Battery charging with Waeco 1500 aircon

[Archiesgrandad]

I recent;y removed the roof mounted WAECO 1500 AC\DC aircon unit from the van, and thought I would also remove the Mains Inverter unit as well. Big Mistake, I hadn't realised that when the unit was installed in 2008, it was also wired into the van electrical system as well, so that when on main hook-up the inverter would charge the habitation battery, so now I cannot charge the habitation battery on hook-up. I could really use some help.

The van is a1997 Pilote Galaxy, and as standard is fitted with a Schaudt 268 control panel and there is a whole load of equipment in the base of the galley unit which I can't begin to fathom. The Waeco inverter is an ECW-1500 unit, and there is also a charge current distributor ECL-750 connected to it.

I think the aircon is intended to run directly off the mains when on hookup, with a charge of up to 3amps going into the habitation battery as needed. When on the road the inverter would use the uotput of the engine alternator to provide the mains power that the aircon unit needed. The ECL-750 unit is to moniter the output from the alternator and if the voltage is too high or too low it will cut off the aircon in order to prevent damage to the alternator.I think that when the engine is running the habitation battery is charged directly by the alternator..

I can probably work out how to re-install the inverter if I have to, but I can now begin to understand why a local dealer declined to work on the electrics because in their words the wiring is compromised.

Does anyone know anything about these units, or alternatively, should I try to restore the origional wiring system. There is no wiring diagram in the Pilote handbook.

I know I should have read the handbook first, but I didn't, and now I have to work it out. Any help will be appreciated.

AGD

[aandncaravan]

I am struggling to see how an Inverter turning 12v Alternator power into 240v for the Aircon might also charge the battery efficiently when you connect 240v?

 

In any case any 'battery charger' function is likely to be poor quality in that both the voltage and current will be low. Most likely only 13.5v and 8amp max? Your '3 amps' quote is an indication it isn't great?

 

I would suggest that a modern £70 charger with a 14.4v and 18amps going straight to the battery would be a far better investment than putting back the Inverter, if indeed that is also the charger? It will save a lot of weight as well which I guess is mounted high up at ceiling level?

Might be easier with a new install to also include a switch to bring the Starter battery into the mains charger circuit to top that up now and again?

[Archiesgrandad]

Thank you for your prompt response Alan, I have been doing a bit more research before I responded.

To start from the beginning, the van, as standard, has a system that should charge either battery from the EHU, and it has to be switched between batteries manually, there is also a switch to switch the charging system on or off. A few months ago the engine battery died and had to be replaced, and since then I have not been able to charge the engine battery when on EHU, and I cannot check the voltage via the main switch panel, as I could before, at this stage the habitation battery was working as it should, and the Waeco system was still fitted. There is an earlier thread about this, but I have not been able to resolve this problem.

I removed aircon because it didn't work (needs new seals and regass), and I was on a mission to remove weight(40kilos), and whilst I was trying to lose weight I removed the inverter, big mistake, it weighs hardly anything and had I realised that it was somehow involved in charging the battery I would have left it alone.

There appears to have been an awful lot of extra bits of wire and fuses added at some point, and I am not inclined to start messing around with it.

I like the idea of fitting a new battery charger, essentially to charge the habitation battery, and might consider charging the engine battery as well, and I am planning to fit a solar panel as well at some point,are there any pitfalls, or anything else that I need to consider before I do so?

The user manual for the aircon specifically states that the inverter also puts a 3 amp charge into the battery, and when the habitation battery went completely flat I assumed that in removing the inverter I had removed the facility to charge the battery, I suppose there could be another cause.

I am truly grateful for your help.

AGD

[Charles]

Our 1000w pure sine wave inverter has got a 230v input socket on it that's for charging the battery but I haven't used it.

If it were me, I'd fit a new charger/power supply.

[aandncaravan]

3amps isn't really much of a charge, so I think you are better off without it?

 

Yes quite a few potential pitfalls to Solar Power, judging by the number of poor ones we see. We come across very few that are cabled as recommended by the Motorhome manufacturer and the Motorhome Electronics supplier.

 

In your case, with the age of the vehicle, that probably isn't too important? However, there is a Solar Power Hints and Tips page on our website here : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/solar-power.php that might be a good start point? It is not Sales based so not trying to sell anything.

 

Suggest you use any standalone charger, leisure shop direct have some good units that suit most budgets. Remember the cheaper ones are cheaper for a reason.

For example the Sargent 'Supercharger' is low power and has a fixed 13.8v so may not get a battery fully charged, and take longer to get near that, but is only about £70.

The Sargent PX300 is double the power with variable 14.4v 3 stage unit but is over £100. See also the Sargent website shop.

Note that neither are optimised for an AGM battery. You are probably better off with a Wet acid battery the same as the starter battery, then when the Habitation charging system is set for 'Wet' it will also be optimised for the Starter battery.

 

 

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[StuartO]

Aandncaravans is bending over backwards to avoid appearing to be touting for business but I suggest that if you are facing a rat's nest of someone else's adaptations which needs unscrambling and you have reached the limits of your own capacity to comprehend and rationalise, taking your MH to aandncaravans and letting them sort things out would be a good idea. 

 

A bit of radical surgery to clear away the obsolete wiring would be a good start, the repair to the original standard as necessary, including installing a suitable charger and controller, maybe as original.  If you had a Schaudt Display Unit does/did the MH also have a Schaudt Electroblok and if so is the charger in that still functional or repairable?  Aandncaravans should certainly be able to sort that for you.

 

[PJay]

We also recently removed our roof air con, for the same reason weight. Also removed the inverter, as that was the part not working, aircon worked on ehu.Don't think we have any problems, but as we have not been able to used the van yet this year, hope we don't find any!

PJay

As you are in FRANCE, it would not be practical to take to ALAN

 

I don't envy you trying to get help over there!

PJAY

[aandncaravan]

Pjay, Yes but Allan WOULD like an expenses paid trip to France to help!!!! We charge just one euro an hour on expenses paid trips like this and would be free any weeks in August!!.

 

Stuart, thank you appreciated.

The Schaudt IT268 display unit is normally paired with the Schaudt EBL 264-3 Charger/Power controller, that was why I expressed surprise when the OP said that the Inverter charged the battery and since removal, the battery doesn't charge.

I have never worked on a vehicle like this so it could be wired very differently to the stuff we normally see.

 

 

AGD, If you have an EBL 264 stashed away some where in a cupboard, it does have built in charging capability. If it wasn't being utilised previously, maybe you could bring it into action now?

I have some documentation on both the IT 268 and EBL 264, it's in French but presumably that won't be an issue if you live there? Just email us.

 

 

Maybe the EBL 264 was the charger and as part of the Inverter removal you accidentally cut 240v supply that went from the Inverter onto the EBL 264 in a 'loop/ring'?

 

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Might this download shed some light on what was installed? http://www.southdownsmotorcaravans.co.uk/accessories/waeco/sdmc_waeco_otm_2007_ac.pdf It seems to describe the Easycool and charging current distributor installation, and gives a simplified indication of what is wired to which on page 101.

[Archiesgrandad]

FThank you all so much for your help, and yes Stuart, if we were in the UK I'm sure that Alan would have sorted it out by now, but here in France I don't think my schoolboy French would get us anywhere.

My current thought is to go for a stand alone battery charger for the habitation battery, but first I need to try to make sure that there is nothing connected that will cause problems when the battery is charging, I also need to investigate why the light that indicates that there is mains electricity in the the van is not lit when I know that the power is there and powering a fan to keep me cool.

The wiring in this van is really quite messy, with extra fuses, relays and heaven only knows what all over the place, and inevitably this stuff is all hidden in places which I as a rather large, rather elderly old man, find difficult to get at, but I do try to sort things out. I can no longer stand on my head to reach these obscure places, but I agree that I need to find the original charger unit, it must be somewhere because the aircon wasn't fitted until 2008, and I must find out why the mains light isn't on.

I am so grateful for the help you have given to me, and many others who are part of this forum, and I would be delighted to fund an expenses paid trip out here, but all I could afford would be a day return bus ticket and a big packet of sandwiches, but if that's OK Allan just let me know. If any of your are in this lovely part of France, we have a very good aire de service which is only 200 yards from our home, and our little town of Prayssac has 2 good supermarkets both selling cheap fuel, plus a good selection of other shops, and we have a really good caravan/motorhome repairer, Run Caravan which is about 15 miles away, and they speak good English and are very helpful. If you ever get here Allan, dinner is on me. For the rest of you its a coffee or a glass of wine.

It'll be a few days before I can do much to the van because we are putting a new roof on the barn, and they keep asking me to help., so many thanks to one and all.

AGD

[aandncaravan]

Brian, that link is helpful, thank you.

 

AGD, if the sandwiches are Chip Butties, it's a deal :-S

Proper British big Chips mind, not those stick 'French Fries'. My 4 year old Daughter loves eating Daddies sandwiches and she wouldn't forgive me if they were not 'proper'.

 

The 'Mains connected' LED lamp is driven by the Schaudt EBL 264 charger 12v output. It only lights when 230v mains is connected and the charger starts up. So, if the charger has failed or has lost it's 230v supply, the light will not illuminate, even when you have 230v at the '13A' sockets.

 

I would suggest that they maybe took a 230v spur from the same cable that fed the EBL 264-3 and it has been broken when you removed the Aircon? Or the charger inside the EBL has failed?

Were there '2' x 230v cables going up to the Aircon unit, as one of them might have been going on to feed other devices, like the EBL? If there was re-joining them in a 230v junction box might bring things back to life?

 

When you find the Schaudt EBL 264, or whatever model it is, check it has a 230v supply? See photo for an example EBL model.

 

If you do go for a standalone charger it won't light up the '230v connected' LED but will charge the batteries ok.

[Derek Uzzell]

AGD

 

Dare I say this, but if your Pilote’s electrics are as non-standard and as messy as you seem to be suggesting and you are confident in the abilities of Run Caravaning at Cahors (who can communicate with you in English) wouldn’t it be wiser to get them to look at your motorhome rather than fiddle with it yourself?

 

There may be very little wrong with the present system, but the chances of you diagnosing by guess and by God where the problems lie seem small to me - and playing about with the vehicle without really understanding what you are doing is more likely to do harm than good.

[Archiesgrandad]

Thank you all your input, the problem is resolved. I have found the Schaudt charging unit, it was hidden beneath a false floor in the bottom of a cupboard, and I have switched it on. Perfect, the battery is now charging as it should and the indicator light is on. CG has admitted to looking under the false floor board whilst we were clearing the van out when we were expecting to sell it, although she has not accepted that she must have knocked the switch.

I suppose the bad news Allan is that I am withdrawing my offer of the expenses paid day trip to South Western France, I can no longer justify the expense, I do hope that your little girl is not too disappointed. But,if ever you do find yourself in these parts, I owe you.

Derek, in some ways I agree with you about sorting it out once and for all, and if we had needed to do some real fixing and mending I might make a case for it, but it was only a switch that was accidentally knocked, and it was just a coincidence that I took the aircon out before I noticed that the battery was not charging, so I am content to leave it alone.

On a more important note, we can only get English style fish and chips on Fridays, so you need to time your visits for that.

AGD

[aandncaravan]

AGD, I did relay this to my little 4 year old and she was more excited about the Chip buttie than the trip to France!! :-)

So I don't think it's an issue.

 

However, I should point out that no one in the whole World, the Universe and Margate, knows more about the Schaudt Elektroblock EBL 264 than me so if you have any more problems, just book the ferry tickets for the Family and myself and we will be there. (lol)

 

 

[StuartO]

Archiesgrandad - 2016-07-01 10:01 AMThank you all your input, the problem is resolved. I have found the Schaudt charging unit, it was hidden beneath a false floor in the bottom of a cupboard, and I have switched it on. Perfect, the battery is now charging as it should....

Good news indeed.  Worth checking what sort of solar panel regulator you have and how it's connected.  If it's a Schaudt unit, connected to the Electroblok via a multipin plug you are in luck and should have a robust and reliable system.  The rats nest wiring and fuses are probably leftovers from someone's attempt to add accessories and may be irrelevant.