pegasus23 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I have a Swift Kontiki 669 2007 the breaks feel very spongy I can press the pedal all the way down even when the engine is running ??? is this normal. also the hand brake seems to struggle to hold it on a incline even pulled right up ??? advise any one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Both are defective and need investigation. They may, or may not, be linked as to cause. Garage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 You have not given us much to go on but I reckon that you should get it seen to right away by someone who understands braking systems as you may have any one (or more) of half a dozen faults ranging from vacuum servo or hydraulic master cylinder not working to air in the system or faulty or leaking slave cylinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 As stated, get them checked properly. I think you have the AlKo chassis (possibly a tag axle?) and if the handbrake is not set up right, you will struggle to hold the van on an incline. I have had 2 Tag axles vans and there is always a hint of sponginess in the brake pedal. A 2007 model has probably never had the Brake fluid drained and renewed, this could be a big factor as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Spongy brakes indicate air has got into the system. The excess travel on the hand brake indicates that the rear brake shoes are worn and need replacing. This can also allow excess travel in the rear brake cylinders resulting in air entering the system. Have you checked the brake fluid level at the master cylinder and if there are signs of brake fluid at the wheels? You should get a mechanic to examine your system and do not drive the MH if possible and if so, very carefully to a garage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I hope you realise you may be putting your family at risk if not corrected ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Sorry Will, I do have to disagree with you as I doubt the OP is putting anyone at risk as he tries to ascertain the problem with his van's brakes. Many of us have probably driven vehicles in a far worse mechanical state over the years - i know I have - without incident and as long as one has enough experience to allow common sense driving to prevail I don't see any need to get all pious and superior about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmacz Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Never said he was driving it or he had a family, how did you get to family in danger from the first post. Lots of reasons for this problem, only one way to find fault, get someone to check the brakes for you. Engine running would pull down pedal even more due to servo, so you have a big problem if it does it with no engine running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Tracker, this problem has not just happened overnight and I would be very concerned if this vehicle is used on the road. I am afraid common sense did not prevail otherwise it would have been attended to well before it reached this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Brake problems can very much just happen overnight, they can also happen suddenly whilst you are on holiday and a very long way from home, and that does make managing it more interesting, but not impossible as long as one has brakes with the second shove on the pedal. More likely is that it builds up over a period until one day you suddenly notice things are not quite as they were at which point you seek advice - which he has - so let's all try and keep it in perspective shall we? I agree that to drive with no brakes at all on a 3.5 tonne van would be very dangerous and foolish but I don't think that is what the OP is describing here? Perhaps he will return and illuminate us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I agree with some of what you say but a handbrake not holding a vehicle definitely does not happen overnight unless a cable breaks which does not appear to be the case. Hopefully he will feedback, but I will not hold my breath waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Fair comment. However its often what is omitted that is the more important. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmacz Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Not sure if vehicle has drums on rear. Handbrake and brake pedal problems could easily be a rear seal letting go. Shoe gets coated in fluid and will not hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I have a 2005 Kontiki 660, which is much about the same and it has discs on the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I think that I would be with those saying that you should get this van to a competent mechanic as soon as possible, and don't use it beforehand. I personally would be calling my breakdown service to avoid driving it. There will always be the heros who would advocate that you can fix it yourself, or learn to pump the pedal and it will be OK, but it seems to me that the mere fact that you have contacted this forum for help, and phrased you enquiry in fairly simple terms leads me to think that this time you need professional help. I'm not knocking the forum, these guys are fantastic, but I don't think that this is a good time to try to find out how the brakes work by remote intervention. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 sshortcircuit - 2016-07-01 9:09 PM I have a 2005 Kontiki 660, which is much about the same and it has discs on the rear. You told him that his brake shoes need adjusting in your first post when it will have discs and pads, with a 'top hat' style handbrake. I just let your comment go as I expect he will get his brakes checked by a proper mechanic. The AlKo handbrake needs to be set up carefully (especially so on Tag axle vans)as it is not the best system in the world. When tested by an MOT Tester, they often just scrape through or the wheel locks up (which is a pass). That is why I totally empty my Garage, to make the back end of the van as light as possible (the wheels lock earlier). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Shoes or discs, if there is excessive wear then fluid can leak past the seals due to excessive travel'. I said they needed "replacement" and not just adjustment which needs to be done by somebody who has the skills. To be asking the question suggests the OP does not have the knowledge and does need to get it the brakes attended to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 The service( foot) brakes on a Ducato are disc with the parking brake on the rear wheels only is by mechanically operated drums. The Al-Ko tag axle uses the standard Ducato rear set up X2 . In the unlikely event of a brake fluid leak the drums are well shielded and unlikely to get contaminated with fluid. Disc brakes a re self adjusting but the automatic system from the parking brake can play up leading to excess hand lever travel. The brakes need checking out urgently but as the service brake is a split system the chances of a total loss of braking low although if half the system fails it may feel much worse in an emergency. If a check on the brake fluid shows the level is above the marked low level a cautious drive to a garage would not be out of order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 I can assure you George that my Kontiki , of the same era, with the Al-Ko chassis extension, has discs all round. The rear discs are activated by a wire cable system for the hand brake and hydraulically for the foot brake. Have just recently carried out my annual grease to the rear axle and post this as a reminder to others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Will86 - 2016-07-01 6:05 PMI hope you realise you may be putting your family at risk if not corrected ASAP. I see that the OP has not posted again, what a pity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 StuartO - 2016-07-02 9:56 AMWill86 - 2016-07-01 6:05 PMI hope you realise you may be putting your family at risk if not corrected ASAP. I see that the OP has not posted again, what a pity.I totally agree with you Stuart, as we can all learn from feedback. I occasionally ask for feedback, but with very little response, so tend not to bother any more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 sshortcircuit - 2016-07-02 9:22 AM I can assure you George that my Kontiki , of the same era, with the Al-Ko chassis extension, has discs all round. The rear discs are activated by a wire cable system for the hand brake and hydraulically for the foot brake. Have just recently carried out my annual grease to the rear axle and post this as a reminder to others The parking brake is not operated by the brake pads. It is a 'top hat' arrangement. I used to have the exploded diagram which showed it clearly but it has gone walkabout. The system remained the same for X2/50 as it was for X2/44 ...... but you will just have to take my word for it now. I may have a look on the Fiatforum later, a member named RayC put it on there I seem to remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 747 - 2016-07-02 12:43 PM sshortcircuit - 2016-07-02 9:22 AM I can assure you George that my Kontiki , of the same era, with the Al-Ko chassis extension, has discs all round. The rear discs are activated by a wire cable system for the hand brake and hydraulically for the foot brake. Have just recently carried out my annual grease to the rear axle and post this as a reminder to others The parking brake is not operated by the brake pads. It is a 'top hat' arrangement. I used to have the exploded diagram which showed it clearly but it has gone walkabout. The system remained the same for X2/50 as it was for X2/44 ...... but you will just have to take my word for it now. I may have a look on the Fiatforum later, a member named RayC put it on there I seem to remember. Interesting. So the rear brake disc is also a brake drum which would have no influence on loss of brake fluid. Extremely worn pads and discs could result in excessive piston movement resulting in air entering system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 sshortcircuit - 2016-07-02 12:57 PM.......................Interesting. So the rear brake disc is also a brake drum which would have no influence on loss of brake fluid. ................ From memory, yes Dave. The parking brake is a small (cable operated) drum brake, with an outer, radially extended, flange that forms the disc for the (hydraulically operated) foot brake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 One combined disc and drum for a Ducato. See: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121950229269?clk_rvr_id=1057196343895&rmvSB=true Cant say I have come across pads so badly worn the plungers seals let air in. I would expect that before then the brake pedal would be on the floor with little or no effective braking. With a tag axle set up that retains the original master cylinder the cylinder has to serve six instead of four wheels and pedal travel increases in proportion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.