Replacing Hymer AGM Battery

[emjaiuk]

Hi All

 

I realize that this subject has been covered in some depth, but I would like to clarify a couple of points before I go ahead.

 

Having recently purchased a 2012 Ford based Hymer exsis-i 562, I've discovered the Banner battery is kaput. The van is fitted with a solar panel (and LR1218) and we didn't realize the battery was so bad until we tried to use the TV after dark! I need to do something before Malvern.

 

I've almost decided to replace the Banner with one or two Vara LFD90 batteries fitted in parallel.

 

Am I right in thinking the Varta doesn't require venting to outside air? I'd like to fit one in the original location under the passenger seat (LHD), and the other in an adjacent seat locker.

 

To balance the batteries I intend to run the negative lead from the EBL99 to battery No 2 and keep the positive in it's original position. Is it relatively easy to replace the existing negative lead from the EBL with a longer one?

 

The EBL99 instruction book advises not to change from GEL(AGM) to lead acid, why? I've emailed Udo Lang but he is on holiday.

 

I believe the sequence I need to follow to change a battery is , disconnect solar, switch off battery, remove fuse, disconnect +ve, disconnect -ve. Is this right?

 

Is there anything else I need to know.

 

 

Thanks in advance

 

Malcolm

[Derek Uzzell]

Malcolm

 

Expert advice is that IN NORMAL USE batteries in the Varta LFD range can be considered to lose no electrolyte and not ‘gas’.

 

I’m a pessimist, so if I were fitting Varta LFD batteries where you plan to I’d fit vent-tubes. An LFD battery is designed to accept a vent-tube and, if a vent-tube is fitted and a situation occurs when the battery does start to gas, the vent-tube should reduce potential damage to the motorhome’s interior. In your case, if you choose not to fit vant-tubes and serious gassing happens, you’ll need to accept that acidic gas/liquid will be emerging from the battery and attacking everything under the cab-seat or in the adjacent seat locker.

 

Motohome handbooks commonly advise that original equipment (OE) habitation batteries should be replaced on a type-for-type basis - so an OE wet-acid battery should be replaced with another wet-acid battery, or an OE gel battery with another gel battery. The Schaudt system fitted to your 2012 Hymer won’t have been optimised to charge an AGM battery and is likely to be set to use a gel-battery charging regimen. If you decide to fit Varta LFD wet-acid batteries, you’ll need to switch the charger to its wet-acid charging regimen.

[lennyhb]

Both my Banner AGM's failed after 18 months Banner & Hymer won't replace them under warranty unless they fail a CAA test which is a test for a starter battery which of course mine passed so the warranty is useless. On my own tests one battery was good for 10A/H the other 11 A/H. I looked at the LFD90 but in the end I shelled out for a couple of Gel batteries as I prefer fully sealed batteries when they are mounted in the habitaion area, mine are in a underfloor well beside the passenger seat on the right hand side of the van also 80A/H Gels give a larger capacity as you can use Gels to 80% DOD without too much effect on their life.

 

Two things I think added the demise of the AGM's the Electroblock does not have an AGM charge regime and they recommend setting it to Gel which never fully charges the batteries and the LR1218 solar regulator gives a constant 14.2 volts once the batteries are charged, in my case it was probably the LR1218 most lightly cased the problem as we rarely use EHU and of course the crap Banner batteries.

 

Anyway, I now have a pair of Sonnenschein Gels (part of Exide group they make the Exide Gels) and I replaced the LR1218 with a decent MPPT solar regulator and a solar split charge relay wired to the Elektroblock to take care of engine battery charging.

 

If you fit the LFD90's do remember to switch the Elektroblock to "wet cells", or you will cook them and make sure you vent them to the outside world, should be easy to do as Hymer vent the AGM's anyway (well they did in my van).

 

The difference in battery performance was noticeable immediately far better than the Banners were when the van was new, no substitute for decent batteries. Hymer now fit Varta AGM's and the latest Elektroblocks have an AGM setting but if we buy another Hymer I will insist on Gel batteries.

[Derek Uzzell]

lennyhb - 2016-08-01 12:21 PM

 

...If you fit the LFD90's do remember to switch the Elektroblock to "wet cells", or you will cook them and make sure you vent them to the outside world, should be easy to do as Hymer vent the AGM's anyway (well they did in my van)...

 

 

It’s been mentioned before on these forums that the vent-tube ‘hole’ in a Banner ‘wet-acid’ “Energy Bull” battery is non-standard and, consequently, the vent-tube itself requires a non-standard connector.

 

It’s reasonable to think that the vent-tube ‘hole’ in a Banner AGM battery is similarly non-standard and - if that’s correct - venting a Varta LFD battery replacement in Malcolm’s Hymer may require a modification to the vent-tube used with the Banner AGM battery (assuming there’s currently a vent-tube on Malcolm’s AGM battery). This won’t have been a potential issue for Lenny of course, as he replaced his vented Banner AGM batteries with gel-type batteries that are not designed to be fitted with a vent-tube.

[emjaiuk]

Thanks for all the replys. Lenny, I thought of gels, but I could buy 4 LFD90s for the price of a Sonnenschein gel. I don't doubt they're good batteries, but I'm not sure about value for money in a MH. You've got me thinking about the LR1218 though, thought Schaudt & Hymer were classic examples of German design and efficiency, but I'm beginning to wish we still had our Chausson! Was there any problems fitting a different MPPT controller?

 

 

Malcolm

[aandncaravan]

Emjaiuk, Most Hymer manuals don't say that the Motorhome owner shouldn't switch battery technology, but "entrust it to the Dealer".

That is because the battery location and the EBL setting needs to be considered by someone with knowledge.

 

There is no reason why battery technology can't be swapped by someone who understands the implications.

 

Be extra careful when adjusting the Gel/Wet switch, it is easily broken. We suggest you use only a Pen, not any other instrument like a Screw Driver?

 

 

There is a belief that Gel and AGM batteries do not Gas, that is not correct. They will Gas if used at Plate temperatures above 30 - 40 degrees (especially if the charge/discharge current exceeds 20amps) or if a fault occurs, like a higher than ideal charge.

 

If you read the technical spec for a Gel battery, it will state something like, "the battery will not lose fluid when used under normal conditions and within a set temperature range. When gas is released it will pressurise a Gel battery, the pressure assisting in causing the Hydrogen and Oxygen to re-combine back to Water".

 

 

When things go wrong inside a Gel battery they will Gas, the safety pressure release valve can fail leading to explosion.

It is not unusual to see an old Gel battery casing that is bulging from excess pressure.

 

 

Most Batteries (all technologies) will begin to Gas at a higher than ideal charge voltage, or higher than ideal temperature. Just 30 degrees for most Gel batteries.

If you charge or discharge at higher than the ideal 20amps per 100Ah battery, the temperature at the Plates can rise even higher, risking Gel battery explosion. See the same Victron Energy chart mentioned below, section 8, for how Temperature affects a battery.

 

A Bosch L5/Varta LFD will cope much better in these conditions. Only gassing when temperatures are reached that have long had a Gel battery gasping out fluid.

 

At this point the Gel battery is at risk of exploding, when the Varta, at worst, will just smell a bit.

 

 

So while Derek's caution on continuing to vent a none gassing LFD battery is understandable, his arguments apply equally to Gel and AGM batteries.

 

 

The Technology inside a Bosch L5/Varta LFD is unique, even under severe load conditions it will remain gas tight.

In a Motorhome an LFD/L5 is lower risk, both in terms of gassing and explosion, than Gel.

 

To distance itself from so called 'Maintenance free' batteries that vent fluid when the 'description' suggests they shouldn't, Bosch/Varta have adopted the term 'Absolutely Maintenance free' to describe their zero fluid loss battery.

 

 

 

Lenny has given some good advice, however he is incorrect in stating that a Gel can be discharged to a lower level, "without too much effect on their life". The effect on battery life can be catastrophic.

Yes a good Gel can be dropped right down to 80% discharged, but lifetime will be very severely affected.

 

Victron energy make some great super long life Gel batteries capable of being discharged 4,500 times when shallow discharged. However, regularly discharge them to 80% and that life drops by 2/3rds, or just 1500 cycles.

See 3/4 way down this page : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/resources/Victron%20Energy%20Battery%20Datasheet.pdf for the Victron Energy data sheet, Section 9 - Cycle Life.

Just to re-iterate how deep discharging a battery affects life (not just Gel batteries, but all batteries), the Victron Super long life AGM battery will last just 500 cycles if you deep discharge it to 80%, or 1,600 cycles if you shallow discharge it to 30%. That is a huge difference.

 

This applies to all manufacturers batteries from Exide to Rolls, but few publish the details. Few perform as well as the Victrons.

 

That is why all battery manufacturers recommend no more than 50% discharge for life/discharge compromise, or 30% for optimum balance in favour of long life.

 

Note that a good 90Ah Gel battery will generally be physically bigger, taking up more space than a Varta LFD 90. Or conversely the same size physical Gel battery has less capacity.

When you also take into account the much longer Gel charge time, up to twice as long to charge up as a Varta LFD, they just don't make sense as modern Motorhome batteries.

 

And that doesn't even take into account the more than double the Dollar cost of a Gel.

 

 

Before you replace the batteries, mark the Positive cable with Red Insulation tape (usually a Black or Blue cable) and the Negative with Black Tape (usually a Brown cable).

We get a lot of Charger units for repair that have been blown up by reverse polarity connection at the battery because of the confusing German/Italian battery cabling Colours.

 

 

On Solar charging either disconnect the Solar Panel when the batteries are full or fit a Solar regulator that has a very low 'Trickle/maintenance charge voltage of around 13.3v.

See our page on leaving a battery on permanent/long term charging : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/ehu-full-time-yes-or-no.php

The article is aimed at being on EHU long term, but Solar Power has exactly the same undesirable side effects unless you manage it.

 

 

[emjaiuk]

Thanks for your post, very informative. With regard to to solar, are you agreeing with Lenny that the Schaudt LR1218 used with an EBL99 gives out to high a voltage to a fully charged battery? If so why is their equipment used so widely? Would it be possible to replace the LR1218 with a quality MPPT controller and would it feed through the EBL99?

 

Malcolm

[Alanb]

emjaiuk - 2016-08-01 11:44 AM

 

I believe the sequence I need to follow to change a battery is , disconnect solar, switch off battery, remove fuse, disconnect +ve, disconnect -ve. Is this right?

 

 

Thanks in advance

 

Malcolm

 

Errrr NO!

 

Please, please disconnect the negative BEFORE disconnecting the positive. Also I would suggest that you tie the negative lead clear of the battery terminal, or enclose it in a tough plastic bag.

 

Reverse the sequence when reconnecting. That is positive terminal, negative terminal, then replace battery positive fuse.

 

If the negative lead is either still connected or springs back into contact with the battery terminal, while you are working on the positive terminal, there is a possible risk of the battery being short circuited, by a spanner shorting to earth. This could have very serious consequences e.g. burning, explosion and or fire.

Also use a spanner that is too short to bridge the battery terminals.

[aandncaravan]

Not an easy one to answer.

 

Schaudt specify a LR1218 as it works in harmony with the EBL.

The LR1218 Solar Regulator kit includes all the cables, connectors, fuses, instructions to charge BOTH the Habitation battery and the Starter battery at the same time with just simple plug and go. Lenny has fitted an additional split relay to enable this Starter battery charging on his vehicle with his new MPPT charger, when this came as standard with the LR1218.

 

 

Yes we agree with what we think Lenny is saying about Solar Overcharging batteries. It isn't that the LR1218 (and almost all generation 1 Solar regulators) gives out too high a voltage. The Maintenance charge of 13.8v is perfect for short term maintenance/trickle charging of a battery in use.

 

But constantly charging any battery, especially a modern battery with zero 'Self Discharge', while in 'long term storage' isn't likely to be the ideal. For that you require a specialist battery 'maintainer' that has exceptionally low current and minimal voltage, like 13.2v.

 

And that is exactly what Battery manufacturers are now specifying for charger units and some electronics manufacturers are already producing units to comply. For example the 2016 Schaudt LRM 1218 has a 13.4v 'maintenance' charge, the new Victron Energy chargers have a 13.2v maintenance rate, etc.

 

 

If the Motorhome is being used everyday then the average Solar regulator, including the LR1218, is perfect as the battery needs to be charged.

But charge a habitation battery at 13.8v for 9 months the Motorhome doesn't need it, and it's a different story, the ending of which will depend on many things from battery type, bank size, regulator, Country location, Weather, etc.

 

 

In our view, there has been a breakdown in the past by the Charger designers in their understanding of how Motorhomes are being used.

Motorhome mains charger units are exactly that, battery chargers, not battery maintainers. To charge a battery you want lots of amps and volts. To maintain a perfect battery that isn't being used month after month you require almost zero amps and lower volts.

 

Motorhome charger Designers (all types Solar and Mains) seem to have assumed that charging of the battery will only be done when the Battery/Motorhome is being used.

 

If you think about it, that is exactly how we employ chargers in most other walks of life? No one I know gets home at night and puts a battery charger on their Ford Focus so it is fully charged next time they want it?

My Neighbour doesn't keep his mobility Scooter on permanent charge. Just charges up the battery, then pulls the charger. The manual specifically says DON'T leave it on charge if the battery is full, and why would you?

 

So you can see why the designers have given us what they have, as they expected us to manage the charging.

 

 

In your case, you can either leave things as they are and shutdown the charging (both Solar or EHU as appropriate) when you know the batteries don't need it, or move to a later generation regulator that might (or might not) manage it better.

 

 

See our Solar pages Hints and Tips page for sggestions how to shutdown the Solar charge as required.

 

 

However, having said all that, just because you have suffered premature failure of a Banner AGM battery that is hyped up to be long life, does not mean there is an issue. From our experience of the Banner AGM you are lucky you got 4 years, most don't get 2 years. But then again, maybe that is not the original?.

 

As Lenny says the Banner AGM is not up to the advertising being dished out, maybe why Hymer have switched to Varta?

We don't think the Banner batteries are expensive because of the technology inside, but to pay for the advertising.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lennyhb]

aandncaravan - 2016-08-01 8:56 PM

 

Schaudt specify a LR1218 as it works in harmony with the EBL.

The LR1218 Solar Regulator kit includes all the cables, connectors, fuses, instructions to charge BOTH the Habitation battery and the Starter battery at the same time with just simple plug and go. Lenny has fitted an additional split relay to enable this Starter battery charging on his vehicle with his new MPPT charger, when this came as standard with the LR1218.

 

The LR1218 was fine with the older generation of Electroblocks that regulated the charge from the solar input.

EBL's fitted to current vans like the EBL 99, 29 & 101 the solar connection is straight through so in IMO the LR1218 totally unsuitable for use with this EBL's although you can get away with it with Gels as they don't mind being held at 14.2 volts.

 

 

Lenny has given some good advice, however he is incorrect in stating that a Gel can be discharged to a lower level, "without too much effect on their life". The effect on battery life can be catastrophic.

Yes a good Gel can be dropped right down to 80% discharged, but lifetime will be very severely affected.

 

From the graph below from Exide you can see an Exide Gel at 80% DODgives twice the life of their top quality wet cell leisure at 50% DOD, also 500 discharges to 80% DOD is unlikely to happen in the life of a leisure battery.

In my last van the Gels were still behaving like new at nearly 6 years old and it is not uncommon for Gels to last 8 or 9 years.

 

[emjaiuk]

Thanks again for the replys, although I would have prefered to be told evrything I have is perfect (lol)

 

I'll have to add Hymer to the list of companies I'm going to sue when I win the Euromillions :-D

 

I'll stick with the existing solar controller for a while at least.

 

Lenny, is your Hymer Ford based? I've discovered the footwell adjacent to the passenger seat which seems ideal for a second battery. Is this what you did?

 

Malcolm

[lennyhb]

emjaiuk - 2016-08-01 7:41 PM

 

Thanks for your post, very informative. With regard to to solar, are you agreeing with Lenny that the Schaudt LR1218 used with an EBL99 gives out to high a voltage to a fully charged battery? If so why is their equipment used so widely? Would it be possible to replace the LR1218 with a quality MPPT controller and would it feed through the EBL99?

 

Malcolm

See my post above about the LR1218.

 

Pics below of my MPPT regulator and the relay can be seen towards the top of the 2nd picture this connects to the starter battery via the EBL.

 

As for cost considering the life of Gels if keeping the van for a few years they probably work out cheaper.

[aandncaravan]

lennyhb - 2016-08-01 9:09 PM

 

aandncaravan - 2016-08-01 8:56 PM

 

Schaudt specify a LR1218 as it works in harmony with the EBL.

The LR1218 Solar Regulator kit includes all the cables, connectors, fuses, instructions to charge BOTH the Habitation battery and the Starter battery at the same time with just simple plug and go. Lenny has fitted an additional split relay to enable this Starter battery charging on his vehicle with his new MPPT charger, when this came as standard with the LR1218.

 

The LR1218 was fine with the older generation of Electroblocks that regulated the charge from the solar input.

EBL's fitted to current vans like the EBL 99, 29 & 101 the solar connection is straight through so in IMO the LR1218 totally unsuitable for use with this EBL's although you can get away with it with Gels as they don't mind being held at 14.2 volts.

 

 

Lenny has given some good advice, however he is incorrect in stating that a Gel can be discharged to a lower level, "without too much effect on their life". The effect on battery life can be catastrophic.

Yes a good Gel can be dropped right down to 80% discharged, but lifetime will be very severely affected.

 

From the graph below from Exide you can see an Exide Gel at 80% DODgives twice the life of their top quality wet cell leisure at 50% DOD, also 500 discharges to 80% DOD is unlikely to happen in the life of a leisure battery.

In my last van the Gels were still behaving like new at nearly 6 years old and it is not uncommon for Gels to last 8 or 9 years.

 

 

Lenny, The EBL 99 has been around since 2001. The EBL 29 is the EBL 99 but in a package available to all Motorhome manufacturers. Identical except for the number, even the wiring diagram is identical.

 

The LR1218, superseding the LRS1214, has only been around about 5 years at most, designed to work with the latest EBL's, even the pre 1999 units like the EBL 104's?

 

None of the EBL units from the EBL 164 to the latest EBL 119 (EBL 99 with AGM optimisation) has any Solar regulation whatever. All pass the Solar regulated output directly onto the main charging/power Bus. Exactly as they do with the latest 2016 LRM1218 MPPT Solar regulator.

If your LR1218 ran at a constant 14.2v it either had a fault, or wasn't able to get the batteries charged to a level that allowed it to drop into maintenance 13.8v mode or both?

 

 

The Graph is one of Shelf Storage lifetime, i.e. how long a battery can remain on the shelf before requiring recharge. It does not show depth of discharge versus the cyclic ability?

 

I was not questioning the life of the G80, many times we have said it is a legend at long life and agree that 8 years is not uncommon.

We were just questioning your statement that dropping a Gel down to 80% discharge is ok,"without too much effect on their life".

 

I know the Exide graph is supposed to show that a G80 is brilliant and can sit on the shelf for 2 years and still have 12.3v left, but I really, really wouldn't want one that had!!!

 

 

[emjaiuk]

Thanks Lenny, you've got a lot more room under your seat than I have! I'm still not convinced over gels, I can get the Vartas for less than £75 each, so I could replace them twice for less than the cost of two gels, but each to his own. A second solar panel is low down on my list of priorities, so I'll probably leave the solar regulator until then.

 

Malcolm

[lennyhb]

emjaiuk - 2016-08-01 9:25 PM

 

Lenny, is your Hymer Ford based? I've discovered the footwell adjacent to the passenger seat which seems ideal for a second battery. Is this what you did?

 

Malcolm

No it is on a Fiat, quite a different beast to the Ford based ones, they started making the Fiat one in 2012 and discontinued the Ford in 2013, Hymer now only build on Fiat & Merc bases.

 

On mine there is a heated underfloor compartment to the right hand side of the passenger seat (LHD) that takes 2 batteries.

 

Last photos you will get tonight, fed up with going out in the rain. :D

 

 

[lennyhb]

aandncaravan - 2016-08-01 9:49 PM

 

None of the EBL units from the EBL 164 to the latest EBL 119 (EBL 99 with AGM optimisation) has any Solar regulation whatever. All pass the Solar regulated output directly onto the main charging/power Bus. Exactly as they do with the latest 2016 LRM1218 MPPT Solar regulator.

If your LR1218 ran at a constant 14.2v it either had a fault, or wasn't able to get the batteries charged to a level that allowed it to drop into maintenance 13.8v mode or both?

The LRM1218 does reduce to 13.8v once battery is charged, the LR1218 does not I have it in writing from Udo at Schaudt.

 

The Graph is one of Shelf Storage lifetime, i.e. how long a battery can remain on the shelf before requiring recharge. It does not show depth of discharge versus the cyclic ability?

I uploaded the wrong graph, try this one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[aandncaravan]

But isn't that chart saying if you discharge to 30% you get well over 1000 cycles (guessing at 1,300 from the angle?) but if you discharge to 100%. i.e totally flat, you get only 1 cycle?

A Discharge to 80% gives about 500'ish cycles?

 

Doesn't that show that deep discharge down to 95% destroys a battery, 80% gives it an absolute hammering (losing more than half it's life) and that 30% DOD the best life/cycle compromise?

 

 

 

 

 

[kevina]

Gel Batteries a few facts and observations.

 

Temperature. when does anyones leisure battery ever reach 40C, mine live at under 20C all the time and I recharge at 45A into 2 x 110ah gels from deep discharge levels for hours via the b2b charger.

 

I have been reading forums for 7 years and cannot recall a single posting of a gel battery exploding but many of flooded batteries exploding. Just had a quick google to confirm this and no evidence of exploding gel batteries, only flooded.

 

Victron gel deep cycle: 50% dod = 750 cycles 80% dod = 500 cycles

Varta LFD90 “Long lasting” – up to twice the cyclic stability of conventional flooded batteries (up to 200 cycles @ 50% DOD) So, from the Exide chart Lenny posted lifetime cycles to 80% dod would be a poor 60 or so.

It is indisputably clear that gel batteries are far far superior.

 

If you have 2 lfd90s and discharge them to 50% you have 90Ah on tap and after 200 cycles they are finished. cost £160. weight 48kg

If you have 1 110Ah gel battery and discharge it to 80% dod you have 88ah on tap and it will last 500 cycles. cost £240 weight 34kg. smaller space required.

You don’t have to be Einstein to do the maths.

 

Charging. Gel batteries will charge at the same rate as, or faster than, flooded during the bulk charge phase, ie from 80% discharged up to 20% discharged,. They are more efficient; 98% gels v 89% for floodeds. The final 20% (the absorption phase) will take longer than flooded but lets not pussyfoot about, if you want capacity you’re going to use it.

You do need appropriate chargers for gel batteries but all vans have them these days, as do all solar regulators. For reference I disconnect the solar panel when the van is not in use (as that probably killed my last flooded batteries) and do not leave the mains charger on.

 

Self Discharge: Gels 1-3% per month, flooded 15% per month

Vibration resistance. Gel batteries resistance to vibration is 10X higher than flooded.

 

Kev

 

ps sorry emjaiuk!

[Derek Uzzell]

emjaiuk - 2016-08-01 9:58 PM

 

Thanks Lenny, you've got a lot more room under your seat than I have! I'm still not convinced over gels, I can get the Vartas for less than £75 each, so I could replace them twice for less than the cost of two gels, but each to his own. A second solar panel is low down on my list of priorities, so I'll probably leave the solar regulator until then.

 

Malcolm

 

You need to replace your dying Banner AGM battery. It is now August 2 and the Malvern Show begins August 12.

 

Just install a pair of Varta LFD90s - there’s no good reason to think they won’t be adequate for your requirements and plenty of reasons to believe they will be. If you start to agonise over wet-acid versus gel (and/or cheap over dear) you’ll end up at Malvern with no TV.

[lennyhb]

Kev,

You sum it up perfectly, also no substitute for real life performance and in my experience Gels excel. I accept A&N are good with electrics but sure how much personal experience they have living in a Motorhome off grid all very well quoting theory but theory is not practice.

 

Derek,

I spent a month agonising over whether to fit LDF90's or Gel's went for Gels and it was the right decision, the cost is negligible considering the improved performance and battery life,. These days I will not consider any other battery (traction batteries excepted but they won't fit). Different story if you use EHU but when you rely on your batteries you want the best

[StuartO]

I'd like to add a word about moderation in the number of leisure batteries you fit - even if your MH has two that are duff, so you naturally think of fitting two replacements.

 

I replaced my pair of Exide G80s with a single G80.  This was because I'm more often than not on an EHU and so a second battery is superfluous and involves signoficant extra payload.  With solar panels I reckon I'll still be OK off EHU for  several days because although we use our TV for several hours per day, the leisure battery recharges fully the following day anyway.

 

I might well have replaced with a Varta battery instead of another Exide but I got an Exide cheaply because another MH owner wanted to replace his new MH's single Exide with two matching non-Exide, so I got it half price.  By the way my original pair of Exide G80s lasted 10 years and even then they were still going strong.  I replaced them purely on age.

 

[emjaiuk]

My head hurts!

 

I've decided I'm going to fit a single Exide G80 Gel for now.

 

1.One of the over riding considerations is that I've got to much on to find the time to work out the best place for a second battery, plus the extra wiring and vent tubes. The G80 is a straight swap.

2. As far as I can tell my existing setup of EBL99 and LR1218 seems to suit a gel

3. We bought the van from Bundesvan, who I would recommend to anyone, and they have said they will pay for a like for like replacements. I've found the G80 from Tanya at just under £145, which is cheaper than a Banner 59501 AGM replacement.

 

If anyone knows of a cheaper price for either I'd be grateful to hear from them.

 

I still think that I will at some stage change to FLA, but the technology may have changed yet again in 3.4 years, and I still need to decide what to do about the charging profile of the EBL99 and LR1218.

 

I do wish I hadn't had to sell my Chausson, but loss of my C1 forced the issue. Once again thanks for all your comments and advice.

 

Malcolm

 

[Derek Uzzell]

lennyhb - 2016-08-02 9:36 AM

 

...Derek,

I spent a month agonising over whether to fit LDF90’s...

 

Malcolm does not have that luxury - he needs to decide pretty quickly about this if he is to obtain and install new batteries before going to Malvern.

 

I’ve never read anything about Varta LFD batteries having a sub-standard lifespan and - although gel batteries may have a good reputation for longevity - that definitely doesn’t guarantee that the Sonnenschein batteries you chose to fit are immortal.

 

If it were certain that opting for a pair of Sonnenschein gel batteries would guarantee Malcolm, say, a useful battery-life of at least 8 years, whereas opting for a pair of Varta LFD90s would result in an expected battery-lifespan of less than 4 years, it could reasonably be argued that paying £300 for the Sonnenscheins would be a better bet than paying £150 for the Vartas. But there’s absolutely no guarantee that this would be the case, nor is it known how long Malcolm intends to keep his Exsis.

 

It’s up to Malcolm, but I’d opt for the Vartas and, as time is currently an issue, I’d fit one now (with no vent-tube if the Banner AGM battery didn’t have one) and add a 2nd one after Malvern when venting and installation in the seat-locker can be sorted out.

 

(In principle a pair of Varta LFD90s should be shoehornable into an EMPTY Transit Mk 7 cab-seat pedestal, though this would not be practicable if Hymer has installed equipment in Malcolm’s motorhome’s cab passenger-seat pedestal. I suspect that, as Malcolm was proposing to fit one of the batteries in a seat locker, that he knows that two batteries won’t go under the passenger seat, but the possibility may still be worth mentioning.)

[StuartO]

These threads about which leisure battery to choose can be interesting but they can also perhaps get a bit anal - especially of people end up agonising too much

 

Leisure batteries are, in the greater order of MH costs, relatively cheap and mostly turn out to be extremely good value.  Hesitating to replace them when they show signs of failure must be a bad idea.

 

Some makes seem to get a bad name (I've never had a Banner but based on what others say I wouldn't seek one out) and some (eg currently Varta LFD) seems to acquire almost cult status.  It's certainly worth avoiding brands you've never heard of and probably best to avoid buy batteries from caravan dealers altogether.

 

[lennyhb]

emjaiuk - 2016-08-02 10:47 AM

 

My head hurts!

 

I've decided I'm going to fit a single Exide G80 Gel for now.

 

1.One of the over riding considerations is that I've got to much on to find the time to work out the best place for a second battery, plus the extra wiring and vent tubes. The G80 is a straight swap.

2. As far as I can tell my existing setup of EBL99 and LR1218 seems to suit a gel

3. We bought the van from Bundesvan, who I would recommend to anyone, and they have said they will pay for a like for like replacements. I've found the G80 from Tanya at just under £145, which is cheaper than a Banner 59501 AGM replacement.

 

If anyone knows of a cheaper price for either I'd be grateful to hear from them.

The Sonnenschein SL75 (78A/H) is a direct replacement for the G80 and reckoned to be a better battery a few quid cheaper from Tanya, they make the G80 for Exide. If you order 2 from Tanya ring them they will only charge carriage for one.