Genarators

[stvekay]

I suppose it is really selfish going to wild camp,away from it all,and expect peace and quite, I really hadn't thought about it that way round. Not sure on a "proper" campsite (does that include CLs) you would need one. Oh well we all have are own opinions and needs/wants.

[Colin Leake]

We have a Honda we used to take racing with us because we needed one. However I never take it now we've finished racing. It's worth bearing in mind that they are heavy bits of kit and rather smelly as is the petrol you need to take. O.K. If you have a garage I suppose but you'd need to check the loading. Also very prone to being nicked so you'd need to bring it in at night.

[KeithM]

Thewad - 2016-08-09 5:42 PM

 

i have the above generator and a microwave in mine and it runs that ok obvious depends on the microwave wattage, without looking i think mine is a 900w.

 

Just picking up on this for those that do not know.

 

When a microwave is sold as a '900w' it actually is approximately twice that for power usage so, 1800w

 

The quoted rating is the output and not what it needs.

 

Check the label.

 

Just a heads up so that you can by the correct generator, if you need one. ;-)

[StuartO]

A bit more on choosing the right size of generator........

 

If you want your generator to be available as a standby at home, in case of a power cut, you need a minimum of 2kw because even though running your TV, a few lights and your central heating pump might be withing the capacity of a 1kw generator, your fridges and freezers have compressor motors which impose a heavy start up demand.

 

By the way on the subject of wild camping, if you are using someone else's land, not necessarily seeking prior permission for occupancy at all, never mind exclusivity, it would be selfish to object to someone else doing the same thing, with or without a generator - wouldn't it?  Or do wild campers think they acquire squatters rights to disapprove of other people sharing with them if they get there first?

 

[Archiesgrandad]

Perhaps we should all acquire a generous helping of tolerance, particularly in respect of generators, barbecues, those smelly things on toilets, dogs that roam free. and all the other things that annoy us in our turn. in respect of generators I believe that they have a sensible contribution to make, and whilst I don't want my neighbours running a generator all day, they are reasonably efficient at charging a flat battery. Don't use the 12 volt bit, plug the generator into the EHU, it will do the job much quicker.

We live in a free country, and are entitled to our own opinions, and some of those opinions may not be yours, but as long as people are acting within the law they should be allowed to get on with things. People can be really strange, there are even people who support Aston Villa, or Corbyn, sometimes both, just let them get on with it.

Can you imagine, a Corbyn supporting Villa fan?, I suppose there must be one.

AGD

[veletron]

Generators are simply not necessary - equip your van for the situations you will use it in and you'll have no need for a genny. For some folks the genny is a cheapo alternative to a van properly prepared for the use-case (additional batteries, solar, B2B, Efoy, efficient appliances etc). and to hell with anyone else.

 

Some folks at the various ski area's I visit in Scotland use the damned things (usually on the end of a long lead well away from their own vans, but close to mine!).

 

I seem to manage perfectly well for 3 or 4 nights with 2x leisure batteries and a couple hundred watts of solar (which gives only a few AH each day in winter!), while other folks appear to need to run a genny after a single nights wild camping - god only knows what they have running in their vans!

 

Nigel

[Violet1956]

Don't laugh ...how do I find out if my second hand van (2006 Rapido 746F) has an inverter? I've been boiling a kettle and using an electric toaster when on hook-up with no trouble. :$ Veronica

[StuartO]

Violet1956 - 2016-08-10 1:30 PMDon't laugh ...how do I find out if my second hand van (2006 Rapido 746F) has an inverter? I've been boiling a kettle and using an electric toaster when on hook-up with no trouble. :$ Veronica

1   If it had an inverter the Dealer would almost certainly have told you as part of the sales pitch.

2   If there is only one cable connected to each terminal of the leisure battery you are unlikely to have an inverter fitted.

3   If there are two or more cables connected to each pole of the leisure battery, track along the heaviest-looking pair and if they lead you to an inverter, you've got one.  (That doesn't mean that it works or that inverters are a good idea anyway.)

4  Toasters designed to work on a gas hob can work quite well but get the single-slice horizontal version rather than a pyramid-shaped one supposed to do several slices - they are useless.

 

[Violet1956]

StuartO - 2016-08-10 3:00 PM

Violet1956 - 2016-08-10 1:30 PMDon't laugh ...how do I find out if my second hand van (2006 Rapido 746F) has an inverter? I've been boiling a kettle and using an electric toaster when on hook-up with no trouble. :$ Veronica

1   If it had an inverter the Dealer would almost certainly have told you as part of the sales pitch.

2   If there is only one cable connected to each terminal of the leisure battery you are unlikely to have an inverter fitted.

3   If there are two or more cables connected to each pole of the leisure battery, track along the heaviest-looking pair and if they lead you to an inverter, you've got one.  (That doesn't mean that it works or that inverters are a good idea anyway.)

4  Toasters designed to work on a gas hob can work quite well but get the single-slice horizontal version rather than a pyramid-shaped one supposed to do several slices - they are useless.

Thanks Stuart. I am going out to have a look. Can't remember it being part of the sales pitch. I'm such a twit I had assumed that because there were domestic style plug sockets I could simply plug low wattage stuff in them.

[globebuster]

You can if you're on EHU!!! ......you would only use an inverter when mains is not available - to convert 12v to 240v

[PJay]

Violet1956 - 2016-08-10 3:06 PM

StuartO - 2016-08-10 3:00 PM

Violet1956 - 2016-08-10 1:30 PMDon't laugh ...how do I find out if my second hand van (2006 Rapido 746F) has an inverter? I've been boiling a kettle and using an electric toaster when on hook-up with no trouble. :$ Veronica

1   If it had an inverter the Dealer would almost certainly have told you as part of the sales pitch.

2   If there is only one cable connected to each terminal of the leisure battery you are unlikely to have an inverter fitted.

3   If there are two or more cables connected to each pole of the leisure battery, track along the heaviest-looking pair and if they lead you to an inverter, you've got one.  (That doesn't mean that it works or that inverters are a good idea anyway.)

4  Toasters designed to work on a gas hob can work quite well but get the single-slice horizontal version rather than a pyramid-shaped one supposed to do several slices - they are useless.

Thanks Stuart. I am going out to have a look. Can't remember it being part of the sales pitch. I'm such a twit I had assumed that because there were domestic style plug sockets I could simply plug low wattage stuff in them.[/quotebeing on Hook Up, means you ARE plugged in to Mains electric. The mains would not work without the hook up.

[stvekay]

veletron - 2016-08-10 12:50 PM

 

Generators are simply not necessary - equip your van for the situations you will use it in and you'll have no need for a genny. For some folks the genny is a cheapo alternative to a van properly prepared for the use-case (additional batteries, solar, B2B, Efoy, efficient appliances etc). and to hell with anyone else.

 

Some folks at the various ski area's I visit in Scotland use the damned things (usually on the end of a long lead well away from their own vans, but close to mine!).

 

I seem to manage perfectly well for 3 or 4 nights with 2x leisure batteries and a couple hundred watts of solar (which gives only a few AH each day in winter!), while other folks appear to need to run a genny after a single nights wild camping - god only knows what they have running in their vans!

 

Nigel

I agree entirely if you cant manage without electric, go to a site with H/U or pitch up where there is no one to hear it. Would it be reasonable and unselfish of me to play loud music? In my opinion the exception would be disability scooters etc. As somebody else mentioned. And yes I am an intolerant old git!!

 

[StuartO]

stvekay - 2016-08-10 4:22 PM...... And yes I am an intolerant old git!!

You said it. 

 

I don't carry my generator these days and I too would not enjoy hearing one running while camped anywhere.  I think the last time was in the camping area of a MH Show, where there was of course no EHU and a great big US RV had a noisy little two stroke generator running.  But it only ran for a few hours and not after 10pm, as I vaguely remember the "rules" were.

 

We have to be a little bit tolerant of the needs of others sometimes, don't we?

 

[stvekay]

My problem is I am 99% perfect. The 1% is am intolerant of people making unnecessary noise.

 

We have to be a little bit tolerant of the needs of others sometimes, don't we?

 

Needs or wants?

[Violet1956]

Violet1956 - 2016-08-10 3:06 PM

StuartO - 2016-08-10 3:00 PM

Violet1956 - 2016-08-10 1:30 PMDon't laugh ...how do I find out if my second hand van (2006 Rapido 746F) has an inverter? I've been boiling a kettle and using an electric toaster when on hook-up with no trouble. :$ Veronica

1   If it had an inverter the Dealer would almost certainly have told you as part of the sales pitch.

2   If there is only one cable connected to each terminal of the leisure battery you are unlikely to have an inverter fitted.

3   If there are two or more cables connected to each pole of the leisure battery, track along the heaviest-looking pair and if they lead you to an inverter, you've got one.  (That doesn't mean that it works or that inverters are a good idea anyway.)

4  Toasters designed to work on a gas hob can work quite well but get the single-slice horizontal version rather than a pyramid-shaped one supposed to do several slices - they are useless.

Thanks Stuart. I am going out to have a look. Can't remember it being part of the sales pitch. I'm such a twit I had assumed that because there were domestic style plug sockets I could simply plug low wattage stuff in them.

Well I had a look. The battery is in a recess in the load space under the fixed bed with no room for anything else in it. Seems to have two blue wires connected to the negative terminal and just one red wire to the positive. All of equal gauge I would say. Can't see where any of the wires go outside the recess. I don't think I have a an inverter then. Another twit question why am I able to boil an electric kettle though if I haven't got one? Can testify as to the uselessness of the pyramid style gas stove top toasters. I ordered one, told the supplier it was pants and they refunded my money without me having to return it....result! :-)

[Keithl]

Violet1956 - 2016-08-10 6:02 PM

 

Another twit question why am I able to boil an electric kettle though if I haven't got one?

 

 

Veronica,

 

Because you are plugged into EHU, just as though your kettle was plugged in in your kitchen at home.

 

Try unplugging your EHU and see what happens, I bet your electric kettle will no longer work!

 

Keith.

[Violet1956]

Oops just read all the responses so my last question has been answered. Thanks people. So I only need an inverter if I am not on hook-up. One day when I have retired I will read up all about this stuff and try to understand it. The OH is a maverick (and I love him for it) who doesn't take much interest in the technical.

[Ventura]

For what its worth, I have a small Honda generator, the same as the one shown in the link on a previous post.

Its an excellent bit of kit and when used in the correct environment its invaluable.

 

I wouldn't choose to use it on a campsite of course but as I use my camper to attend motoring/motorcycle events around the country it gets a great deal of use.

Camping in the paddock of a race circuit shows just how noisy some of the cheaper alternatives to the Hondas really are! 8-)

 

If your thinking of buying a geni, and are not put off by some of the comments in this thread, then my advice would be to buy once, and buy the best.

 

 

V.

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

StuartO - 2016-08-10 4:44 PM

 

...We have to be a little bit tolerant of the needs of others sometimes, don't we?

 

Their "needs" yes....but their "wants"? no, not necessarily ....

 

The vast majority of these supposed "needs" seem to be little more than "wanting" to watch their "soaps" , power the likes of a microwave and/or the missus's hair straighteners and/or their kid's dvd player/computer games... *-)

 

Before anyone posts about how their mate/brother-in-law/a bloke at work, has a portable dialysis machine and/or a mobility scooter etc well again, somewhere with hook-up would probably provide a better charging option.

[aandncaravan]

A generator is a portable EHU post. It allows you to be able to use almost everything in the vehicle without spending a fortune and time on modifications. But the biggest plus is being without the usual reliability issues that often arise out of all the upgrades that are the alternative, like Solar, additional batteries, B2B, Battery chewing Invertors, EFOY, etc.

 

Almost every Generator we have seen/used is unsociable, noisy and often smelly, except the Honda Eu10i, which is unbelievably quiet. Put it under one of the Rain Hoods and you won't hear it running from 3 metres away.

 

Don't classify all Generators in the same bracket because you had a bad experience with a poor one. Almost all are hideous, but the EU10i is a very different piece of kit.

 

In a not too distant life we spent a lot of time on Citroen H vans that are almost always converted to Catering units, without exception, running on Generator power. Every single one into the workshop had the Kitchen area generator powered. One of the worst being a Pramac Diesel.

So we have first hand experience of a lot of nasty units.

 

The first time I heard a Honda EU10i running I thought it had stalled, it was so quiet. The other 'Silent' Honda's in the range are far quieter than the competition most, yet even the very good 'Silent' Honda Eu20i is 3 times noisier.

 

The EU10i might only be 1,000watts but it will run a 700w microwave and do almost all you want in a Motorhome, silently and without spending huge amounts of money upgrading the vehicle. Most of which is lost when you sell the Motorhome. The Honda goes with you to the next Motorhome without the hassle or weight of the usual upgrade work that is done to enable a Motorhome to be independent.

 

By the way the poster who quoted a Microwave uses double it's 'cooking' power is wrong. That figure is almost always quoted, but the actual figure is nearer 50%, for example an 850w microwave needs about 1,200watts, not the 1900watt figure usually 'expected'. You will also often read stories about Microwaves also needing extra 'start-up' power, which is actually only a few watts on modern Microwaves not the hundreds often quoted.

 

One Citroen HY van had a EU10i that coped with lights and a Fridge or a Tesco's 700w Microwave (but not both Fridge and Microwave together) without issue. When the Microwave was being used the Honda noise rose slightly, but only for the few minutes the microwave was on.

 

Way less intrusive than someone clogging up their Motorhome Diesel engine, charging up a dying 12v system via the Alternator.

 

As someone else says on here, don't make the mistake of thinking the Asian Honda copies are anything like the same in either noise, fuel usage, reliability, running time, petrol fume retention (the Honda fuel system is 'sealed' but a nasty Hyundai copy we had in wasn't and gave off an obnoxious fuel smell), exhaust smoke (lack of in the Hondas case), Oil consumption rate, etc.

A Honda Eu10i holds it's value well, still worth 60% of value at 8 years of age.

 

In normal circumstances a EU10i's running time will only be a few hours every three days, as an EU10i matched to a decent charger in the Motorhome will recharge a 30% discharged 100Ah x 2 battery bank in about 3 hours. The average Solar panel will take 2 days to create the same 60Ah in an average British Summer.

If you add a second/auxiliary mains charger you could reduce the generator battery recharge time to just 1.5 hours a day.

 

1.5 hours every 3 days, the timing of which can be when neighbours are off site, from a super quiet Genny is not exactly the most annoying thing ever?? Very different picture to all those painted above.

 

Note that a Sargent EC325/EC328 can 'supercharge' a battery like an LFD90 off line at much higher than normal volts, making the charging/Generator running time even shorter.

 

The Honda Eu10i is not a Generator, more a 'Fuel Cell'.

Weighs a lot less than the alternative option, has almost zero depreciation, and zero impact on the vehicles saleability which won't have a stack of after market items with reliability issues.

 

With the EU10i option, absolutely nothing changes in the Motorhome if you want to be 100% independent. Just plug the EHU cable into the Honda's 16A point and 230v is at the vehicles 13A sockets. Not just one or two, but every 230v power point.

 

All available without some Inverter sucking 200amps out of your batteries that some poor charging system will have to put back. :-(

 

 

Incidently, if you get a chance to watch the Wheeler Dealers episode (series 16 I think?) that featured the Citroen HY van we restored for them, along with our Ford Engine transplant, you will see that the last 15 minutes of the show is dedicated to the Installation of a huge Inverter/Fast Charger and massive battery, 'to allow the van to work off grid'.

 

In less than 2 months it was all ripped out by the buyer and a generator,used as the Inverter didn't work.

Well, it sort of did. After a days work you had to drive it for a minimum 18 hours for the batteries to be fully charged for the next day. When your working day was 9 hours, allow 6 hours for sleep and the required driving time to recharge the batteries made for a 33 hour day.

 

I have about 4 emails sent to Attaboy TV with all the calculations we did saying it wouldn't work, even a personal one to Ed China, but because the Inverter installers (£4,300 worth) said we were wrong, they went ahead.

 

Attaboy paid for the Invertor to be removed as so many aspects were flawed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stvekay]

I suppose generators are like toupees you never see/hear a good one :-D

[veletron]

Agreed, generators are not all equal, but having heard a Honda 10i at Glencoe ski centre on the end of a 10M long cable located much closer to my van than to the van it was powering, I know they are far from silent! Quiet yes, silent no.

 

To add insult to injury, both Glencoe and Glenshee have hookup points (in plain view) the genny owners would rather make a racket for all to 'enjoy' than pay for a silent hookup!

 

Sorry, but all the generator use I have thus-far seen comes down to the genny owner not giving a damn about anyone else as long as they are fine.

 

As for mains, I have a cheap 1KW inverter I pinched from my old van before I sold it. This is back wired to all sockets via a changeover relay. It will run a kettle, mains toaster oh, and a ski waxing iron! Its modified sine wave so its not gonna run a microwave, but I dont have one anyway.

 

Also equipping a van for the use-case is hardly expensive. My extra battery and 3x solar panels cost me 300quid - way less than the cost of a genny. Surely folks can live without a microwave when off grid for a few nights!?

 

Nigel

[Campfos]

This is a good subject to talk about I have the honda Eu 20i which I think is a good bit of kit, it runs my electric kettle and microwave. I don't use at the same time by the way.

I go to a few motor sport events where people use the small two stoke these are really noisy but they are cheap hence the reason people buy them.

In the two years I have had the generator I has about 2 hours run time so don't use it a lot but good to have in case you need to charge a battery or run out of gas.

Like I was out on Sunday with the van and run out of gas and did not have two spanners to change the cylinder so got out the generator I could have my lunch with a cup of coffee. Now put a second spanner in the van now. That won't happen again.

As I think I am well equipped as I have two leisure batteries and a refillable gas cylinder so things still happen like I left the fridge on gas to try it out and this emptied the gas and could not get the regulator of the fixed cylinder.

So just having the generator in the back gives me piece of mind, same as I carry a spare wheel in the back as well.

So it's wrong to say people should not have generators but we have enough of being told what to do.

By the way I would never put solar pannels on a van as I have them on my house and they don't live up to the expections again my own view and I have no desire to go to Europe were the pannels could be of use.

I like touring Scotland where I live.

 

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

aandncaravan - 2016-08-11 12:17 AM

 

 

a) Almost every Generator we have seen/used is unsociable, noisy and often smelly, except the Honda Eu10i, which is unbelievably quiet. Put it under one of the Rain Hoods and you won't hear it running from 3 metres away.

 

Don't classify all Generators in the same bracket because you had a bad experience with a poor one. Almost all are hideous, but the EU10i is a very different piece of kit.....

 

 

b) 1.5 hours every 3 days, the timing of which can be when neighbours are off site, from a super quiet Genny is not exactly the most annoying thing ever?? Very different picture to all those painted above.

 

 

 

I'd agree that if you really NEED one (NEED being the key word in my opinion), then a Honda is the way to go...

 

a) But isn't that the point though Alan? How many campers/campervanners/MHers/caravanners are going to spend the thick end of 8-900(+?)quid on a Honda?

A good proportion of(most) "leisure users" WILL just get a few 100 quids' worth of "..the salesman said it's the same as the Honda....it's only a couple of dBs more than the Honda anyway.." copy. *-)

 

(I know the few that I've come across whilst "camping" seem to have taken that route... :-S )

 

 

b) Again, what proportion of folk, who having opted to buy a petrol fuelled generator to take "camping" ; and then chooses to use a non-hook equipped (quiet, rural?) site/location, would then be considerate enough to only run it, once everyone within earshot had left?...

All the gennys that I've come across whilst camping have all been running over the early-mid morning(kids TVs, Missuses hair dryer?) and again in the evening(TV "soaps"?) periods.

Although, maybe all the Honda genny are quietly buzzing away and we've just been unaware of them or they're being used whilst we're away from the van...? ;-)

 

OT..I can't help thinking that for many "campers", gennys are to them, what petrol strimmers and leaf blowers are to the "..Boys toys" type of gardener... ;-)

[StuartO]

pepe63 - 2016-08-10 7:21 PM

StuartO - 2016-08-10 4:44 PM...We have to be a little bit tolerant of the needs of others sometimes, don't we?

Their "needs" yes....but their "wants"? no, not necessarily ....The vast majority of these supposed "needs" seem to be little more than "wanting" to watch their "soaps" , power the likes of a microwave and/or the missus's hair straighteners and/or their kid's dvd player/computer games... *-) Before anyone posts about how their mate/brother-in-law/a bloke at work, has a portable dialysis machine and/or a mobility scooter etc well again, somewhere with hook-up would probably provide a better charging option.

 

I take your point about the difference between needs and wants and I too have been irritated when someone on a camping field runs one of those small, cheap, very noisy two stroke generators for no apparent pressing reason - but I probably still wouldn't go over and challenge them.  If you did ask politely they might curtail the noise but these days they might just as likely tell you to FO.  In my experience running noisy generator tends to be associated with having tattoos and wearing vests to display your body.  Typically there will be two or more MHs parked together with windbreaks marking out a generous slice of surrounding territory within which lots of BBQs and other stuff will have been unloaded and deployed - oh and some very rowdy kids. 

 

You could try a rational conversation but the better remedy, if you are bothered and can be bothered, is to quietly move yourself.