lap top phone

[mansell]

Hi, would like as much info as to ease of use, cost etc. etc. And to what sort of lap top to buy for our extended trips. keep trying it will happen.

[mom]

I can't help too much on costs as my phone bill is paid by the company, but I do have a Vodaphone 3G laptop phone that autotries for 3G and GPRS and works like a charm.  It also connects to Vodaphone WiFi hotspots if they are available.  The maximum data transfer is 50 Meg per month before you start paying extra, but I am not sure of the base cost.  You don't pay for time, only the data transfered.

I am on that device as we speak.  The speed is quite acceptable and I must admit, when connected to 3G (only available in some parts), I would consider it close to home broadband.  It would be interesting to further investigate Onspeed (http://www.onspeed.com) as a means of speeding things up and reducing the data transfer rate (stretch that 50 Meg further).  Depending on needs, you can also switch off the automatic download of images, sound files etc in your Internet Explorer Tools/Internet Options/Advanced/Multimedia configuration.  This would help save a "lot" of money.

So, for occasional use, I find the device perfect.  But it may be cost prohibitive to spend serious time on the internet.

As to choice of laptop, again depends on needs.  But if you want a simple one to play DVDs, do email, write letters and surf the internet, base model Dell is as good as any.  If you need more out of the computer such as serious graphics work or widescreen multimedia, then you need to talk to people in the shop, and I'm sure others in this forum will be able to help.

[Don Madge]

[QUOTE]mansell - 2006-11-26 10:51 AM Hi, would like as much info as to ease of use, cost etc. etc. And to what sort of lap top to buy for our extended trips. keep trying it will happen.[/QUOTE] Barrie, We have two laptops a Dell and a Toshiba. You know were we are if you want to look at them while they are up and running. Regards Don

[Frankkia]

[QUOTE]mom - 2006-11-26 11:12 AM

It would be interesting to further investigate Onspeed (http://www.onspeed.com) as a means of speeding things up and reducing the data transfer rate (stretch that 50 Meg further).

[/QUOTE] As I have only recently been able to get B/band where we live I have been using Onspeed for a couple of years both on dial up and whilst on the move using a mobile and bluetooth con for the laptop. It does what it says on the tin and speeds up an otherwise slow connection very well. Depends very much on what you use it for - JPEG files = little different so not good for sending photos. e.mails = great. Before buying in to it though check it will work with your ISP. AOL for example run their own "Topspeed" compression and Onspeed is not compatible - there are also other ISPs with similar compression so check yours is ok.

[mansell]

Thanks for that Don, might just do that It is the Internet phone that interests us most, and the cost ease of use etc.

[Don Madge]

Barrie, I'm getting the details on the Datacard from the MHT site, I'll keep you posted. Don

[trigrem]

Hi Mansell I connect my laptop to my mobile phone ( Nokia 3220 ) which has a GPRS connection via Orange, I also useOn-Speed to speed thing up. I disable images and sound files and auto downloads in order to reduce the amount of data transmitted. I only pay for data transmitted not time on phone. I only use it for e-mail when i cannot find an internet cafe, so do not find it expensive. Except when abroad. Latest costs for various countries can be found on the Orange website. doug

[fjmike]

I maybe wrong but what mansell is probably after is info on using Skype or similar with a laptop on a wifi connection, but ther again he may not :-D

[mansell]

Hi, Thats exactly what I am after anyone a clue.

[Don Madge]

[QUOTE]mansell - 2006-11-28 9:06 AM Hi, Thats exactly what I am after anyone a clue.[/QUOTE] Barrie, Both our laptops are set up with Skype, it's the greatest thing since sliced bread (after the refillable gas bottle and solar panel of course) I often chat to friends in the UK also I have spoken to people all over the world for free and the reception is fantastic. We also have a web cam so you can see who you are talking to. You can also take the webcam away with you and I've even seen people using them in internet cafes. Regards Don

[Brian Kirby]

Don

For those among us, like me, who are completely uninitiated, could you please spare the time to explain, in some detail what it is, how it works, and what you need to be able to use it, and (roughly) what are the costs?

For motorhome use, I assume one must have a roamable internet connection?  But how, exactly, does one arrange that outside UK?  Does one use an aircard, or a mobile, to connect?  What standard connection does one need, GPRS, 2.5G or 3G?  Does one dial into one's UK ISP from wherever?  If not, how does one connect to the internet, WiFi hotspots?  If the latter, how does one gain access from these, and what security issues are concerned?  I believe Skype is voice over internet?  I assume, therefore, on needs, at least, a mike?  If so, how does one call someone else - don't they have to be online at the same time you are?  How is this arranged - by calling at pre-arranged times?

I know, I know - so many questions!  However, I like to think I'm half computer literate, whereas poor old Barrie - if he'll forgive the assumption - seems to be starting from a less informed starting point even that me, and I've absolutely no idea at all how this stuff works!

If too detailed for the Forum, is there a book/magazine that gives the necessary?

With apologies,

[mom]

I have been using skype for quite some time now. To install, go to http://www.skype.com/intl/en-gb/ and choose download and follow the bouncing ball.

Skype provides free calls to other computerised skype users.  It requires your laptop to have a microphone and speaker.  Not all laptops have a microphone, and some that do don't necessarily have them activated or at the best sensitivity setting for proper use.  It may require some fiddling about in Control Panel to get the inbuilt microphone working.  However, for a tenner or less you can pick up a cheap and nasty external microphone from one of the computer stores.

There are three types of skype call...
1. To another skype user computer
2. To a normal landline anywhere in the world - "SkypeOut"
3. Callers calling in to you - "SkypeIn"

If skyping another skyper, it is free.  You just need to know the other's callsign and that person needs to be online.

SkypeOut requires you to buy skype-credits, a creditcard transaction on the internet to buy packages of 10 or more Euros.  You then make calls at special skype rates till you run out of money.  All the expected alerts are there.  The beauty is that if you call someone, in Australia say, the call costs are only from the local skype server near the person being called.  The big international hop is a free internet jump.  These skype calls are very cheap, and you can make up to 3 (or more?) calls at once and conference in your family and friends from all over the world at the same time.

SkypeIn is a concept whereby you pay a fee and you are allocated up to 10, I think, phone numbers local to people in their own country.  That is, say you have a friend in Oz and a friend in the US.  You will be given a US local number and an Australian local number that your friends use at a local rate and the call finds it's way to your computer!  This was being trialled last time I looked.  Not sure of it's status at the moment.

The BIG question is how well will skype work on a slow line such as GPRS?  The previous discussion in this thread mistakenly went the way of internet cards, but this is still valid if you travel away from WiFi locations.  I have yet to test at GPRS or 3G speeds, but I will have a try tonight.

Hope this helps.

[Don Madge]

Hi Brian Mom has covered most of it but here's my less technical offering :-D You can download Skype free from http://tinyurl.com/ylphmq Both our laptops have built in mics/speakers but I do have a head set because I'm a bit hard of hearing. We also have a web cam which I find very useful when my grandson is trying to help me sort out a computer problem. We use Skype at home quite a bit, you can have voice or chat, I prefer voice as my typing is appalling. 8-) I've spoken to friends in OZ, NZ and Pakistan as well as in Europe. I've only used it abroad with a wireless connection and it was the same as using it at home. In Turkey I've seen people chatting away with their web cam working in the internet cafes It's very simple to use or I would not be using it. I don't pay to use any of their services. Brian install Skype and we can have a chat to check it out :-D Regards Don

[mom]

Brian

Skype is a friendly small piece of software that you load onto your PC (it is safe), that looks like a kind of phone dialer with a nice phone book.  You add people's callsigns as entries to the phonebook and so long as you are on the internet then it will tell you who in your phonebook is online at any given time.  The software is free, no gimics.  All calls to other skype users on PCs are free to anywhere in the world, no gimics.  For calls to regular landlines, 10 Euros will go a long way.  I don't have details on how many calls or how long, but the skype program keeps you update with timers and cost etc.
Skype needs a PC microphone and speaker.  You may have to purchase a cheak microphone, but it should plug straight into your external microphone jack.  See my other post for more detail.

All this depends on you being online.  How you get online is another huge subject, but it has been covered a lot recently in various threads.  WiFi, PCMCIA based laptop phonecards, InfraRed or Bluetooth or cable connection to a GPRS enabled mobile phone.  All these methods have their own personality issues.  But Skype doesn't care, so long as the connection is reasonably fast.  I am going to test my GPRS card tonight and report back on effectiveness with skype.

As to security: Not sure on this, but I would never say it was totally secure.  However, there are often millions of users on so if it were a problem, we would know about it. 

[Brian Kirby]

OK Guys, many thanks.  Now, for the Bear of Little Brain, one step at a time please.

First step: I'm outside the UK, in my motorhome, say on a campsite. 

I'll therefore need an internet connection.  How do I do that? 

I know I could use a mobile as a modem, but what kind of mobile works best?  What are the costs?  (From my own very limited experiments a few years back, the answer was very slow and very expensive!  I therefore gave up before being declared bankrupt!)

I also know I can use a data card (Vodafone or similar).  But again, what works and at what cost?

If I have a WiFi enabled computer, I can use that if I'm near a hot spot.  However, I've no idea how to do that.  Do I dial into my normal UK ISP, or do I have to get a subscription for each country I visit, do I need additional software, or what?

Sorry chaps, but I just have no idea how to make all this stuff work once I leave home.  If you're kind enough to respond, I'll reward you with further questions!  Promise!

[Don Madge]

Brian, I don't have any technical knowledge but here goes. When we use the lap top and mobile phone (Nokia 63101 it's a few years old now) in Turkey our orange bill would be around £150 per month. This was before the days of wifi. Our lap top is wifi enabled and on the last trip to Istanbul with the wifi it was free in the hotels, in the Istanbul hotel you just needed a pass word to get logged on and then you just connected as normal. In the Budapest hotel you did not need a pass word at all. I just used a wifi hotspot detector to find the best signal. In Macdonalds and Starbucks (I think that's how you spell it) we found sometimes you got the code number on your receipt or you asked at the counter, this was in Hungary, I don't know about anywhere else. Skype worked well in both places, I used it a couple of times with no problems at all. It's easier than sending e mails you can just chat away for free. Regards Don

[Brian Kirby]

Don

So you take your laptop to a hotel/cafe.  Boot it, and set it to search for wireless networks.  Having found a network, maybe several, you may be able to log on directly, or you may need a password.  This service may be free or may be chargeable. 

But, to what do you log on?  Would this be, for example a Turkish ISP, working in Turkish?  Or do you just somehow go to your usual UK ISP?  For e-mail do you use Hotmail (or similar), or your usual UK e-mail address?  Do your security settings (say Norton Internet Security, firewall etc) block access and need to be re-set?

Sorry for the further questions; as you can see, I really don't understand what is involved.

Thanks

[John H]

Hi Brian, I don't think it matters if it is a Turkish ISP, it's just a connection to the internet. When you do connect, you will automatically be directed to your chosen home page and from there, you can use your favourites or any internet address you want to go to. For email messages, you should use a one of the web based ones such as hotmail or gmail etc. which you can access from anywhere in the world. You shouldn't have a problem with your security settings unless you go on any dodgy websites. Regards, John.

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks John

At last, the mists begin to lift! 

So, in effect, you don't get stuck into some foreign language default browser page, it just burrows back to your regular homepage.  Now that is good news!

Webmail etc I understand OK.  However, I'm now a bit confused as the the reason for needing this.  Surely, if you can connected back to your regular homepage, you can connect to your regular e-mail?  No?

Thanks again

[mansell]

Thanks brian for asking all the questions I didnt know how to.

[Don Madge]

[QUOTE]Brian Kirby - 2006-11-29 1:50 PM

Don

So you take your laptop to a hotel/cafe.  Boot it, and set it to search for wireless networks.  Having found a network, maybe several, you may be able to log on directly, or you may need a password.  This service may be free or may be chargeable. 

But, to what do you log on?  Would this be, for example a Turkish ISP, working in Turkish?  Or do you just somehow go to your usual UK ISP?  For e-mail do you use Hotmail (or similar), or your usual UK e-mail address?  Do your security settings (say Norton Internet Security, firewall etc) block access and need to be re-set?

Sorry for the further questions; as you can see, I really don't understand what is involved.

Thanks

[/QUOTE] Brian, What with you not understanding and me not very good at explaining it's going to be a very steep learning curve. With the lap top, once I've got a connection I click on IE and my home page comes up (Tiscali) I then carry on just like at home ie using my favorites etc. There is one big difference when you are away from home you can recieve e mails but you can't send them. To send a mail I log on to my Tiscali account and send the mail from there. It seems you can only send mail from from your home address or something like that. For example take Turkey, if I use a computer in a Turkish internet cafe. I switch to EN on the lower tool bar, then I click on IE and go to www.tiscali.co.uk, I log on and check my mail there. Then as you have no access to your favorites you have to manually put in all the URL's of the sites you want to visit etc. It takes time using this method that's why I like using my lap top. Another problem in Turkey is the keyboard is different. The upper and lower case are not always on the same key. I now need to go and lie down, where are all these computer wizards, they're never about when you need one. Don

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]mansell - 2006-11-29 4:05 PM Thanks brian for asking all the questions I didnt know how to.[/QUOTE]

Val

Don't thank me - I'm not at all sure I've got the questions right!  The real heroes are Don, Michael and John for their answers!

[Brian Kirby]

[QUOTE]Don Madge - 2006-11-29 4:07 PM  Brian, What with you not understanding and me not very good at explaining it's going to be a very steep learning curve. With the lap top, once I've got a connection I click on IE and my home page comes up (Tiscali) I then carry on just like at home ie using my favorites etc. There is one big difference when you are away from home you can recieve e mails but you can't send them. To send a mail I log on to my Tiscali account and send the mail from there. It seems you can only send mail from from your home address or something like that. For example take Turkey, if I use a computer in a Turkish internet cafe. I switch to EN on the lower tool bar, then I click on IE and go to www.tiscali.co.uk, I log on and check my mail there. Then as you have no access to your favorites you have to manually put in all the URL's of the sites you want to visit etc. It takes time using this method that's why I like using my lap top. Another problem in Turkey is the keyboard is different. The upper and lower case are not always on the same key. I now need to go and lie down, where are all these computer wizards, they're never about when you need one. Don[/QUOTE]

Thanks again Don.  I'm getting there slowly, honest!!

[mom]

Brian,

I think one of the reasons why some of the techos haven't jumped in with highly definitive answers is that still, in 2006, "computers ain't easy"!  If your computer is not currently set perfectly to seek WiFi sites or does not have a driver for a phone-card or doesn't have the right settings to drive your GPRS phone, then the explanation on how to do it, fault-find, tune etc would stretch the capacity of this forum.  Suffice to say for WiFi, though, that if your computer says "centrino" on a badge somewhere, or you believe you should have it, then it will all just work once the right settings are made.

Just a few pseudo-technical words to flesh out some of the issues previously answered...

We should really consider the Web and the Internet as two unrelated things.  The Web was developed by Tim Burners-Lee, initially as an ability to share files and documents around the office, essentially on a local network.  At that time, the Internet, a worldwide interconnection of University and Military based networks, was busy with things like Email, FTP file transfers and the like. 

The Internet:
The internet is like the roads and highways in a country.  They enable you to go all over the place, but they, by themselves, do nothing more than provide the pathways.  Just as we need the roads to go from point A to B, we need the internet to send and receive from point A to B.
As an interesting aside, the internet was actually designed by the Military as a means of creating an information system that could have a piece of it knocked out by warfare and survive because there would always be another way around.  Just sending 2 words on the internet can have one word go via unimelb, the University of Melbourne, Australia, and the other via an obscure server in Canada.  Both words arrive where they should in the right order.
Anyway, to be on the internet, we need two things... a connection, and permission. 
The connection:
The connection can be a wire from the office wall to your computer (behind the wall, the wire heads off to a local router, which in turn is connected to a bigger remote router, which in turn is connected to a bigger... this is the internet). The connection can also be WiFi, a radiowave connection to the same routers.  It can also be a modem, which can make calls on a normal telephone line to, wait for it, a router.  Using a mobile phone or phone card is actually using these devices as modems calling a router somewhere.  What is a router?  In simplistic terms, a router is a box that connects to a bigger router up the line, or to a similar router next door.  If you send information on the internet, routers don't necessarily know where to send it, but they know which other router might know, and send it on until one is found that knows.  BT will have a big router, but whoever BT connects to will have an even bigger one.  The internet is really thousands and thousands of routers all joined directly or indirectly by wires, telephone lines, radiowaves, satellites.  And when your computer connects to one of these routers, it is given a unique number and that action made the internet bigger by one computer. Yours.  I've missed out other bits like hubs, bridges, server modems etc.  But that would confuse things.  Oh, and there is one other way to connect, by going to an internet cafe where they have one already connected.

Permission:  Dialing into a router (the internet) is half the battle.  None of this is free and you usually have to pay someone.  If you have broadband at home, you are already paying.  You will have a username and password that is sent when the connection is established via your phone line.  That proves who you are and what account to charge.  Otherwise, they would have no idea who or which computer is calling.  If your computer WiFi connects you to one of these "HotSpots", you get as far as that HotSpot router, but you have yet to pay.  So they let you sit on the internet, but they intercept your activity.  When you open a browser to go on google or your favourite site, that activity is again intercepted and you are instead taken to a payment page.  Once you pay (usually by credit card, though you might have already bought a voucher) and are given a username and password, then the interception is cancelled for the purchased time period.  If you use a phone-card or mobile phone, Vodaphone or Orange or whomever know who is calling and automatically charge your account.  You aren't intercepted (although Vodaphone block questionable sites, even wine stores in Calais!!! so you would need to contact them to unblock you!).
All of this got you onto the internet.  Nothing more.

Email:
Once sitting on the internet road system, you can now drive different cars and trucks.  Email is really a computer (thousands of these exist)  out there on the internet which has the job of storing your email files until you pick them up.  Like a poste-restant at the local post office.  When you run your own computer email program (like outlook or eudora or dozens of others), you are contacting that particular postoffice computer (lets call it the email server) and transfering your email to your computer for viewing.  The same works in reverse for sending.  So, to do your email you need the internet connection first, then the email program on your PC. 
Most email servers offer you a non-download means of doing email.  Your "web browser" can connect to the email server directly and enable you to view and send email from that server.  Internet cafe computers don't have email download programs (everyone could read everyone else's email in the cafe), so they only offer you the browser option.  But you need to know the speciific address to get to the email server, and your email login and password.  You got this when you originally created your email account.

World Wide Web:
The web is not the internet.  It uses the internet as the road system.  So, again, you need that internet connection.  How you achieve that internet connection, the web doesn't care.  The web is run by computers called web servers, a bit like email servers, but whereas email is only addressed to specific individuals, a page of web data may directly link to several other pages, and through those eventually link to millions of pages in hundreds of thousands of web servers.  To use the web, you start your web browser program (e.g. internet explorer) and ask to go to a specific page on a specific server and show it to you.  Via an elaborate indexing system, called the DNS, you can just specify a wordy address and the web servers and DNS in co-operation will find the page and give it to you.  Every time you click a link to a new page the same process occurs.

So, just in finishing, if you have a laptop and take it with you to Europe, all your own settings will already exist in your computer.  Google, in English, is http://www.google.co.uk, no matter where you are.  You will have your email server details, web browser favourites etc all on your computer.  Remember, even if your email server is in the UK, with the internet it doesn't matter once you get that initial connection established.  The only hurdle might be that initial intercepted payment page for a WiFi connection.  There is a chance that it is in another language, but almost always there is a button to push for English. 
If you decide to use an internet cafe, the PC is already connected, so start a browser and go to google.co.uk or wherever and it is just like at home.  However, as Don says you may need a cheatsheet of those favourites you visit, like this forum!, although most things are found via google anyway.  You will definitely need the special email server browser address, login and password to read your email.

Sorry if I got carried away!  I just wanted to show the separation of the internet and its layers (email, web etc).  I could probably have said it all in one statement!!!

[Don Madge]

Mom, Thanks for that. When I take my laptop away I can receive mail but not send, is there a way around this other than logging on to my Tiscali account. Don