baden87 Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 I'm not sure if I should name the dealer who refunded me for a damp motorhome I bought and a thump on start up and reverse judder and clonking when moving in the motorhome I took it back on a Friday and it was back on sale on the Monday ,it has just been resold to some unsuspecting punter , l feel like I want to warn the buyer before it's too late What should I do ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Presumably you don’t know whether the dealer was able to satisfactorily address the dampness, reversing thump and clonking, nor whether the “unsuspecting punter” is aware of the problems and the price paid reflected the faults? If you are able to contact the buyer I can’t see why you should not tell them that you were the motorhome’s previous owner, experienced the problems you’ve highlighted and that the dealer consequently refunded the cost of the vehicle. If you just give the buyer a simple factual statement relating to your experience, they can then please themselves what they do next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Short of parking yourself next to the MH all day every day and warning viewers to beware, there probably isn't much you can do and the dealer might throw you off his premises anyway. Maybe the dealer will try to sell without repairing the MH but maybe he will get it fixed, you cannot know. And he did refund your money, so presumably he would do the same again of necessary. What is there to name and shame about this dealer? Did he deliberately mislead you when you bought this MH or did you fail to examine it properly or have second thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baden87 Posted July 7, 2016 Author Share Posted July 7, 2016 He gave it a full damp check and certificate to say it was damp free , the other things are a "characteristic" Of fiat ducato's , (the one I have now bought does not show the same charecteristics) I grisly believe someone is going to get bitten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Then tell the unfortunate soul who has bought the motorhome you used to own why you no longer own it. Either you tell the buyer or you don’t. I don’t think any forum member will tell you not to, so (as was always the case really) you’ll have to decide for yourself whether or not to contact the current owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesleykaren Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 its a great question and I was looking to post something about this so here goes ..... for us noobs who are looking for that special first MH and know nothing about the technicalities is it ok to "accept" what a dealer is saying - ie 3 year warranty, habitation check, full MOT etc??? and if you are buying from what is perceived to be a reputable dealer, should you take someone who knows their way around a MH or two? or rely on what they say???? (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 lesleykaren, there are many reputable dealers who play straight with potential buyers. However, never take what they say at face value without checking the information. The more you can confirm what they say, the more you can trust what they say. If you spot a potential van, do your research on the make/model and then ask the dealer questions, listening for dealer responses that agree with your search. If you don't get the expected answers, and your research is accurate, walk away. The dealer may be honest and the sales person may just lack the product knowledge or motorhome experience. Get as much as you can in writing. Use the motto, "If it isn't written down, it wasn't said." Make notes when you talk to sales person and let them see you writing down the points they make. There is an art in gathering information you might want to research. All that said, some buyers just wing it and hope for the best! You can get vehicles checked out independently. I suggest you start a new thread to ask your questions. It will make it easier to follow the responses. Also, if you have not done so, have a rummage through Motorhome Advice on OAL website. You'll need to scroll down to find the advice. https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/buyers-guide/motorhomes/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 In addition to the excellent advice above I would add that the more you know what it is you want before you buy the more likely you are to finally get what you want. Sounds easy but, believe me, I can still make mistakes after twenty odd years and several Motorhomes. Whilst doing your research and particularly whilst looking round try to draw up a list of what you are looking for and like in a Motorhome. The list should have three parts: must haves (e.g. Automatic transmission, particular make/model of chassis, full fridge freezer etc - these are usually things that cannot be added later) - should haves (perhaps a roll out awning or towbar - things it should have for your type of camping but, if necessary, could be added later - and could haves - a DAB radio or satnav maybe but something that you are not fussed about having straight away. Tick these off your list as you check out each van but, above all, try everything - I mean everything. Lie on the beds (if they are fixed beds - if not, get the salesman to demonstrate to your satisfaction how they make up), stand in the shower or try the bathroom sink and go through the motions to see where you bang your head or elbows, try the kitchen and dining areas. Just try to imagine how you would do the things you would do and you will soon see if the really nice looking decor is let down badly by you not being able to touch the floor with your feet when on the loo! Make sure the storage spaces are sufficient for your needs and pay particular attention to the amount of payload available - especially if you choose a rear garage model. These things can be costly to rectify afterwards. Sounds tiresome but it can be fun and it will pay off in the long run. Have fun, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 I once PX'd a very high mileage car with almost 200K on the clock, it was not that old, about 5 years as I recall. Anyway, I had such a good PX offer from one dealer I did the deal. I had a sneaking feeling that the mileage would be clocked and sold on. So I wrote little notes and put them in places only a new owner would look. Sure enough I got a phone call about a month later, the new owner had been duped. I offered to act as witness etc., but it "got resolved" and the new owner was happy. This was before the mileage was recorded on the MOT, but I believe it still goes on. To late now but a few notes placed in suitable places for the new owner to find might have worked. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baden87 Posted July 7, 2016 Author Share Posted July 7, 2016 I agree with leaving notes hindsight is a wonderful thing As I owned the van in question for less than 30 days I would be interested what he told the new buyer about that, I let my guard down I think because the dealer has a good reputation and all the paperwork (damp report / mechanical service ) was in order I am a veteran of 25 years buying caravans and motor homes just shows you how you can become complacent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Sadly we get contacted by a new purchaser too often with a tale of woe on the electrics after purchases from both Trade and Private sales. Typical was the phone call on Monday that went something like, "Just bought a 2007 Motorhome from a Dealer and we have problems with the electrics. The Dealer is saying the issue is normal, Burstner are quoting £880 to rectify it. Can you help?" It turns out the Dealer knew of an issue and their 'technician' bypassed the main power controller to sell it, but the bodge had now also failed. However, to counter that we also get calls from the trade, asking us to fix an issue on a part exchange they have taken in where the seller had put in a sneaky bodge in exactly the same way to cover up an expensive problem. So it isn't always one sided. Lesleykaren, we would suggest that the potential bills are so high if things go wrong that taking an expert with you is not a bad idea. I know the Warranties can be expensive, but we think good insurance. We do work for Customers under warranty and most of the time the work is covered without issue by the warranty company, provided clearance is obtained first. It sometimes becomes an issue when we are instructed to do a repair and only when it's complete are we told by the customer 'it's going to be a Warranty claim'. The Warranty companies don't seem to like retrospective claims, even valid ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Have to say my experience with insurance 'Warranties' are that they are not worth the paper they are written on, even if you ask before having work done. They find all the excuses under the sun to find a way to exclude the repairs from the warranty, that is even if it is their 'Gold' covers everything policy. Personally I wouldn't take having a 'Warranty' via an insurance company as anything other than a gimmick to try to convince you to buy, use someone who is professional and detached if you don't know what you are looking at first hand would be my advice. Basil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baden87 Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 Hi Luckily the warranty was in house which is one of the reasons I chose to buy from him " comprehensive no quibble " warranty and luckily the dealer was true to his word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Not clear to me yet what sort of dampness you discovered after you bought this motorhome, perhaps you could explain? Juddering when reversing is not uncommon with Ducatos and my MH does it, especially if reversing up an incline or pushing a trailer and I regard that as a characteristic rather than a fault which can be remedied. What sort of thump and where on start up? What sort of clonking, when and where? Did you get it looked at by anyone and did they think these were faults needing repair? It might also be useful if you explain what your expectations are. Is it a matter of repairing the dampness etc before selling to anyone else or do you expect more? Do you feel the dealer should scrap this MH because of the faults you feel where present? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 david lloyd - 2016-07-07 4:18 PM In addition to the excellent advice above I would add that the more you know what it is you want before you buy the more likely you are to finally get what you want. Sounds easy but, believe me, I can still make mistakes after twenty odd years and several Motorhomes..........................Have fun, David In addition to David's advice above, I would also suggest you try hiring a van for about a week, and driving it as much as you can during that week. The immediate comfort and appeal of a van is quite obvious once you step inside, but the flaws only become apparent once you use it, and that should involve driving and making short term stopovers which, IMO, brings them to the surface more quickly than longer stays. Second, I'd suggest buying this book: http://tinyurl.com/pvxmruf Written by motorhomers for motorhomers it contains a wealth of information and could easily save you making expensive mistakes as well as answering most of your questions (and a few you haven't yet thought of!). Third, re insurance backed warranties, do make sure you read the conditions in detail before agreeing to buy. They all contain exclusions, and it is essential to understand the limitations of the policy to avoid disappointments. The same applies to warranties on new vans, and those that may transfer to the new owner of a used van. Especially important are conditions surrounding any extended water ingress warranty, most particularly who is authorised to carry out the (usually annual) checks, when they are to be carried out, and whether the maintenance log records that they were carried out in accordance with those conditions. Remember that a manufacturer's warranty is not usually contractual, it is a "promise" by the manufacturer to carry out various remedial works under certain conditions, and the manufacturer reserves the right to interpret the conditions as he sees fit. Because they are non-contractual, they are almost impossible for any mere mortal to challenge legally. If a warranty has been voided by a previous owner not complying with its terms, your only legal recourse will be against the dealer who sells you the van. Difficult if the dealer doesn't play ball but, unlike the warranty, at least you can use your Consumer Protection rights against him. Remember also that this legislation is not limited in any way by the warranty. Some dealers may try to argue that they can't help you if the manufacturer rejects a claim under warranty. T'ain't so! If your claim is legally valid and reasonable, the dealer is legally obliged to compensate, repair, or replace. However, you have little to no recourse against a private seller. Check whether your home, contents, car, or motorhome insurances include a legal advisory service. Many do and, if you're a little unsure about such a major purchase, it may be worth making sure at least one contains this provision for the first year or so of ownership - even if the premium is a little higher. Good luck, and enjoy the ride! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 StuartO - 2016-07-08 5:50 PMNot clear to me yet what sort of dampness you discovered after you bought this motorhome, perhaps you could explain? Juddering when reversing is not uncommon with Ducatos and my MH does it, especially if reversing up an incline or pushing a trailer and I regard that as a characteristic rather than a fault which can be remedied. What sort of thump and where on start up? What sort of clonking, when and where? Did you get it looked at by anyone and did they think these were faults needing repair? It might also be useful if you explain what your expectations are. Is it a matter of repairing the dampness etc before selling to anyone else or do you expect more? Do you feel the dealer should scrap this MH because of the faults you feel where present?The damp/knocking/thumping issues were mentioned in these earlier forum threads.http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Damp/41790/http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Knock-knock/41775/http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Thump/41487/Baden87 no longer owns the motorhome (a 2007 Auto-Trail) and the dealer from whom he bought the vehicle refunded the purchase price. Apparently the motorhome has now been resold, but there is no legal imperative compelling Baden87 to inform the new owner of the damp/knocking/thumping that caused him to reject the motorhome and demand a refund.It’s evident that Baden87 feels he has a moral responsibility to warn the motorhome’s new owner about the damp/knocking/thumping and I would certainly not dissuade him from doing this. In my posting of 7 July 2016 7:55 AM I assumed that Baden87 did not know what the dealer told the new owner regarding the motorhome’s condition and this appears to be the case (“...I would be interested what he told the new buyer...”)It is often said that no good deed goes unpunished. If Baden87 proactively contacts the new owner and recounts his (Baden87’s) experience when he briefly owned the motorhome, it’s near certain that the new owner will get in touch with the dealer about this. The dealer’s reaction is unpredictable, but undoubtedly the dealer will know who ‘informed’ and probably won’t be too pleased! (Baden87 now has another motorhome and I assume this was not purchased from the same dealership - otherwise he’d need to think very carefully about what he’s considering doing.)This is a moral dilemma, not a legal one. If Baden87 decides not to tell the motorhome’s new owner about the damp/knocking/thumping, he’ll need to live with that decision. If he does decide to tell the motorhome’s new owner about the damp/knocking/thumping (which, if it is to be done, should be done without delay) he’ll need to accept any consequences. As you rightly ask, what are Baden87’s objectives regarding what he believes the dealer should do and can those objectives be realistically achieved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baden87 Posted July 9, 2016 Author Share Posted July 9, 2016 I really genuinely feel for the poor bugger and just hope he is as diligent when he gets the motorhome to find the faults I mentioned which I doubt the dealer could possibly have rectified I didn't buy another one from him I realise there's not much I can do now ,but that motorhome was a pup with a capital P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesleykaren Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 thanks muchly all for the great advice and so much of it :) it has given me lots of other things to think about - certainly hadnt thought of the toilet height, so thanks for that David Lloyd - I should have been alert to that as i cant even do that on my couch!!! I have list of must haves - garage for bike being one, so i am getting out and about to look at as many as i can - i have banged my head checking things out more than once! i have done a fair few miles to dealers too as there are none near me, so really getting out and about!!! Yesterday i went to a dealer in the midlands and as well as looking at some nice new Chausson and Pilote MH's I looked over a number of 2nd hand ones. I have also lived in a MH before, so understand a littel of the space restraints, so am standing in the showers and kitchen areas etc :) thanks again for all the great advice, we noobs appreciate it immensely :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazdog6007 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 i assume that the dealer you saw the pilots and chausson m/hs name is lowdhams.i have a chausson flash from them,new six weeks ago.after three weeks continual use the key in the electric bed broke off in the lock. three phone calls on the problem in three weeks,all going to look into it ,but no return calls.BUYER BEWARE INDEED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesleykaren Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 ive decided that when i find my perfect match (MH of course) i am going to employ an engineer to do an inspection. expensive i know, but maybe a bit of peace of mind. especially after visiting a rather seedy mh dealer in the north west .... dont think i will be going back there .. scary!!! aandncaravans ....given your expertise .... might be your next vocation :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 And what advantage is an engineer? By far the better way is to find a couple of well seasoned M/H users, the problem can then be that you'll never buy one due to all the quirks they will find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Will86 - 2016-08-04 6:56 PM And what advantage is an engineer? By far the better way is to find a couple of well seasoned M/H users, the problem can then be that you'll never buy one due to all the quirks they will find. Tend to agree with Will, although an engineer would be useful to check out the mechanical aspects of the base vehicle. There are of course mobile technicians who would be able to check the functioning of the habitation aspects and carry out a damp test. If you divulged your approximate location, there may be forum members who would be willing to assist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 lesleykaren - 2016-08-04 6:40 PMive decided that when i find my perfect match (MH of course) i am going to employ an engineer to do an inspection. expensive i know, but maybe a bit of peace of mind. especially after visiting a rather seedy mh dealer in the north west .... dont think i will be going back there .. scary!!!aandncaravans ....given your expertise .... might be your next vocation :-D I don't think it's realistic to aim to buy a used MH which will be (and remain) perfectly serviceable and (especially a British built one) free from dampness. MHs are decaying as well as depreciating assets and you need to understand that and look after them accordingly. There is a dealership in Warton, Lancashire which specialises in low price MHs which are well worn or even a bit abused, maybe cast0offs from other dealers, repossessions, bought at auction and ex-hire vehicles and some will show evidence of wear and damage - but they are cheap for what you get and for a buyer on a budget who has some DIY skills I think they provide good value. Their business has expanded considerable over the years so they clearly serve an active market. A few miles away at Lostock Hall is Todds, a family firm which offers new and used MHs in good condition and will doubtless fix any snags before delivery and everything will be spot on - but their prices are higher. If you want to get as close as possible to a perfect MH buy a new one, preferably of German build, by all means get it expertly inspected at deliver time - then use it regularly and get it properly maintained. Even then you will probably encounter some problems sooner or later. Even with a new, top quality MH a skilled inspector would perhaps find some snags; it's a never ending challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesleykaren Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 tazdog6007 - 2016-07-11 2:52 PM i assume that the dealer you saw the pilots and chausson m/hs name is lowdhams.i have a chausson flash from them,new six weeks ago.after three weeks continual use the key in the electric bed broke off in the lock. three phone calls on the problem in three weeks,all going to look into it ,but no return calls.BUYER BEWARE INDEED! hey taz, not lowdhams, hayes - they seem to have a better rep :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesleykaren Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 Robbo - 2016-08-04 9:19 PM Will86 - 2016-08-04 6:56 PM And what advantage is an engineer? By far the better way is to find a couple of well seasoned M/H users, the problem can then be that you'll never buy one due to all the quirks they will find. Tend to agree with Will, although an engineer would be useful to check out the mechanical aspects of the base vehicle. There are of course mobile technicians who would be able to check the functioning of the habitation aspects and carry out a damp test. If you divulged your approximate location, there may be forum members who would be willing to assist. hey both, dont mean "engineer" in the true sense - i meant some who can do checks - its been suggested that there are firms who can do this - a bit like aa inspection on car :) after visiting the "dodgy dealer" it scared me a little - lovely web prescence etc, so travelled some distance to visit, but back end of nowhere down the side of a canal!!! i did wonder whether i should even get out of the car!!! i am in north wales xx thanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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