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An undeclared political "war" with France?


StuartO

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The politicians are making friendly noises and promising cooperation after Brexit but we've had Hollande making hard nosed noises after our new PM went to Germany and got on well with Merkel.  Then we had the episode at Dover because of undermanning by French Police at Dover (which looked contrived by the French to me) followed by our Government stalling its approval for the new EDF Nuclear Power Station.  Is this the start of a pissing contest brewing between UK and France?

 

Or am I reading too much into these happenings?

 

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Guest pelmetman
StuartO - 2016-07-29 6:15 PM

 

Is this the start of a pissing contest brewing between UK and France?

 

 

Yes it is 8-) .....

 

But never fear..... the UK is taking steps by sending in undercover urine extractors, to encourage Frexitlution among our Froggy neighbours :D .......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Stuart

History shows , we have always been at loggerheads with France, even though their General De Gaulle , chose to spend his exile in WW2 in this country!! We where safe, before the tunnel!!

 

 

They are still using us, as a convenience, when there is trouble, or they want to cause it !!

 

PJay

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I was discussing this with my daughter last evening; she's a lawyer working in international trade finance for a big bank in London so she has a more informed global perspective. 

 

The French bear grudges and they (and to a lesser extent the Germans) are really hacked off that we are spoiling their great vision by walking away from the EU. While the Germans will ultimately respond pragmatically because they still need to trade with us the French might well be more resentful and vengeful.

 

When the EU was originally set up the "four freedoms" were all supposed to help to prevent European countries ever going to war with each other again, rather than an attempt to engage in social engineering for its own sake - but of course the effect is also to move towards a socialist federation which is a separate aim, which suits some.  Maybe the tail of socialist development has started to wag the dog of war prevention.  The danger for Germany and France of Brexit is that it could rock the EU boat so hard that the whole thing falls apart and of course that would compromise the no-war benefits.

 

And maybe trading economic interdependence is enough to prevent war-making anyway, regardless of whether countries want to pursue different social or socio-economic policies.  Or whether some countries want the death penalty and others don't?  Why should Turkey's move back towards capital punishment preclude entry into the EU for them, if that's what they want to do in their Country?

 

But the French see themselves as big players in the EU dream and they will want to preserve both the four freedoms aim and their place in the EU hierarchy.  Maybe that's why they are lining up all these French federalist hard liners into the key positions, to ensure that UK pays a price for Brexit.  Maybe the border control problems at Dover recently was due to flexing of French muscles. 

 

I think we need to be prepared to do without using France as our land bridge to Europe and ensure that ferry links with other countries can handle the traffic.  Ostende and Zeebrugge instead of Calais and Dunkirk?

 

 

 

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StuartO - 2016-07-30 9:14 AMI was discussing this with my daughter last evening; she's a lawyer working in international trade finance for a big bank in London so she has a more informed global perspective. 

 

The French bear grudges and they (and to a lesser extent the Germans) are really hacked off that we are spoiling their great vision by walking away from the EU. While the Germans will ultimately respond pragmatically because they still need to trade with us the French might well be more resentful and vengeful.

 

When the EU was originally set up the "four freedoms" were all supposed to help to prevent European countries ever going to war with each other again, rather than an attempt to engage in social engineering for its own sake - but of course the effect is also to move towards a socialist federation which is a separate aim, which suits some.  Maybe the tail of socialist development has started to wag the dog of war prevention.  The danger for Germany and France of Brexit is that it could rock the EU boat so hard that the whole thing falls apart and of course that would compromise the no-war benefits.

 

And maybe trading economic interdependence is enough to prevent war-making anyway, regardless of whether countries want to pursue different social or socio-economic policies.  Or whether some countries want the death penalty and others don't?  Why should Turkey's move back towards capital punishment preclude entry into the EU for them, if that's what they want to do in their Country?

 

But the French see themselves as big players in the EU dream and they will want to preserve both the four freedoms aim and their place in the EU hierarchy.  Maybe that's why they are lining up all these French federalist hard liners into the key positions, to ensure that UK pays a price for Brexit.  Maybe the border control problems at Dover recently was due to flexing of French muscles. 

 

I think we need to be prepared to do without using France as our land bridge to Europe and ensure that ferry links with other countries can handle the traffic.  Ostende and Zeebrugge instead of Calais and Dunkirk?

 

 

Wont a lot depend on next years elections ... A centre right government much better to deal with than the socialists , thats the way it looks like its going to go ... Not ignoring Le Pen either , a good showing from them would be foolish for those in power to ignore ... Some ignored UKIP here and look what happened
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antony1969 - 2016-07-30 12:13 PM Won't a lot depend on next years elections? ..... 

Indeed, the French elections are certainly potentially usefully timed.  Maybe our PM will hold back on the Article 50 declaration until Hollande has departed, which is said to be likely.  And who knows what else might have happened by then?  It will be in our interests to quietly pre-negotiate as much as possible and if the French persist in refusing any pre-negotiation, we just wait a while until they change their mind?

 

Apparently the EU guy who will be in charge of negotiating the UK's future trading arrangements (another French federalist) has already said that he will not start any discussions until after the negotiations about exit (also in the hands of a French federalist) have been completed.  Clearly there is the risk we will face a concerted French effort to disadvantage the UK in ts future dealings with the EU and at the same time boost Paris's prospects of displacing London as the major European financial city.  One of the cards we can play is to hold back on Article 50 until we get what we want because doing so will destabilise the EU.

 

I wish I really knew what I was talking about on this topic!

 

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Guest pelmetman
malc d - 2016-07-30 1:31 PM
StuartO - 2016-07-30 12:42 PM I wish I really knew what I was talking about on this topic!

Why ?No -one else knows what they are talking about on this subject - so why should you ?. ;-)
BUT .....our guesses are just as good as those edjeremercated types......if the out come of the recent referendum was anything to go by ;-) .........Frankly I think our political elite along with the EU's & USA have become so far removed from us oikes, that they really haven't got a clue what will happen 8-) .........I'm just planning on enjoying the ride :D .....
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Mrs May is some tough cookie as the Americans would say. Anybody who can take on and to a fair degree tame ACPO and the Police Federation then play a low key on staying up to the final and as far as I could see not totally unexpected result of the referendum is just what is needed in a PM.

 

The out vote is really only a fresh negotiating position and guess who my money is on to blink first over talks before the start gun is fired. Its TMs cool hand on the trigger and she has four years to make her mind up.

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George Collings - 2016-07-30 11:47 PM

 

 

The out vote is really only a fresh negotiating position and guess who my money is on to blink first over talks before the start gun is fired. Its TMs cool hand on the trigger and she has four years to make her mind up.

 

 

Agreed.

 

One of the best results of the referendum is that David Cameron has gone and has been replaced by a more " statesman - like " politician.

 

All the EU parties involved will be taking up negotiating positions ( and keeping their own populations happy with a bit of aggressive rhetoric now and again ) whilst underneath serious negotiations will go on ( to ensure that no-one ' loses' )

 

Trouble is of course that our media, with it's lazy journalistic habits, will spend all it's time dissecting every utterance ! ( So much easier than finding/ investigating news stories )

 

;-)

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malc d - 2016-07-31 9:10 AM

 

George Collings - 2016-07-30 11:47 PM

 

 

The out vote is really only a fresh negotiating position and guess who my money is on to blink first over talks before the start gun is fired. Its TMs cool hand on the trigger and she has four years to make her mind up.

 

 

Agreed.

 

One of the best results of the referendum is that David Cameron has gone and has been replaced by a more " statesman - like " politician.

 

All the EU parties involved will be taking up negotiating positions ( and keeping their own populations happy with a bit of aggressive rhetoric now and again ) whilst underneath serious negotiations will go on ( to ensure that no-one ' loses' )

 

Trouble is of course that our media, with it's lazy journalistic habits, will spend all it's time dissecting every utterance ! ( So much easier than finding/ investigating news stories )

 

;-)

 

Would not say "Statesman" like .

How about just saying replaced by a WOMAN!!

Guess Mrs may, and Mrs Merkel will have lots more to talk about. Perhaps the French will elect a woman!!

Should be interesting.

 

Sorry Guys, but now we have the vote, woman are taking over!!

 

PJay

 

PS how many of you guys , do what SHE wants?? Come on be honest.

 

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PJay - 2016-07-31 9:03 PM

 

malc d - 2016-07-31 9:10 AM

 

George Collings - 2016-07-30 11:47 PM

 

 

The out vote is really only a fresh negotiating position and guess who my money is on to blink first over talks before the start gun is fired. Its TMs cool hand on the trigger and she has four years to make her mind up.

 

 

Agreed.

 

One of the best results of the referendum is that David Cameron has gone and has been replaced by a more " statesman - like " politician.

 

All the EU parties involved will be taking up negotiating positions ( and keeping their own populations happy with a bit of aggressive rhetoric now and again ) whilst underneath serious negotiations will go on ( to ensure that no-one ' loses' )

 

Trouble is of course that our media, with it's lazy journalistic habits, will spend all it's time dissecting every utterance ! ( So much easier than finding/ investigating news stories )

 

;-)

 

Would not say "Statesman" like .

How about just saying replaced by a WOMAN!!

Guess Mrs may, and Mrs Merkel will have lots more to talk about. Perhaps the French will elect a woman!!

Should be interesting.

 

Sorry Guys, but now we have the vote, woman are taking over!!

 

PJay

 

PS how many of you guys , do what SHE wants?? Come on be honest.

 

 

If she does the job well who cares wether male or female and as long as she doesn't do a Merkel and invite the worlds dregs then she'll do OK ... As for the the French with a woman , wow Le Pen would be brilliant would she not ?? ... Happy days

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Guest pelmetman
StuartO - 2016-08-01 9:19 AMIt would certainly rock the EU's boat if Le Pen was elected President to replace Hollande but somehow I doubt the French male ego is ready for a woman being openly in charge!

I'd love to be a fly on a EU wall if they do >:-) ...........
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if you really want to understand our relationship with France may I recommend a book which may help,

 

"1000 YEARS OF ANNOYING THE FRENCH", written by Stephen Clarke, and published by Black Swann.

 

It is my constant reference, and a source of inspiration to those of us who are trying to regain Aquitane for the Queen by buying up all the houses, starting with the Dordogne.

 

AGD

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Archiesgrandad - 2016-08-01 5:34 PM

 

if you really want to understand our relationship with France may I recommend a book which may help,

 

"1000 YEARS OF ANNOYING THE FRENCH", written by Stephen Clarke, and published by Black Swann.

 

It is my constant reference, and a source of inspiration to those of us who are trying to regain Aquitane for the Queen by buying up all the houses, starting with the Dordogne.

 

AGD

 

AGD

You had better not let your French neighbours see the book. You may be first on their list for extradition, when we leave EU!! Better make good friends with the MARIE

PJay

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During are usual couple of months wander around mainly France( well its in the way to anywhere else) from time to time I strike up a conversation with a Frenchman breaking the ice with my early stage Frangalai. Often they capitulate and speak fluent English. Our shared history sometimes crops up when for long periods large chunks of France were ruled by the King of England but eventually the home team won and we were chucked out but my parting shot is that we should really check the deeds.

 

If Le Pen gets the big swing right they might even feel happier as a monarchy and who knows what might happen if Prince Harry finds a French wife.

 

In its present state they can keep Calais.

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Every time those murdering , deluded Islamic terrorists slaughter innocent folk in France it plays into the hands of Le Pen , with no sign of the attacks slowing down anytime ever then the more the French look for answers from those who actually dare to speak the truth ... I don't think Le Pen will win unfortunately but I hope the gains they make will not be ignored by those who end up in power ... We have the re-run of the Hungarian election soon which looks like a win for the right wing candidate and the same day they vote on EU immigration when hopefully they will tell the EU to stick its migrant quota ... Up the Right
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Guest pelmetman
antony1969 - 2016-08-02 6:45 AM

I don't think Le Pen will win unfortunately but I hope the gains they make will not be ignored by those who end up in power ... We have the re-run of the Hungarian election soon which looks like a win for the right wing candidate and the same day they vote on EU immigration when hopefully they will tell the EU to stick its migrant quota ... Up the Right

 

I dunno ;-).........Even the Germans are starting to turn against Mrs Merkel B-) ..........

 

I'm even beginning to think BREXIT was unnecessary 8-) .........

 

Coz there wont be a EU for us to leave in two years time :D ..........

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Very clever of Isil don’t you think. Punish those who have fled their control by making sure they are unwelcome in Europe, set European States against each other and foment violence and hatred on European soil. They know how extremists’ minds work and are masters at manipulation. :'(
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pelmetman - 2016-08-02 8:56 AM

 

antony1969 - 2016-08-02 6:45 AM

I don't think Le Pen will win unfortunately but I hope the gains they make will not be ignored by those who end up in power ... We have the re-run of the Hungarian election soon which looks like a win for the right wing candidate and the same day they vote on EU immigration when hopefully they will tell the EU to stick its migrant quota ... Up the Right

 

I dunno ;-).........Even the Germans are starting to turn against Mrs Merkel B-) ..........

 

I'm even beginning to think BREXIT was unnecessary 8-) .........

 

Coz there wont be a EU for us to leave in two years time :D ..........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know Dave on second thoughts you may be correct ... I didn't think Leave would win the referendum but look what happened ... Bit more PMA from me I think

Who can blame the Germans for turning on Merkel , her disastrous welcome to the world policy has come at a cost to countless innocent victims in Germany wether it be terrorism , everyday violence , sexual assaults and the rest ... I believe in ten years time she'll be looked on by the Germans in the same way we look at Tony Bliar ... Up the Right

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