Adria Twin marker lights

[witzend]

Hi anyone have a Adria Twin and know where the supply for the side marker lights comes from

[lennyhb]

I would assume it is connected to the vehicle side light circuits standard way of wiring all vehicles.

[witzend]

lennyhb - 2016-08-04 9:40 AM

 

I would assume it is connected to the vehicle side light circuits standard way of wiring all vehicles.

 

That would be to easy they where a after market fitment and where they made their connection is the problem

[Matrix Meanderer]

Suggest you have a chat with Stuart Britt who operates the following website:

http://www.adriaspares.co.uk/

 

This is an official Adria approved site so he should be able to sort your problem.

 

How about joining the Adria Owners Club at the same time

:-D

http://www.clubadria.co.uk/

 

[witzend]

Hi Ian many thanks for the links. I had heard of a Adria converter in the UK I think It was in the East of the country but have been unable to find any address wonder if it may have been your link. Thanks again

[Matrix Meanderer]

witzend - 2016-08-05 6:21 PM

 

Hi Ian many thanks for the links. I had heard of a Adria converter in the UK I think It was in the East of the country but have been unable to find any address wonder if it may have been your link. Thanks again

 

OK but not quite sure what you mean about an Adria converter?

 

Only know about dealers and spares companies.

[jb6981]

E bay: thats where I sourced the Hella side marker lights for my Hobby. There are 12,954 listings but only 3 specific to Adria, but the lights on your van are probably by Hella anyway.

[witzend]

jb6981 - 2016-08-05 8:50 PM

 

E bay: thats where I sourced the Hella side marker lights for my Hobby. There are 12,954 listings but only 3 specific to Adria, but the lights on your van are probably by Hella anyway.

 

I don't need lights

[Derek Uzzell]

Are the side-marker lights on your Adria Twin ‘add-ons’ rather than standard?

 

I would have thought that a “Twin” would be sufficiently short in length to not legally require side-marker lights and, if that were so, the base-vehicle or converter wouldn’t spend money on fitting them.

[Keithl]

Hi,

 

I'm guessing your Twin is built on a Fiat so does Fiat not provide a junction/fuse box, (possibly around the A or B pillars or immediately behind the drivers seat?) for converters to connect any additional wiring to?

 

If so then this should be your first port of call. Can you see wiring colours at the lights to try and identify them when you find them?

 

Alternatively have Adria simply connected them directly into the Fiat rear lights? Assuming of course they are at the rear!

 

Keith.

[Priston]

I assume these are the oval amber festoon lights. if so they are probably made by Hella and are obtainable from large motor factors and some of the good caravan shops

[Keithl]

Priston - 2016-08-06 11:01 AM

 

I assume these are the oval amber festoon lights. if so they are probably made by Hella and are obtainable from large motor factors and some of the good caravan shops

 

Priston,

 

You got the wrong end of the stick from Witzends request...

 

witzend - 2016-08-05 9:29 PM

 

I don't need lights

 

He actually asked if anyone knows where they take their power from.

 

Keith.

[witzend]

Before asking initial question I had checked every where door pillar. rear & front lights fuse box had van on ramp and checked underneath wires leave lights and vanish into van hidden by internal fitments so hoped someone had already had the same problem and could answer my question.

 

Lights are not legally reqd but if fitted should work so before I remove them and replace with reflectors I'd like to try fix them.

[aandncaravan]

Some of the vans we have worked on, have them powered from the Habitation electrics, not the 'Bonnet'.

 

If it is a Schaudt equipped van, look for a little blue add on box, often next to to the Electroblock, I think an AD 01/02.

 

 

If it is a Nordelettronica equipped van have a look at the Fuseboard, it might have a fused output like the photo? See the far left 'Side Marker' fuse?

 

Note that when wired in this way I think they usually operate only when the engine is running, triggered by the Alternator D+? There is no separate switch, if the engine is running they are on, usually.

 

 

 

[witzend]

Hi thanks for reply it's a electro bloc but no additional box just the 2 fuses seen bottom right both are ok and have been removed and cleaned every thing else is working side lights switching as normal, I'm not sure if the marker lights have been on all the time as very difficult to see if working in daylight.

[paul2]

Hi I have an adria twin 640 slx with side marker lights these lights are the same as on works extra long van, they are shown in the fiat hand book for extra long van, the wiring I have seen comes from the fiat loom these are factory fit lamps. So are you sure yours are not factory fit!

Paul

[witzend]

They aren't req on under 6 mtr I've looked at a lot of Fiat vans and they have none even in dealers nr by. I've looked on fiat parts and their lights have bulbs and mine are LED. I've a workshop manual for my van and there's no mention so I assume their not factory fit

[aandncaravan]

Not seen a Schaudt EBL 208 with side marker lights yet no AD 01, so I am guessing here, but could they be powered from the D+ driven circuit Pin 22?

 

If you have a D+ trigger fault that might explain them not operating? Pin 16 is the D+ input so should show 14.4v when the engine starts?

 

Are the D+ circuits definitely triggering when the Alternator starts spinning, i.e. Habitation battery voltage rising to 14.4v, etc?

 

Other than that the wiring schematic doesn't give a clue as to where it might be powered from, sorry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Robinhood]

...the accessory units AD0n etc. and the NE equivalent are essentially Canbus relays that can be added at build time to make it possible for a converter to augment Canbus-driven circuits without causing "body computer" issues.

 

As the OP states, side marker lights are not required on this length of vehicle and do not appear to be present on other examples, so it is unlikely to be a factory installation, and thus also unlikely to have any of the original-fit Canbus add-ons.

 

The most obvious options for someone to add these lights are (IMO) as follows:

 

1) To add them in a circuit that is controlled by a relay on the D+ (or equivalent) circuit - this relay feed could be taken between the alternator and the input feed to the EBL, or (as Alan says) from the EBL pin itself. If done this way, it is very likely that +ve and -ve power feeds for the lights would be required (though if they are LED they'll be a pretty light load), and I would expect these to be taken from one of the batteries (though if the EBL D+ pinout is being used, then an EBL fused circuit might be appropriate). If it were me, I might choose to power DRLs this way, but not necessarily side-markers, as they would be on all the time the engine is running.

 

2) It appears to me that (with light-loading LEDs) the relay above might be omitted simply by "jumping" the fridge +ve and -ve (which should only be powered with the engine running).

 

3. The best and most elegant way would be to obtain a cheap 'Canbus' Relay (fairly readily available - I have one here I was going to use to switch the rear camera before I decided to put a manual switch in). Power for the lights themselves would best be taken direct from the (vehicle) battery, and the relay low-power side would need to "jump" the vehicle sidelight supply at some point. The unit I have is smaller than a box of matches - so easy to hide.

 

If I were you, I'd be trying to trace a potential power feed from the other end - looking for potential additional circuits added to the EBL - esp fridge and D+ - and any additional feeds direct back to the vehicle battery. If the lights are not functioning, then a fuse, a broken circuit, or a dodgy relay are the main suspects - I think you've already checked the EBL fuses, though?

 

[aandncaravan]

Neither the AD01 or the Nordelettronica shown connect into the vehicle Canbus, or the Vehicle base wiring.

As per most Motorhomes the only connection from the Base vehicle is from the Starter battery and the D+ alternator circuit.

When wired this way, they normally use power from the habitation battery to light the Marker lights, just trigged by the existing D+ input already wired into the distribution boxes, like the Schaudt EBL 208, Nordelettronica NE185, etc.

 

If the lights are LED they could run from the EBL's Pin 22 direct as this has a 2A capability rating, but is unfused directly.

However there is a 2A fuse in the D+ circuit from the Alternator, usually located near the Starter battery, so if the D+ circuit was overloaded, this would melt to protect things.

 

 

 

[Robinhood]

...I'll have to disagree with you there Alan.

 

Whilst, as a box containing relays, triggers and outputs in a given configuration, they can be used for all kinds of connections, the Schaudt AD0n series of "terminal extensions" are designed to augment the base-vehicle's Canbus system, but isolate the effects (by taking signals from the bus to operate the relays, whilst powering the operated circuits off-bus).

 

The (Google translated) Schaudt description is as follows:

 

The relay adapter AD01 is used for the chassis of a German car manufacturer as an extension to attach additional loads on the vehicle can.

It has built-in relay controls to allow the connection of eg additional side marker lights as generated no false positives when Lamp defect indicator of the chassis.

it also beeihnhaltet a relay gain of "D +" - function and other adjustments..

 

The box isn't, of course, intended to operate as a "Can node" (interpreting Can signals itself and reacting to them), but rather to take a Can-generated 12v switching signal to operate the appropriate relay(s) (and thus to provide off-bus power to a circuit).

 

The block diagram of the AD02, for instance, clearly shows 4 "position light" output circuits available, protected by a single 5 amp fuse and triggered by a "position light" input to the associated relay. This, where available, will be the input provided by jumping the Canbus-generated 12v signal provided to converter in the pillar, as mentioned already in the thread.

 

If the (this particular) signal were provided by D+, any newly- attached lights would be powered when the engine was running, but not when it was off but the sidelights were illuminated - which is not the required effect for side marker/position lights.

 

The AD02 has additional (undesignated) circuits which you may wish to trigger from D+ (so that they work only when the engine is running), in addition to two separately-triggered circuits designated left and right fog lamp (which again, shouldn't be triggered by D+, and may well be designed to allow A-Class manufacturers to add non-OEM fog-lamps triggered via the original Canbus signals).

 

The principle is much the same as bypass relays used in towing, and, as I said in my previous post, it's pretty easy to buy a simple, cheap "Canbus Relay" to provide a similar function - my suspicion is that the OP's 'van has taken just such a route.

[Derek Uzzell]

My Ducato’s side marker lights illuminate when ‘parking lights’ are selected and with the motorhome’s ignition-key removed, not just when the vehicle’s motor is running.

 

Witzend has not said when his Adria Twin was built (2007?) but I would have thought that the above ‘dual’ capability would be available on all reasonably-recent Ducatos when side marker lights are factory-fitted.

 

As Witzend has said, his Adria Twin’s side marker lights have been retrofitted. (They aren’t mandatory on a 5.99m-long vehicle and, in any case, his are LED type not the factory-fit ‘bulb’ type.)

 

I suppose someone MIGHT choose to use a motorhome’s habitation-battery to power retrofitted side marker lights, though it would seem (to me) to be an odd approach if the lights were to illuminate as parking lights.

 

The logical approach would surely be (as Lennyhb suggested in this thread’s 2nd posting) to ‘piggy-back’ the side marker lights on the Ducato’s front/rear ‘‘side light’ circuitry. But as DIYers are a law unto themselves, how this task would have been approached on Witzend’s motorhome is anybody’s guess.

 

The (currently inoperative) side marker lights on Witzend’s Adria are not legally obligatory. Consequently, that they do not function is not a motoring offence and should not result in an MOT test failure.

 

Lights do not have to work merely because they are present on a vehicle - obligatory lights have to work, non-obligatory lights do not. Admittedly an MOT-tester (or a member of the police) might need to be convinced of this, but there you go!

[Robinhood]

...Derek, having now got the block diagram for the AD01, it is clear to me that its intended use (as expected) is to provide a variety of switched and unswitched circuits from the vehicle battery, with the position lights circuit switched by its own "trigger" (ostensibly the provided "side-lights" on signal).

 

TBH, this AD01 (Ducato) block diagram is much more obvious in this than the AD02 (Sprinter) one I previously referenced.

 

Edited to add:

 

I know this may be irrelevant to the OPs question, but it builds on the discussion here, demonstrates how a "factory-fit" option might be approached, and may just help someone who is researching the AD0n units.

[aandncaravan]

RobinHood, you are right, when you said it was a Canbus relay, I took it to mean controlled by the Canbus system. Apologies.

 

 

 

 

[witzend]

Hi I'd like to Thank everyone for their Help with this problem after a suggestion from the Fiat Forum that led lights alone may not be enough to trigger a relay I had another look at a relay found screwed to the body at the rear of the drivers door panel. I did as suggested and drilled a hole in the top and gave it a spray with switch contact cleaner and after a few minutes I gave the lights a try and they worked. I've now replaced with a new relay and still works. So many Thanks All

 

Derek my vans side lights work as yours but markers lights only work with ignition switched on.

 

http://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/441352-x250-side-marker-lights-failure.html#post4189862