don't like about my Suzi is the large blind spot by the front quarter caused by the quarterlight design, more than once I've had a car seemingly appear from out of nowhere at a roundabout, here what HJ has to say about it. visibility is good, aided by large quarterlights in the A pillars It can be a good site for info, but it also has some glaring errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 trevor166uk - 2016-06-12 10:05 PM I agree about draining the oil being a good way of checking the amount in, but what a faff. Its no way to make a vehicle. I've never before had a vehicle with no way of simply checking the gearbox oil level. All my vehicles over the past decade have been like that - no level plug. I don't find it a problem, after all modern gearboxes are completely oil-tight. Any sign of oil on the exterior of the gearbox and you have a problem that will likely need the gearbox drained to repair anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Most gearboxes seem to be sealed nowadays, my Land Rover had a plug, but the instructions were, "if it stops leaking oil, it's empty" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 First, there have been no problems with gearboxes (even up to 250,000 miles!) except for some selector issues after the sort of mileages that you will never reach in a lifetime. We had some exploding clutches but they were due to the judder issue in reverse. This affected 2007 vehicles only. The gear oil will be correct unless you have a leak. It does not 'consume' oil so the only place it can go is the floor. I would recommend that the gear oil is always changed when the box is removed for a clutch or slave cylinder replacement otherwise it should be good for 10 years of regular use but if it sits for half of the year; perhaps reduce this to 5 or 6 years. The correct oil is a fully synthetic one that is designed to last for a very long time. 2.2 and 3.0 engined Ducato's have dual mass flywheels and up to and including Euro 5 2.3's do not. The new Euro 6 vehicles that have just been launched ALL HAVE DMF's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor166uk Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 All my vehicles over the past decade have been like that - no level plug. I don't find it a problem, after all modern gearboxes are completely oil-tight. Any sign of oil on the exterior of the gearbox and you have a problem that will likely need the gearbox drained to repair anyway. I'm sure you are right, but that is typical of modern vehicles. They may be reliable these days, but they have much about them I don't like. Awful electric handbrakes for instance, that cost a fortune when they go wrong (which they do). Also so many don't come with a spare wheel any more. Some even don't have anywhere to put one if you choose to buy one yourself. Also some have bulbs that are absolute murder to change. The gene pool of suitable cars I can choose from shrinks every time I buy a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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