kimba Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Hello I am happy to have found this site you have some interesting detailed topics going on, with a very good knowledge base. My question I have a boat and right now I have Numax Sealed Leisure Battery 12V 75Ah four in total 300Ah. Each one has a battery status indicator on top each showing green as good. I have a 280 watt solar panel to keep everything topped up, and a mttp controller my bank does not go higher than 13.5v. My use 12v TV, 12v cd player, lighting, water pump, re-charging of devices and torches and soon to be powering a laptop. The bank is independent from my starter battery so I do not require that battery need. I would like around 200/300Ah to add to this bank and not spend more than £300. Been looking at Banner and Varta. Any suggestions? and I would like to know if adding different type batteries to this bank is a nono? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Conventional wisdom is that you should stick to batteries of the same type and age in the same bank of batteries, so simply adding some extra batteries in parallel with what you've got might be asking for trouble. Have you got space to add more solar panels as well as batteries, because you would probably need some more generating capacity. If your existing batteries are in good condition, it might be worth considering having a second bank of batteries, supported by their own solar panel array, isolated from the original set. You could use these two banks of batteries to carry the service load in turn by means of a heavy duty changeover switch (I had one on my boat, still got it in the garage!) and link them in parallel if necessary, although of course not ordinarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 If it is true that your voltage never goes above 13.5 volts then your battery bank is not getting fully charged. Adding bateries will not make any difference. You may need more solar, or you could modify the panels to tilt towards the Sun. This improves solar output considerably. For a boat, you could easily modify the panels by using window friction hinges as in this link. https://www.double-glazing-parts-repairs.co.uk/category-friction-stays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Are you intending to increase your capacity to 500>600 A/h? With the load you have indicated this is way over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veletron Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Hi The 13.5V might not be the 'true' charging voltage as the batteries will load the charging device and drag the voltage down - however, one would expect, right at the end of the charge when the batteries are close to 100%, the charging device to still be feeding 14.4V+ into the batteries for an hour or so, and the loading to be low such that any meter would actually read 14.4V. If you really want to know whats going on with your batteries, buy a NASA BM1 meter. As for batteries, I did not have much luck with my 2x110AH banners - they barely lasted 6 months. I am currently using a pair of Exide ER650's, but I have only had 6 months on these - enough to say that they are much better than the banners, but that's about it. Note that the ER650's are '142AH', and get the additional capacity my being a good 2" taller than a 110AH battery would be. Check you have the space. If you are on the wild-camping forum, then Alpha will do you a deal on them - phone up and ask! http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/140-ah-exide-deep-cycle-leisure-battery/ Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimba Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 To start off I do not have space for any more solar panels, and I thought age and type would be an issue. A friend of mine has two 100 watt solar panels and he has a bank of 600Ah six batteries and he gets reading 14.5v with a PWM controller, I wonder if it is because I am using a MTTP controller because even if I don't go to the boat say for two weeks the 13.5 volt is always showing and the MTTP unit is just keeping them at that setting, as the active charge led does not flash constant as in it just flickers every now and then keeping the fully charged bank at max, the second I turn on something then it constantley starts to flicker. Ok so I should maybe consider just getting better batteries as 600ah is over kill for my needs? How about three of these and remove my Numax's? http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/boat-batteries/110-ah-xplorer-agm-leisure-battery/ or two of these? http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/140-ah-exide-deep-cycle-leisure-battery/ or two of these? https://www.tayna.co.uk/LFD180-Varta-Professional-DC-Leisure-Battery-180-930180100-P8723.html I have plenty of room for batteries so far what I am taking from this thread is replace the bank with better batteries keep it around 300Ah would be more efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I have recently replaced my (banner) leisure battery with two Varta LDF90 batteries after receiving excellent, up to date information and advice on this forum. They are technically much more advanced than conventional leisure batteries but if you would like to see some of that technical information have a look on aandncaravanservices.co.uk website. They have a section on battery technology and their advice is impartial as they do not sell batteries. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 kimba - 2016-07-01 5:34 PM To start off I do not have space for any more solar panels, and I thought age and type would be an issue. A friend of mine has two 100 watt solar panels and he has a bank of 600Ah six batteries and he gets reading 14.5v with a PWM controller, I wonder if it is because I am using a MTTP controller because even if I don't go to the boat say for two weeks the 13.5 volt is always showing and the MTTP unit is just keeping them at that setting, as the active charge led does not flash constant as in it just flickers every now and then keeping the fully charged bank at max, the second I turn on something then it constantley starts to flicker. Ok so I should maybe consider just getting better batteries as 600ah is over kill for my needs? How about three of these and remove my Numax's? http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/boat-batteries/110-ah-xplorer-agm-leisure-battery/ or two of these? http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/140-ah-exide-deep-cycle-leisure-battery/ or two of these? https://www.tayna.co.uk/LFD180-Varta-Professional-DC-Leisure-Battery-180-930180100-P8723.html I have plenty of room for batteries so far what I am taking from this thread is replace the bank with better batteries keep it around 300Ah would be more efficient. I have had good service from Numax batteries, I don't think that is your problem unless they are getting old. Get a suitably qualified Auto electrician to look at your system. If it stands for weeks, the solar should top your batteries right up. Something is not right I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veletron Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Your middle link is what I use. I got mine for £115 ea with the wildcamping.co.uk discount (I am a member bit they never checked). You need to phone for the discount. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimba Posted July 7, 2016 Author Share Posted July 7, 2016 I would like to thank all for the replys and right now I am/was considering these Varta but only because of this claim: A conventional battery starts to corrode from the moment it is made, as in the photo on the left above. The photo on the right shows how the Varta/Bosch with Powerframe doesn't corrode. This absence of corrosion on the special Silver Alloy grid endows performance like every other battery dreams of. Greater efficiency, up to 70% improved current flow, longer life, more power, faster charging, extreme temperature operation, etc. From this link: http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php Now that all sounds good but when I rang Tanya they were not aware of this Powerframe and said it's all just hype but Varta are a good battery, they also recommended Banner, This powerframe thing had made my mind up for me but now I am unsure again, I was going to get LFD140 Varta Professional DC x2, but with delivery it would cost £340 a sum I don't mind paying if they can live up to that claim Anyone here can confirm this powerframe is not just marketing hype? information in the link I posted incase you missed it. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 The problem with phoning a battery supplier is that the advice may not always be informed or impartial? You are often talking to a sales person, unless you specifically ask for a battery technician? The other potential issue might be one of pushing a particular battery, often the one with the highest profit margin. The Telephone sales team may have sales targets, just like any other sales team. When we were publicising the Varta S5 back in 2103, it created a lot of discussion across many forums. We were subsequently contacted by a big Battery manufacturer, their European Sales Manager no less, to promote their batteries. In return we were offered the best trade discount normally reserved for high volume distributors. A 95Ah battery back then being sold for over £130 was available to us to buy at £49 (I think, either £49 or £39 it was a long time ago). In our opinion it was a poor battery, but we pointed out we didn't, and still don't, sell batteries. The profit margins on some batteries can be significant, and a big incentive for a sales team to say some things which might not be quite true? They might also have some old stock that is deteriorating that they need to shift? We have cut open a lot of batteries during our evaluation/testing in 2012/13. Recently opened a Bosch S5 Powerframe installed about three years ago and the marketing, is not hype. The Grids were not like new, they had lost the shiny appearance but no crusty corrosion like you see on lesser batteries. Looked very good inside in every area. The battery itself had been well used yet still gave good performance, the customer just wanted the LFD version prior to a long tour. I would suggest your battery bank is already too big for the charging system, but that such a low voltage on an MPPT regulator suggests the load from the batteries is so high it is dragging down the voltage. I would guess they are probably past their best? Suggest you take them off charge, isolate them and leave them for 2 weeks to see what their resting voltage is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 kimba - 2016-07-01 11:46 AM I have a boat and right now I have Numax Sealed Leisure Battery 12V 75Ah four in total 300Ah. Each one has a battery status indicator on top each showing green as good. I have a 280 watt solar panel to keep everything topped up, and a mttp controller my bank does not go higher than 13.5v. It would only take one battery to be below par to drag the others, and maybe the charge rate, down and if they were mine I would be inclined get them all fully charged individually and let them stand for a few days before checking the voltage at rest on each as I have little faith in battery status lights. Some people have been very happy with the lifespan and durability of their Numx batteries over the years - I'm not one of them - I've had one twice and neither impressed or lasted and were replaced with another make under warranty by the supplying motorhome dealers - eventually! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Duplication - again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Tracker, we are not Numax fans either. Don't seem to match well with Solar, like the Banners discussed on other threads they seem prone to fluid loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 kimba - 2016-07-07 4:38 PM I would like to thank all for the replys and right now I am/was considering these Varta but only because of this claim: A conventional battery starts to corrode from the moment it is made, as in the photo on the left above. The photo on the right shows how the Varta/Bosch with Powerframe doesn't corrode. This absence of corrosion on the special Silver Alloy grid endows performance like every other battery dreams of. Greater efficiency, up to 70% improved current flow, longer life, more power, faster charging, extreme temperature operation, etc. From this link: http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php Now that all sounds good but when I rang Tanya they were not aware of this Powerframe and said it's all just hype but Varta are a good battery, they also recommended Banner, This powerframe thing had made my mind up for me but now I am unsure again, I was going to get LFD140 Varta Professional DC x2, but with delivery it would cost £340 a sum I don't mind paying if they can live up to that claim Anyone here can confirm this powerframe is not just marketing hype? information in the link I posted incase you missed it. Thanks Must say, Kimba, I didn't take any advice from Tayna just the advice I received on this forum when I bought my two Varta LFD90 batteries earlier this year. When looking for the best quote (Tayna) I did ask for 'Powerframe' and none recognised this name but all recognised the Varta Professional range and I obtained the product code from Alan at A and N Caravan Servuces to check I was getting the right battery. The price for mine was just under £80 each delivered, so very competitive with other batteries. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimba Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 Ok first of all thank you all for the advice given me in this thread, I am now going to follow this advice and remove my old bank from the boat, I have another solar array I can use them on that is not important. Now the powerframe thing has got me and I am going to order the LFD140 Varta Professional DC Leisure Battery 140Ah https://www.tayna.co.uk/LFD140-Varta-Professional-DC-Leisure-Battery-930140080-P8722.html Going to shop around to see if I can get them cheaper, then £277.97 delivered. I am not sure but did someone mention I can get a 10% discount with Tanya if I join a forum? Thanks all will keep you updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.